Alternative History Thread

me lol, that's the region I live in too
I think Iceland or something is fucked up but here

Thanks man.

Napoleon is exiled to Louisiana where he builds up a gathering and forms "Le Grande Louisiane" as a separate nation from the United States after fighting a war between them, Mexico, and Canada to a lesser extent

Napoleon did want to escape to the United States after Waterloo, historically.

I like this scenario. Louisiana would have been the key port with rich farmland to the north. Would there have been an inevatable conflict between the OG Anglosphere and Nap-Francosphere states?

Bienvenue à Grande Bretagne, mes amis!

>"Arctica"
lol

Clearly some neckbeard who's spent too much time with vidya, and none with an actual book.

>Any future world where half of California is not under the sea

0/10

Does anyone know if there's a 1914 version of this anywhere?

>Vikings establish a permanent settlement in the Americas and relations with nordic mainland end gradually. The new world vikings develop in isolation over centuries and form a kingdom with local indians in the northeast (Iroquois).

...

I thought about sinking Florida but then I thought, fuck it leave it with the South

Aztecs get disease immunity, iron weapons/armors and cannons.

Irene of Athens and Charlemange marry. Due to Frankish tradition of dividing lands, Europe becomes a shattered shit fest in which Islam makes significant forays into.

This is the premise sort of, of my comic.

Here's mine.

I'm pretty autistic and think about this shit alot

The idea is Britain allied Germany in 1909 , hoping to prevent further German colonial expansion by attempting to improve German relations with France through Britain, and economically tie Britain to Germany to make them have influence over them.

The plan failed, as when war broke out in 1914, Germany pressured Britain into joining. Germany quickly overwhelmed france, and won the war in the east in 1916. The following peace treaty gave Germany control of much African territory, as well as Portugal and england.

The UK has fallen behind in both military and economy, with Germany's many eastern puppet states making it the most powerful nation on earth.

Throughout the 20's and 30's, the US built up its army to be comparable to that of Germany's, as well as the Pacific and Atlantic Fleet.

The British, hoping to be able to have an advantage in a war with the US, annexed the Panama canal in a move that almost lead to war in 1942.

Nuclear Weapons are not developed. Rather, huge spending goes into militaries.

It is now 1958. Border conflicts across the Canadian American Border have caused high tensions.

In Austria Hungary, a national series of revolts have created a huge civil war in the region, where various Czech and Slavic seperatists have brought the nation to its knees. Germany has been futile in its attempts to control the region, and has fallen into much debt to the US. Increasing Nationalism in Germany and Britain have put people more in favour of a war with the US than ever. Fearing this, The US has created a pact with the Republic of China, France and Russia.

unrealistic, i know.

I like it so far. Just a few things to elaborate on
What happened to Russia in WWI?
Why would the US and UK have any animosity?
Which side is Japan on? Neutral?

Japan was allied with the UK up until the early late 20's

the UK picked the US over them eventually, so I suppose in that anons world the roles would be reversed and the alliance would have continued

>what happened to russia?
They were forced to give Finland, the Baltics, Belarus, Ukraine and poland independence. The German and British army however intervened to destroy the Communist uprisings, and restored Nicholas to the throne (the war ended in 1916).

Russia's constitution was rewritten by Germany and Britain to give people further rights and encourage democracy. As a result, many of the population did not feel much hatred to Britain and Germany.

Russia in this time has begun to be modernized due to heavy American investment to challenge German dominance in Europe.

>Why would the US and UK have any animosity?
UK is a close ally of Germany and America's main rival in trade and industry, with both having roughly equal economies. Due to US and Russian funding of rebels in Austria, and british and german funding of Austria's government, the US feels the UK are an opponent to the US, though these feelings are not so strong in Britain. Britain's government feels intimidated by Germany, and generally follows their military expeditions out of fear of being isolated, and would ideally like to become closer to the US and russia, though the US has more or less reduced partnership with the UK in protest of its imperialism in Africa and India.

>Which side is Japan on?
Japan is a close ally of the UK, though japan's annexing of manchuria increased tensions and the UK has attempted to distance themselves from it. The US has encouraged the Japanese in many situations over the past 40 years, in an attempt to win their favour to challenge British Naval dominance in the Pacific, though the Japanese would ideally hope to be allies of both. In a war, they would attempt to maintain nreutrality, though would likely associate with whoever is an enemy of China.

Yeah, the alliance more or less remained, though Japan is a friend of both, and reliant in resources from both.

Literally my ideal world is one where the Native Americans have disease immunity. That's it. That's literally it. It would be a perfect world.

It wouldn't have changed anything.

