So who did Veeky Forums side with? And why was it Caesar's Legion?

Went independent, but helped the NCR/picked the NCR side in most missions.

Caesar's policies would have been helpful circa Fallout 1, but he's unnecessary now. For all his talk of a "society prepared for the wasteland", the NCR seem pretty same well-suited for that. Their issues are more political than logistic, and that can be fixed with some good old protagonist wetwork.

It was the legion, every single game. They have the perfect combination of long range planning that is objectively correct and being the most fun faction to play alongside. Now let's all agree that Legion>NCR>Yes Man>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>House

>History
>&
>Humanities

Video Games are Art
Therefore they fall under the Humanities
Checkmate Mods

>Video Games are Art

what did he mean by this, Veeky Forums?

Yes Man.

Either it's the Bureaucratic, overreaching buffoons of the NCR or the fap fantasy of some dude that choose to be called Caesar, awash in slavery and silly models of the ancient world.

What helps keep either of these factions interesting is that with a few tweaks in their ideology, both could be equally desirable. Then again this is the post-apocalypse, and for any new ways of living to gain traction, they must be firm and uncompromising.

In a world where squirting paint out of your vagina is art this game is also art. I insist upon it.

>NCR
I am not edgy 12 years old so I am not siding Legion

I actually think Mr. House is the most interesting character in the game. Specifically because real people who play the game fall for his bullshit. That's how well Obsidian wrote him. He works just like a real megalomaniac does.

This.

AVE
V
E

Caesar's Legion was shit in New Vegas. It was clear that the developers did not intend for the player to bother following them. They have like two missions and both of them are "Go to this NCR camp and kill everyone we have slaves lmao"

Yes Man was the only real option and the only people who say otherwise either played shit couriers intentionally or are giant House/romaboos.

>leaving an independent Vegas for the next roaming band to overtake immediately after you leave and the robots get fucked with by literally anyone who knows anything about computers
Get a real ending asshole

The Legion will collapse at the death of Caesar. The only promising future for Vegas is House. NCR being corrupt assholes and Benny "muh anarchy"

>not forming a hereditary technocracy

lol what a pleb, he wants to bow down to his fake-Roman dog masters and his MISTTAA HAUS.

>the developers did not intend for the player to bother following them

they ran out of time, they originally intended to fully flesh them out.

why does he wear the mask?

>muh caesars legion

Yeah sure the terminally ill, larping luddit is the best option for rebuilding something of worth.

Its obviously the NCR. Ofc they are a bureaucratic corrupt mess but they are the only ones who are rebuilding a somewhat modern civilization from the ground up.

If you studied history at all you'd realize that both the NCR and Legion are shit and reflect old world civilizations that ultimately failed. Why would I prop up something that I know failed in the past? Independent or House is the way to go.

Except that's wrong. You can literally kill Caesar in the game and the Legion still retains the essence of what it was just with a less competent head.

>Independent or House is the way to go.

Because House isn't a product of the Old World...

House is just a technocratic megalomaniac who has lost touch with the world. The NCR is more flexible and in touch with reality.

Independent is rightfully shown as anarchist mess. No progress and the next big fish is just going to swallow Vegas.

>CRASHING THIS WASTELAND

The NCR had already managed to resemble its American forebear in every shitty quality that led to the Great War in the first place, and you think it's 'in touch with reality'?

This

>every shitty quality that led to the Great War

The great War was caused by China and the lack of ressources.

>America invading Canada is nothing guys!
>Let's go invade Beijing, those Chinks will be done before Christmas!

yeah america had nothing to do with it user ;)

>he's seriously defending propaganda from a god damn video game

>rival superpowers
>both accomplished amazing things
>it was their rivalry and the lack of resources that lead to the war

I never claimed american innocence you dunce.

I think we can both agree that the larpers legion is a worse option.

idk if you are a house or independent fag. Either way:

House: Yeah sure technocratic, paranoid, ancient steve jobs surely won't make the same mistakes a new american republic would. The NCR is at least somewhat felxible due to their democratic system. House is bound to fuck up at some point and he won't step down or be held accountable.

Independent: Yeah sure the traveling murder hobo hero and his mumbo-jumbo coalition of tribes surely is a worthy pretender in building a new civilization.

>ceasers legion
>retards wearing football pads running at you with guns

You're right. I'm certain that a marauding band of pillaging rapists with no interest in actually controlling any territory they conquer was exactly Caesar's vision for Nevada.

Mr. House

The House always wins, may man.

The NCR is still inherently flawed for being a democratic republic over vast areas which are infested with bandits and nuclear-derived mutants and creatures that make most of the populations' lives difficult and absurd. They fuck with autonomous communities while barely provide for most of their own.

