I don't quite understand Francis position on homosexuals in the priesthood. Today it was re-affirmed that those with homosexual tendencies cannot seek to become priests, but a few years earlier he said something along the lines of "who am I to judge people seeking the light of the Lord"?
Also general Francis thread i guess
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>what is backlash
>what is a fallible human leader pretending to be some infallible vicar of Christ trying to please both sides while pleasing none, going back and fourth and making a fool out of himself
Forth*
The Pope isn't infallible. Why do people not get this?
Also OP you've misunderstood it. It was reaffirmed that *practicing* homosexuals shouldn't become priests
Pretty sure it's due to the whole "The Pope is the unquestionable voice of God on Earth and any deviation from his word is Sin" thing.
Francis wants to ban this
Catholics don't believe that, though
Tell that to the Pope, user. Francis doesn't seem to get that.
It's an issue of practicality user.
>be gay in a position of celibacy of only dudes
>surrounded by guys all the time
>closest priest friends will all be men
It's cruel. Celibacy's hard enough without setting yourself up for failure.
t. Former seminarian.
It's a Protestant meme user. The scope of tradition is infallible, not the pope.
The pope saying something Ex cathedra is considered infallible but almost never happens.
Gee maybe from Catholics saying it all the time? Are you denying this?
Those who do are deeply uninformed. Not a surprise that they excise given the state of teaching in the church right now, but it's flatly heretical to say the pope is infallible in general.
Doesn't help that there's tons of meme Catholics whose only experience of the faith is going to Mass twice a year and never talking to a priest or other learned people of the church.
And God forbid anybody reads the documents put out by the Magisterium or Doctors of the Church.
The vast majority of catholics don't even understand the doctrines of their own religion so they go around spreading misinformation like this.
There were only two statements the Pope had ever made which claimed infallibility. Don't remember which though
Common misconception among catholics and non-Catholics
>There were only two statements the Pope had ever made which claimed infallibility
...so then the Pope is believed to be infallible on certain statements.
Not as bad as people make him out to be. People twist the things he says because he actually acts like a Christian is supposed to when they're used to hateful agenda driven people who want to use the church for their own desires.
He actually hasn't deviated at all from Catholic doctrine, he just strips away the bullshit and people like to cling to their misconceptions.
2 statements in the entire history of the church. The pope is not inherently infallible, but is capable of making an infallible statement if certain conditions are met.
Papal infallibility doesn't mean what most people, including most Catholics, think it means.
What does it mean?
i guess that isn't inherently worse than protestants thinking that the writings of biblical authors are infallible
>Catholics
Not "everything the Pope says is infallible", as most Protestants (and poorly catechized Catholics) say.
>doesn't he recieve diviniations from God
oh god I wish Catholics actually did use urim and thummim like in the OT. at least Jews should start doing it again.
So he's not infallible, just best at remembering doctrine basically?
>Catholics are redditors
Makes sense
Sort...of?
I think there's a little more nuance to it than that but fundamentally it's pretty boring and not at all interesting like "Muh infallible leader's word is God's" would be.
What did he mean by this?
>most redditors are American
>most Americans are Protestants
>ergo most redditors are Protestants
That he's following Christ's example of caritas?
And this?
>hailing a genocidal, atheistic ideology
>following Christ
Catholics everyone.
>he knows god better
>god
Jesus was, quite literally, a true communist.
what exactly is wrong with this? what i really don't understand is why they needed permission for that
>communism is Stalinism
He was talking about the kind of communism practiced by early Christians, obviously.
They've done it unofficially for ages.
>obviously
Right, sorry, it's much likelier that the Catholic Church is all for gulags and mass starvation.
Abortion in bad will results in excommunication latae sententiae. A regular priest cannot absolve that normally, iirc bishop's agreement is needed.
Now with a blanket permission they can do that normally.
He didn't grant them anything; that's an editorialized title.
Abortion has always been a sin that could be forgiven with your priest during confession. However, it's also a sin that technically results in excommunication, though in an implicit rather than explicit sense. In most countries, the priests were rightfully recognized as being able to life excommunication in situations like this, but in some regions and diocese, Bishops attempted to mandate that a believer would have to request the excommunication be lifted by the Bishop himself.
As with a lot of "Pope Francis declares [X[" headlines, it's not actually Francis creating anything new, but rather reaffirming already declared Vatican law.
>pope pushing for gay acceptance
>lol bro not really trust me i know better than my leader
Catholics everyone.
The official stance has always been that a homo who has been chaste for a couple years can enter seminary. The issue has never been "Same Sex Attraction" (church's phrase for non practicing homo). Church recognizes it's possible homos are born with their attraction. But it is the will of God that all homos abstain from homosexual behavior and live a chaste life.
Chaste homos can be priest
Unchaste homos are both sinners (sodomy=sin) and can't be priests because they aren't chaste, not really because they're unchaste homos but just because they aren't chaste
There are also canon law provisions to suspend homo priests who engage in homo behavior/sex. But the same provisions apply to priests who break other rules--hetero sex, child buggery, breaking seal of confession, and other violations of Canon law.
Hope that helps
What? I'm saying that people who claim "Pope Francis is going against Catholic tradition!" are full of shit. Francis is reminding people that the Church is built on the foundations of compassion, acceptance, and forgiveness, and he does so by highlighting the laws supporting those concepts that others seem to forget.