They still would've gotten tossed around due to literally being in the Stone age at the same time the Europeans were using guns. It would've taken longer but it really wouldn't change that much.

I can't understand why America let Britain annex Panama without going to war. Panama was among other things, like Cuba, one of America's wetdreams. A quick and easy way to move its navy and supplies between east and west without going overland. America was still a believer in naval power projection too. Also I imagine in this scenario a quick fall for Canada and India as a land invasion crushes the former and a Russian and American helped rebellion hits the latter. The rebellion especially sounds cool since in this scenario the Great Game never ends and this rebellion is its climax.

No, there would be immeasurably more spics. That's a really shitty world.

>I can't understand why America let Britain annex Panama without going to war
So, basically (i've actually talked about this idea of mine a lot online, stupid I know)

The UK annexed the territory when America was in a particularly bad state in 1942 and the army had to be cut down. In a war between Britain and Germany, America at the time couldn't have done anything and British and German forces would begin arriving in Newfoundland quickly, so the US would have to occupy Canada fast, which is even harder as at any given time, around 200,000 British and German troops are stationed in Canada, with heavy fortifications along the eastern canadian border known as the Ottawa line.

Russia decided not to take action as their ally in the US was in a terrible state for war, and it still takes much time for Russia to mobilize, in which time the Ukrainenian, polish and German armies can take Moscow and damage the control of russian administration.

The UK realized thizs would damage relatiuons with the US so appeased them by rejecting the Nationalization of it later, and opening it without bias.

A Treaty was signed to return it to Panama in 1950, stating it'll be part of an independant Panama in 1960. The Uk used its excuse to annex it through a communist uprising in the region, something Russia supported at the time also.

>North America the same kind of mixed race tribal shithole as much of S America is

no thanks

That makes a bit more sense I guess. Why was America in a bad state though? Also, does war end up happening? How do you think it would go?

>Jin Roh
Good times, man, good times.

>canada
>most powerful nations

I like how in all these maps Scotland and Ireland join together, usually with Wales too. Because they're both """"celtic"""" presumably?

>Lakeland
>Upper Midwest, New England, and Eastern Canada as one nation
>mfw this will never happen

America was in a bad state primarily due to a similar event to the wallstreet crash in the 30's, except most attempts to increase employment fail and the lower corporate taxes imposed simply make the country dependent on monopolies, and the government almost becomes an oligarchy of corporations. Truman eventually helps the US Economy though increased industrial demand in volunteers in the Chinese Civil war through the late 40's, and are now an emerging power.

>also, does the war end up happening?
Yeah. i haven't developed much on it though.

Basically, russian minorities begin to protest against the finnish government in st petersburg, and begin to strike and protest in the streets until they're treated better by the finnish government. Russia uses this to demand Finland respect their demands and give the south a referendum. Finland refuses, and Russia occupies the City quickly. Germany demands withdrawal. A meeting between world leaders is set up in London to discuss the matter. Russia, The US, France and China storm out in anger and refuse to attend further meetings after Germany uses its eastern european puppet states to politically isolate russia on the matter. Russia's president, France's and the US (respectively Kerensky, Auriol and Eisenhower) agree to back one another up.

A plan is formed for France (now with a large army and higher population) to quickly invade Germany while their Divisions are focused in russia, while the US uses its atlantic fleet to attack the British, and prevent more troops reaching Canada and isolating the 200,000 already there. Russia will ignore Finland due to its small army and move to set up defences against the incoming Germans. China will move into British Indochina and the Raj and attempt to quickly secure strategic points such as Hanoi and Calcutta before the Indian army can mobilize.

>more native adaptions instead of a dull imposed culture
HNNNNNNNGGGG

...

The UN (America) declares the Suez Canal a British embassy, thus allowing them passage to and thro
America does not get involved with the Falklands war, Argentina is invaded by Britain and Pinochet, the junta is hung, Chile gets half of Argentina and becomes a memeber of commonwealth.

The American stock market is stopped by scandals about the big owners so people don't readily invest. Germany still collapses and hitler is elected , but the entente stops them exceeding the Versailles limits. Due to the other powers still being so strong hitler cannot foresee war and humbly steps down, the NSDAP collapses due to infighting and Germany is broken back up into northern German confederation, and that other place

>it's fine if none of my outfit makes any sense because culture

>Detroit, Green Bay and Vincennes not included
GTFO.

I hope there's a reality where this happened.
I hope I can visit it one day.

Under what conditions would it have been possible for Sub-Saharan Africans to dominate the world as the Europeans have?

