So is Elon Musk a fraud or not?

I hear all the time that his companies don't even make profits, and that he's just soaking taxpayer money up for income.

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Depends how you look at it.

There is no doubt he is very smart, and some of the stuff he is doing is extremely innovative (SpaceX).

However part of what separates geniuses from guys with huge ideas are that geniuses are able to make it sustainable. Elon has made his businesses sustainable through Government subsidies and hype.

I wouldn't call him a fraud, but he needs to start figuring out how to make these companies sustainable.

that's how science gets done. Government grants.

the real irony is NASA could undoubtedly do it cheaper but dats socializm

who cares. at least he is doing instead of talking and pushing technology advancements

Telsa is still young. It's common for newer companies to take a while before they start making profits.

Dinosaur fuel is going to last forever

isn't*

yes, he's a scammer, but think of it like this.
imagine you could have invested early on in bernie madoff's ponzi scheme and made a shit load of money before he got caught, and imagine if the government had no recourse to take the money out of your ass once madoff was caught. think of all the money that evil bernie madoff would have made you. that would be the equivalent of investing in tesla early on.

(yes i know the government came after the people who netted from madoff's ponzi scheme, that's why i said imagine if they had no recourse to recoup the money from you).

this is like saying stalin figured out how make communism sustainable by wiping out half of the ussr's population. it's not, and neither are any of musk's companies.

he's not making any real advancements, though, he's just subsidizing his ex-wives with government money. he buys rusted out old russian rockets then watches them blow up on the launch pad.

If he makes it to mars what will be your reasoning then

before that his rockets will have to make it off the launch pad.

>Nasa could do it cheaper

This is historically and categorically false though.

SpaceX has alltogether launched, landed and relaunched a rocket(s) in the past. What are you even on about?

I will require a written letter of apology when the time comes

everything he's doing is either funded by taxpayer dollars or under contract with NASA or both.

I know you love to think competition makes things cheaper but he's not competing.

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But that's immaterial. Your assertion was that the cost of his company's work was far in excess of that incured by NASA. It isn't. Quite the contrary it's costed less and than NASA while doing almost as much in the field of rocketry in the last 3 years as Nasa has done in the last 20. Competeion has nothing to do with it. Please do not act smug while making silly arguments. If you want to have a real discussion or make a real point then do so like an adult, please.

>while doing almost as much in the field of rocketry in the last 3 years as Nasa has done in the last 20
those 3 years were built on the product of NASA's previous 20.

or do you seriously believe he reinvented the rocket? I'm not sure why I'm arguing with someone this goddam beefheaded.

Everything is always built on the back of something else, however his intentions and motivations were different from NASA's so he singlemindedly set out to complete a task rather than leaving many incomplete in the experimental stages. I love how you call me beefheaded. You seem to be unable to have a discussion without becoming inflamed or insulting someone else. Why is that?

I've listened to a ton of his interviews. He's the real deal.
I'm all in on this guy. Made $15k on TSLA when it dipped to $180.

Invest in Nexus (NXS) coin, it has links to SpaceX and Elon Musk, is launching rockets and cubit satelittes into space, with plans for a decentralized internet and it's own network it's potentially set to be a monster

Telsa went up an insane amount and made investors millions

>Billionaire businessman who can marry almost any girl in the world
>Marries someone old and... well old
>Divorces him and marries some other dude
>Divorces other dude and goes back to Elon
>Elon takes her back the absolute mad man

Look, he's a billionaire but he's obviously fucjing retarded.

>All pre 2017 videos

SpaceX has launched and landed. Besides progress takes failure

honestly, I am all in on TSLA, and am a fan of spaceX. here are the following news articles I see:
>tesla burning cash like crazy, the business makes no money what a scam!!??
> tesla is setting huge goals! how in the world will they ever ramp production to 500k model3 per year?!??
what the hell do these people think hes doing with all that money? HE IS BUYING INFRASTRUCTURE. (fully automated factories, which is how his margins will blow any other auto out of the water because employees)

additionally, the real master stroke in all of it is that hes publicly admitted he doesnt give a shit about cars. the check mate is once the industry hops on the EV bandwagon tesla will just sell the batteries to all competing car companies.
additionally, they are integrating themselves in power infrastructure in multiple countries aroud the world (AUS, South afrca, US, etc)
China (who IMO will be the biggest market in the world from 2020-2040 because of their economic imperialism tactics i.e. buying all the RE in AUS and farmland in EU) would literally suck his dick for a few million model3s because their air is so fucking bad that its all they can do to make it cleaner not to mention chinese peoples' inexplicable desire for luxury brands.

HE STUDIED BATTERY TECHNOLOGY.. he doesnt give a shit about some electric go-carts... its all about the batteries.

same user

he is literally matching what took the autoindustry the entire 20th century to do, and hes doing it in 10 years. thats a mad capital expenditure. the power grid and train systems in the US werent built overnight, they werent profitable from day 1, and they cost a hell of a lot of money up front to build. infrastructure is expensive, but once its there... thats how you build dynasties

Marketing for a Tesla vendor.

We've went up in Tesla based orders. One year ago, we were producing 1,000 parts per week and have since went up to around 3-4k a week steady. Whether we're fulfilling a contract or they're actually planning on producing this much, I'm not sure, I'm only a numbers guy.

same user
also it seems hes an idiot on the surface for taking her back, but does he avoid alimony payments by remarrying her? I honestly dont know but
> pro tip: probably

The media keeps brainwashing people to think musk invented this or musk invented that when all he is doing is taking current or old tec and selling it like Gold so you buy his bonds and stock. If you care so much that people drive elec vehicles than you should buy from Ford, GM, BMW etc...... So than they would really would go fully electic.

P.S: Electric is not green, nothing green about Nuke energy, coal and gas fired plantes no matter how many pictures of solar the media shows you the world is not even powered by 1 percent green.

If you ask me the future is in Fuel Cells not Mars Vacations.

He's incredibly smart, but his businesses are not sustainable.

Tesla in particular is extremely overvalued -- one day people will realise this.

Elon on subsidies

>"And in fact the incentives give us a relative disadvantage. Tesla has succeeded in spite of the incentives not because of them. Yeah, absolutely. And I should perhaps touch again on this whole notion of - it's almost like over the years there's been all these sort of irritating articles like Tesla survives because of government subsidies and tax credits. It drives me crazy. Here's what those fools don't realize. If Tesla is not alone in the car industry, but all those things would be material if we were the only car company in existence. We are not. There are many car companies. What matters is whether we have a relative advantage in the market

No he's not a fraud. He's just in the process of succeeding or failing. Nobody knows what will happen with his companies in terms of long term profitability.

Kek

What a turbo cuck.

I'm with you. Last few months have been very good to me.