I've been wondering about this for some time and I figured you fags would know better than anyone else.
How were wars fought before uniforms became commonplace? How did opposing armies maintain any cohesion in open battles? I imagine that it wouldn't be impossibly chaotic among formations such as pike squares or phalanxes, but what about Medieval armies, or warfare in tribal Northern Europe or the Americas, and so on? How did they know who was on their side and who wasn't?
North America and Southern Africa wars never got much beyond tribal dance fights, in fact the reason why Shaka conquers is because he tells his Soldiers to actually kill and not just wound.
In Europe you would have battle standards, those big flags you see to tell you who's on who's side
In middle America it was mainly tribal and slave raids, but when you did they would presumably be wearing different feathers to tell each other apart
I can see where a standard would be useful for identifying different units before fighting actually commences, but I can't imagine how people made any sense of the situation once engaged in melee without uniforms.
>be german dude innaforest
>my tribe and your tribe want to fight
>maybe a few hundred guys on each side
>maybe I can at least recognize all of the few hundred men from my tribe
>in melee though, where half a second is the difference between life and death
>blood, dirt, whatever covering up faces
How am I not going to kill any of my own guys?
pic semi related
Perhaps they simply knew what kind of armor most of the guys in their squad were wearing. And most allies probably wont be facing towards you, instead of towards the enemy.
That's all mere speculation though. Interesting question.
I'm sure there was some amount killing your guys by mistake though.
They formed shieldwalls you dip.
They're not gonna do a movie style moshpit
The shieldwall would be focused around nobles who payed the men who would keep a banner around for cordination.
Those "tribal dance fights," when you look at how fucking frequently they had them, resulted in higher casualty rates than modern warfare, even though your odds of being hurt or killed in any one single "battle" were very low.
(especially when you also factor in nighttime raids and such)
I think the Japanese used to carry flags attached to their back so that they could see who was who in battle. Not sure if it was a universal thing tho.
battlecrys helped I guess.
He's talking about Germans, not civilised men.
Or men at all, for that matter.
small scale tribal warfare
>you literally know every single one of your comrades by their face and gear
organized state-scale warfare
>you fight in formations such as pike squares or phalanxes
it's a battle, not a goddamn pub brawl.
>In middle America it was mainly tribal and slave raids, but when you did they would presumably be wearing different feathers to tell each other apart
Mesoamerica warfare investigator here. It was beyong slave raids, Mesoamerican warfare was more about securing or getting access to economic interests and increasing political influence to increase the power of a city-state. Sieges were mostly common which open field battles not as common since they preferred ambushing and guerilla style warfare. To gain access to certain goods a city would wage war on them to make them a tributary state, vassal or conquer them outright. Slaves were acquired either from war captives of enemy combatants or through punishments (rapists, murderers etc) or debt (losing bets).
As for how they told each other apart, most mesoamerican ethnicities had different hairstyles, headdresses and in some cases uniforms. So it was rather easy to distinguish who is who.
If HEMA group fights are anything to go by, you often end up actually taking a second to guess whether the other guy is on your side or not. It happens to people on both sides, so pretty often you actually just respond to people attacking you rather than picking any fights yourself - at least when you're already confused.
Or everyone just wears differently coloured vests or something.
If the guy is facing you, he's an enemy
Plus there were often regional differences in arms and armour that a warrior could spot
YEAH because bacteria exist even if Europeans haven't arrived yet, but then again they had shit diet and other diseases lying about so it's not surprising they died
>Mesoamerica warfare investigator her
Does that mean lector liber, or do you have actual qualifications
Tell that to the Jaegers
It's not like movies where everyone goes for a solo, you'd clash lines, and the people behind you would stay behind you and stab at the opponent. Or if you died take your place/ rout
>Mesoamerica warfare investigator here
I read that as Mesoamerica warfare instigator here for a second and couldn't stop laughing for 5 minutes
Couldn't they have just worn different colors? Like one side wears purple and the other yellow and those colors correspond with their kingdom or whatever.
The concept of nation states is very new so no, you would where what your duke wore, in the times where the duke could stay loyal, rebel to the other side, or declare his own kingdom
when the Celtic Gauls sacked Rome early in the 4th Century BC.......they fought naked.
He said kingdom not nation.
Albeit nations get mentioned in the old testament already..
Whatever the duke did he had a swath of land and you wore its colours.
They surely painted themselves though.
>citation needed
>le ebbin berzerker mayamay
Lindy pls go
that sounds fucking gay as fuck
People fought in formations.
You would know the people in your block of men and the assumption is the guy in charge can recognise what blobs of men are friendly.
You can literally ask someone, just be screaming your own "sides" name or other identifier. (This happens in re-enactment battles, although friendly stabs do still occur).
There is precedent for people to wear identifying features pre-uniform, I recall that during the lifting of the siege of Vienna (of Winged Hussar charge fame) there were Tartars on both sides, with the non-Ottoman Tartars identifying themselves with sprigs tied to their helmets.
There is quite a good chance the other side is speaking a different or at least noticeably accented language.
I was actually reading about this yeaterday. Early on (pre civilization) it was knowing your buddies and their faces. When armies got larger, it became a problem and people would sometimes kill men on their side but language and a similar set of armor along with flags helped to distinguish who was who. In the middle ages, a coat of arms or design was used on your shield, draped iver you in a cloth, flown as a flag, and draped on your horse. If toy had a helment that blocked your face, a plume could be put on top in a specific color.
>Tldr early it was with faces similar armor, and just having a line to charge into, knowing where your troops are, later you flew flags and decorated yourself.
#notall
Clothing has always been a sign of wealth. Some of the Gaulish nobles probadly wore better armor than the Romans had at that time. Gauls are also often given credit for inventing chainmail, so they weren't all naked woodsniggers.
ever seen kids playing football? or fans fighting after a football match?