Nuclear holocaust of Europe, Asia, and the Americas

>Canada/Britain vs USA
Very unrealistic, as they are natural allies. Why should Britain annex Panama when together it and the US could block its access for Germans? Britain as a bullied wimpy vassal state of Germany just doesn't make sense.

>all those Africans moving to the Colonial motherland
lel

>lush continent
>resource rich
>the literal homeland of humanity so they had the longest period of existence undisturbed by long travel

harder conditions, doesn't seem like they had to adapt much

Also, assuming everything was 'normal' up until 1909, Canada would sooner become independent and fall into the American sphere (under its own direction) than be a large, weak and porous punching bag for American aggression or some staging ground for British troops. Invasion and a puppet government (annexation?) in that scenario is just the very obvious outcome. Canadian politicians were smarter than fierce loyalty to Britain. That is, if push came to shove anyway.

It had become largely autonomous (a "Dominion", NOT a direct colony) from Britain in 1867.

Yes, I'm a LEAF. I know it's alternate history fun stuff here, but it really stretching the bounds of possibility too far.

>China will move into British Indochina and the Raj and attempt to quickly secure strategic points such as Hanoi and Calcutta before the Indian army can mobilize.
So is China not communist then? The nationalists won the civil war? Also, would the Chinese not be caught up in another quarrel with the Japanese?

Personally I imagine Canada would be crushed and not putting up much resistance afterwards, China would be wrecked by the Japanese(Unless they had modernized by now), and France would barely hold on as they are attacked from almost all sides. The big thing though is Africa. That looks like a huge bulwark with human resources ready to be tapped. Nearly the entire continent is united in a single coalition. Getting troops around navally in the Indian Ocean is near impossible because of it. France's colonies which would be quickly destroyed under the might of the combined British-German colonial forces.

There'd be wave upon wave of rebellions in India as the Indian Independence Movement(Which presumably still exists in this timeline) picks up steam. Russia might also use its contingency plan from the Great Game. This plan was an attempt to try and raise a jihad against Britains rulers and recreate the Mughal Empire, though obviously more under their control. Central Asians tribes would be armed up and told to plunder whatever loot they could get in India. The problem with this is that by now, Hindu Nationalism was a thing so Hindus and Sikhs would go on the side of the British. So instead of recreating the Mughal Empire and going the Jihad route, I'd imagine Russia attempting a full-scale invasion of India with its southern troops. Russian spies in India would attempt to cause a mass nationwide rebellion against the British. Crackdown against this would lead to Gandhi and other member of the Indian National Congress to get killed, only stoking the rebellion even further.

I'm not too good with alt-history though, so I'm not sure about this.

>as they are natural allies
Not really prior to ww2.
>Why should Britain annex Panama when together it and the US could block its access for Germans?
Because Britain is both intimidated and loyal to Germany, but pursues trade interests to benefit themselves using Germany's protection.

>Britain as a bullied wimpy vassal state of Germany just doesn't make sense.
They're not vassals, just the lesser partner in the alliance. Germany and its eastern puppets have complete dominance in Europe, as well as a strong navy that's slightly less powerful than Britain's, but a threat still.

> Canada would sooner become independent and fall into the American sphere (under its own direction) than be a large, weak and porous punching bag for American aggression or some staging ground for British troops
I'll admit I don't know much about Canadian politics, but here are some things

>I detailed a previous time, britain increases the loyalty of its dominions through allowing them to be more or less self governing, just with a common military and under one flag. This was also employed in parts of Africa to reduce revolts.

Anyways, Canada is basically in no position to say no to britain, as britain has a far larger military, as well as influence in their politics

The US in this universe is not as powerful IRL either, and the troop build up has existed in the past 3 years.

Green sahara (this is more to prevent a giant barrier like the sahara desert from hindering trade/contact interlinks as it did in real history)
No slave trade (this would mean the Caliphate can't have formed)
Active mercantile trading empires beyond the coastal Swahili or West African kingdoms i.e Ghana, Mali, and Songhai
No cataracts in the Nile River (this would be huge for East Africa).

>canada

lmao

Hosers

>So is China not communist then? The nationalists won the civil war?
Yes, though Tibet is under British protection (though only towards tibet, tibet doesn't have to follow them, And Mongolia is in Russia's influence.

>Personally I imagine Canada would be crushed and not putting up much resistance afterwards
Yes, it would, so the Anglo-German plan is to get troops to newfoundland after achieving naval superiority, then make plans to retake Canada, as well as fight a pacific war with the Americans. Though an actual invasion of the US will be very difficult for them, but combined British German numbers are about 40% larger than America's.