Francis is the Pope I'm proudest of from my lifetime.
I doubt that you are actually catholic. They went from 26% of the us population to 16% within a few years. People don't like him
Expanding on this, the Church speculates that it is possible Homosexuality/Same Sex Attraction happens from birth/environment and isn't a choice. Thus it doesn't make sense to ban a non practicing homo from priesthood. As long as they aren't committing the sin of sodomy by acting on their disordered sexual desire, they can be priests.
Disclaimer for following: I am Catholic and I support the Church but this is the harsh truth
A significant percentage (much much more than the rate of the normal male populace) of Catholic priests is gay. A large portion of these are active sodomites, and many of these are sodomites with their fellow priests. Arguably this is implicitly encouraged by the Church structure. The Church knows some of its boys are up to no good, but its very important to their image that they project an image that the great majority of priests are celibate. Sodomite priests know this and since, in an imperfect way, they too love the Church, they recognize that the best way to protect the Church's image is just to sodomize other gay priests. Since its in all the sodomite priests' best interest to keep it secret, it all works out quite tidily. This is essentially the "gay lobby" documented by the Vatican itself. It was also studied in American seminaries by the Vatican. They found that there was a persistent gay subculture in the majority of seminaries. The normal priests even knew vaguely what was going on. The problem is that many in positions of authority such as seminary rectors, bishops, and Vatican prelates are also part of the sodomite lobby. They protect and promote their own. Its in the interest of a sodomite priest who has a sodomite bishop to fuck him to move up in his priestly career.
Its all quite twisted, and arguably this secret gay subculture is part of why the child abuse crisis became such a big deal. They dealt with it the same way they dealt with gays. Indeed, many gay priests started off with a pederastic relationship
People are, and always have been, idiots who don't care about dogma.
Mote like people don't like the active homosexuality and pedophilia in the church and don't like the new pope trying to mess with the demographics and politics in the US
with their parish priest, then moved up to the seminary and continued such relations with the rector and other seminarians. Its a long term thing.
Most of the child abuse (70+%) involved 12-17 year olds. Basically the priests had a twink fetish for the young sodomites of their parish. The problem presumably was that a lot of these weren't gay and later felt weird about it and decided to expose their abuser. The ones who liked it probably became priests themselves.
Now of course there were some more true-to-form pedophiles who went after smaller children, I would argue they were the exception though. The gay subculture wasn't related to those guys, they were just evil predators who took advantage of the power position the priesthood offered. They were true monsters.
The other category (called hebephilia) was from gay priests looking for fresh boipussi and picking the wrong (ie not gay) targets.
This culture of dominating young teens by the way is common in patriarchal societies like Catholicism, Ancient Greece and Rome, and Islam.
That drop is just continuation of a trend under all previous popes.
Catholicism is declining in rich countries because they're rich, not because of specific Church policy or a given Pope's personality or even because of the child abuse coverup.
And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 19:24
Just as the rich aristocracy throughout Christian history has always been degenerate nominal Christians with like 10% genuine believers sprinkled in (who were humiliated by their aristocrat peers), the modern aristocracy (North America+Western Europe) on a global scale is no longer Christian. The economy is global now so the peasantry is the Third World, and they are more Catholic by the day.
The Church would be foolish to modify its dogmas regarding sexual issues to please a shrinking demographic (rich Westerns) when Third Worlders fully agree and get along with it.
There's a purge in a lot of seminaries though. When I was studying for priesthood (discerned out, was never ordained) when the Priests found sodomites (who were a thing) they kicked them out to the curb almost instantly. No second chances. Those who had sex with a girl were removed from the program for at least a year to get their shit together.
Sometimes it verges on paranoia. I was questioned for being gay once just because another seminarian and I were close friends. Then they found out that there was an actual homosexual none of them had been paying attention too and got rid of him.
Unfortunately not gay priests don't seem to be very good at finding the gay ones.
And unlike what another user said above it is not the case in most dioceses that you can be openly gay and get ordained. For most Bishops putting a gay man in the priesthood and telling him not to fall in love/be a sodomite is like locking a starving kid in a candy store and telling them not to have any.
It's setting him up for failure and is effectively leading them to potential sin.
That's good to hear. I hope they are successful. I can see the argument of not ordaining, but I think if one has a genuine ability to avoid the sin then he should be at least strongly considered, which I am guessing is probably what they do. But I think "one strike and you're out" is probably the right policy as well. Just like cheating on a spouse one offense is a strong indicator for future offenses.
>all these mad amerilards about the pope reforcing the positive views of christ
Kek. Reminder that christ always talked about forgiving, turning the other cheek and lwtring god be the one to judge.
Amerimads are truly the worst
The VIDF/Vatican PR team out in force today.
0.05 Vatican Schekels were deposited into your account.
Pope bless.
>Catholics defending their faith
Hah what a bunch of shills
>Catholics not defending the faith
Hah the 'church' is nothing left! Papists BTFO
Well done Martin.
Also;
>Vatican Sheckels
Come now. You're better than this. At least be more creative than stale /pol/ memes.
I went to a publicly funded Catholic school as a teenager and I remember all the devoutly Christian kids did shit in grades 10-12 religion. When you actually learned about Christianity
Most Christians don't know jack shit about their own religion and think they can ignore like 99% of Jesus said as long as they hate gays and abortions