> China would be wrecked by the Japanese(Unless they had modernized by now)

They would, China recognizes this so is prepared to fight a guerilla war if Japan does join Britain and Germany, but they may swing either way. But most predict them to stay neutral.

>and France would barely hold on as they are attacked from almost all sides
Basically just Germany as Britain can't make a naval attack on France. The french Coast is well fortified. France plans to repeat ww1 and fight on defence, and attempt to win favour with North Italy and convince them to join.

France's population is now around 60 million at this point though, as there was a huge baby boom in the 40's from a strong economy, so fighting Germany is nowhere near as daunting as it was in ww1.

Yeah, Africa is more or less totally in Anglo-German hands.

>There'd be wave upon wave of rebellions in India as the Indian Independence Movement(Which presumably still exists in this timeline) picks up steam.

Basically all of your 2nd paragraph is what i imagined. It does, though Britain has fought guerilla wars in the past. Britain also composes the army from the far more loyal sikh community to help control hindus and Muslims. While the Raj is technically self governing, britain tries to make sure the politics are dominated by sikhs.

Canada already WAS self-governing for 50 years by the time of your timeline. There were no British colonial troops in Canada from about 1830 on. Some officers, yes, but that's it. The British monarchy was only tolerated and feted as something to differentiate from the US. No actual power or influence. Only a small population has any 'true' loyalty, and this did not necessarily include all politicians. A 'homegrown' attitude was already quite strong by this point. You're also underestimating... the continent is fucking huge. By train in those days it would still over a weak to get to the west coast, and rail lines are easily sabotaged. By foot or horse, we're talking months even with no resistance or intervention, as their most likely would be.

The word 'quagmire' springs to mind. If anything, in this scenario the average Canadian is likely to welcome American troops with flowers and pancakes for liberating them.

Africa at the time had a low population, nearly no infrastructure, nearly no human development, and was quite ethnically fractious.

It's fascinating to see you guys assume that colonial subjects are just going to joyfully obey imperial German orders to be cannon fodder.

Well, they can't exactly put up any resistance, and the UK holds more influence over them politically

so in short, who gives a shit.

>
The word 'quagmire' springs to mind. If anything, in this scenario the average Canadian is likely to welcome American troops with flowers and pancakes for liberating them.
The UK aren't the fucking USSR in this universe, no matter how oppressed you feel.

They're not paying taxes to britain or having british soldiers rape their wives.

>the UK holds more influence over them politically
Why? How?

In short, completely unrealistic fantasy wankery..

Which might be fine if there was some believable element of events here.

>They're not paying taxes to britain or having british soldiers rape their wives.
Then why should they welcome hordes of aggressive and arrogant foreign troops and get to foot the bill? It wouldn't happen, m8.

>Why? How?
Because Britain and Canada in this universe are still linked in the commonwealth, trade and history.

>Then why should they welcome hordes of aggressive and arrogant foreign troops and get to foot the bill? It wouldn't happen, m8.
You're not paying for shit. They're there for YOUR defence.

What's canada do? Riot their ally and trade partner has sent troops to defend them from a country hoping to invade them?

Canadian nationalism is the funniest thing ever

>It's fascinating to see you assume that colonial subjects are just going to joyfully obey imperial German orders to be cannon fodder.

I never said that though, all I said is that Africa would be hard to invade and that colonial troops of British and Germany would crush French colonies. I actually do believe that there would be mutinies and rebellions.

>nationalism is the funniest thing ever
This guy gets it.

>Taipei

Noted singer Jeff Mangum successfully perfects time travel and uses it to go back in time and rescue Anne Frank. Being a horny 14 year old stuck in attic and obsessed with celebrities, Anne gives in to Jeff's advances and statutory rape ensues.

Nine months later, Jeff has a very pregnant Anne waddle onto stag and give birth in front of the entire audience to the song Communist Daughter during a sold out Neutral Milk Hotel show in Atlanta, Georgia, revealing her existence to the world. The show receives critical acclaim as one of the best musical performances of all time.

The Anne Frank House in Amsterdam immediately capitalizes on this by getting her diary's copyright extended another 49 years on account of her still being alive and are able to keep milking money off the stupid goyim who keep buying the book, /mu/ experiences record traffic that destroys the servers. President Donald Trump bequeaths United States citizenship to Anne on top of Trump Tower, /pol/ rages to the point of being on actual suicide watch, and the Georgia State Legislature spends endless hours arguing over whether statutory rape where the victim is technically 40 years older than the perpetrator is a crime or no.

>stag

Meant to say "the stage"

-Siege of Constantinople was successful.
-Franks got destroyed in 732
-Caliphate declares himself as new Roman emperor
-Elbe-Danube border established

Also Aztecs

youtube.com/watch?v=mf9jJx0NSjw&t=803s

>stan

...

accurate

that makes me uncomfortable but I also really like it

>tfw no one notices the glorious empire of Lesotho

Water currents develop differently so you can sail from golden horn to Columbia Brazil in a few years, this trading would mean they could put up a bigger fight, and the Spanish wouldn't dominate the Americas as quickly thus slowing down advancements in Spain slowing down industrialisation
America had plans in the 30's to wipe England out, consisted of occupying Canada and virus bombing England if I'm not mistaken

If you want it so hard you should have become a physicist instead of a historian

You forgot the Caliphate falls apart a century later when the same infighting that fractured the Abbasids takes place.

>Federation of Independent Islands
>Gangland
>GRANDE Colombia
>New California
>Lakeland
>Shithole
>New Russia
>Taipei

I legit think I got brain cancer from these names

I'm not saying this as some 'Canadian nationalist', I'm telling you your little fantasy world is overtly implausible.

What does Canada need from Britain? Shortbread cookies?

>You're not paying for shit. They're there for YOUR defence.
What you don't understand is that Canadians are far more likely to WANT to be an American puppet than a British puppet.

>America had plans in the 30's to wipe England out, consisted of occupying Canada and virus bombing England if I'm not mistaken
This is the kind of thing military planners do just for fun, 'what if' scenarios, contingency plans. It's how senior officers earn brownie points in military colleges. It was never a serious 'actual' plan.

Would it have been possible for the few Bulgars who migrated to Italy to survive as an ethnic group? There were 700 by the time they arrived, when originally there were 9000. If the Bulgars hadnt trusted the Bavarians and just migrated to Italy without trying to go into Bavaria, meaning they kept the original 9000, would they survive as an ethnic group? Could they rise into a position of power?

Imagine what would have happened if Athens one the war and Pericles lived. He would have led the new frontier on an Athenian empire ten times greater than Rome ever was. The world was robbed of brilliance when the plague killed Pericles

After the Eugenics Wars of the 1990s a group of genetically altered humans, ruthless dictators and rulers in their time, escape earth for the safety of space and go into hypersleep, waiting...

>Muslims colonize the world
>eventually become liberalized
>get blamed for all evils in history but the evils of others are ignored
>refugee crisis happens in Scandinavia
>muscular blond men rape brown women while cucked Arabs don't do anything to avoid being labeled "paganphobic" and "racist."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_werde_hier_sein_im_Sonnenschein_und_im_Schatten

> The novel presents an alternate history of Switzerland in which Lenin did not leave Switzerland for Russia in 1917 to bring about the Russian Revolution. Instead, Lenin's revolution took place in Switzerland, transforming it into the Swiss Socialist Republic, a Communist state engaged in the colonisation of Africa and in perpetual war with other totalitarian empires, notably with a federation of British and German fascists. The plot of the novel, set in around 2010, traces a black Swiss political commissar's journey to the heart of the empire, the gigantic alpine Reduit, where he is to arrest Brazhinsky, an enemy of the state.
>The novel has been translated into Russian, Croatian, Swedish, Polish, Bulgarian, Korean, French, Norwegian and Dutch.

Nazi Germany doesn't invade Poland and focuses on proxy wars in the Islamic world.

Many Muslims see Hitler as a great man, imagine if Hitler focused heavily on Muslims rising up and fighting for him.

Albert Speer even wrote in his memoir "Inside the Third Reich" that Hitler saw Christianity was spineless and Islam as a religion of men more suitable for the German temperament.

Hitler eventually does start WW2 but there are huge Muslim uprisings against the British, French, and Soviets.

Hitler wins and slowly implements the Islamic religion in Europe, Africa, West Asia, and South America.

American Nazi sympathizers convert to Islam en mass and Malcolm X just becomes an atheist.

This is so wrong in so many ways I'm not sure where to begin.

Leon Trosovsky declare war the Axis and conquered most of them pic related.

Now August 14 1947 and WW3 is about to begin.

>not sure where to begin
Make a video then.

> paganphobic
I'm gonna use that word from now on

Yep. The OP is an autist with no understanding of how people work. Even if fantasy, it should be half-believable...

Buddhism has it more successful in spreading itself toward west and becomes a majority religion of Persia despite a lot of pressure from Zoroastrian clerics.

Buddhism eventually reaches Roman Empire and becomes popular there as well and magically making Christianity and Islam not a thing

omg

please, do tell

>Did you not notice Stan and Manchuria+++?

It would have changed plenty.

>didn't notice the Union of the Dick, Pubes, and Balls or the Glorious Empire of Lesotho