I'm no expert in the lore of Fallout, so I don't know if there's actual large cities existing in California at the time of New Vegas, but if they are, then it's acceptable to install a Democratic Republic so long as there aren't domestic crisis going on and the population is somewhat literate.
Caesar on the otherhand, is just arriving from tribal chaotic areas which makes sense to have a autocratic government to subjugate them and create a collective society given the post-apocalyptic scenario they're in.
Each State should search out and tackle the most troublesome problems that are affecting the population and seek to solve them. In this case, it's still rebuilding a steady civilization, which presumably applies to most areas the NCR has under control, all of New Vegas area, and definitely from the East. NCR's structure can't solve that--there's too many of the commoners who are too desperate for supplies and safety with not enough resources to vote for the best long term options. Caesar understands that.
The Legion won't collapse without Caesar. Lanius character is compatible to Caesar's essential ideology--create a highly collective authoritarian State and be harsh to your enemies. He will definitely remain control of the all territory and land the Legion has during the time of New Vegas. The only problems he, or his lieutenants, would face with their current ideologies is being too harsh to the more cosmopolitan and stable settlements and not adapt their style of rule to the circumstances of certain settlements (i.e., not be as cruel once they're stable and prospering ,and lightening their authoritarian power on them, as Caesar understands)

Caesar had by far the most well thought out position

However he failed to realise that he lived in a video game and so all of his assumptions were wrong

It's flatout said in game that Lanius is a good general but not an administrator. He can continue to expand the legion and win battles but he isn't capable of actually ruling it.

>I don't know if there's actual large cities existing in California at the time of New Vegas

Yes, there are several large cities such as The Hub, Vault City, Junktown, NCR (formerly known as Shady Sands), Necropolis, Dayglow etc.

The thing is it seems like Caesar has already delegated the actual administration of everything to various other high ranking members of the military and unless Lanius is going to get rid of Caesar's carefully groomed inner circle it wouldn't be that much of a problem.

>However he failed to realise that he lived in a video game and so all of his assumptions were wrong

You mean Obsidian were rapidly approaching their deadline and needed to cut corners with the Legion. Caesar's dialogue is some of the best of the game and he is genuinely complex, articulate, intelligent character, but the Legion itself is pretty boring and not fleshed out, due to time constraints (Obsidian had ONE YEAR to do everything they did in FNV).

>it seems like Caesar has already delegated the actual administration
It does? It really doesn't to me. Where did you get that idea? Can you provide a quote or an example from some NPCs?

fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_endings
Please read the various endings for the game's areas, and make sure to note the very obvious differences between the "allow Caesar to die in Et Tumor, Brute" and "do not allow Caesar to die in Et Tumor, Brute" options.

May well be true, but we are talking about the legion as presented, not the legion as it might have been with more time

The greatest crime. The area past Hoover Dam was supposed to be explorable and full on Legion territory to do quests and follow the story.

Sadly they had to cut it all because time. So House and NCR get full stories but the Legion is fairly two dimensional.

I'd like to see Obsidian have another go.

Absurd you say?

Never gonna happen. Bethesda is fully committed to fucking the franchise canon and Obsidian fully committed to their own stuff. Just be glad you got New Vegas at all; it is the true Fallout 3.

Caesar has literally built stable civilizations from nomadic and savage tribes from the ground-up and created them into effective functioning societies and Empire in just 30 years. The NCR has established a skeleton type government over small settlements while barely can maintain their own function over 100 years and can barely maintain it's own socieyt. NCR will still exist if you don't side with them. Legion will still exist without Caesar. House will not however exist if you don't aid him. He fucked up in completing his plans before, and he has shown he is incompetent by unintentionally relying on the benevolence of you for the essence of his State.
>NCR is somewhat flexible with his democratic system
Democracy means shit in an area apart of post-apocalyptic wasteland where most people lack necessities and are dealing with radioactive derived super monsters.
The rapist bit is true (regarding newly conquered people), but the NCR is just that with everything else you listed but incompetent in maintain their rule over them and providing them functional service.
Caesar's Lieutenants have an inherent incentive to maintain their conquered societies so that they will pay tribute to them. And by making sure they will remain obedient and stable, they know by their ideology and previous actions that they have to maintain a harsh rule in regarding the reliant of supplies, social norms, logistics, having a collective identity, and punishment. That is Caesar's view for Nevada. Their views however, won't be compatible if they do conquer California and their constituents prosper enough to realize that their draconic laws are no longer needed.

what just said, and also the fact that, given their current territory, what makes him being a good general (strict with his soldiers, maintaining collective order and morale making sure they are self-reliant and ascetic in nature, being harsh to his enemies, distributing supplies and order plans among them) is compatible and necessary over the lands he is ruling. It isn't compatible among any large settlement that has a prosperous and advance populace that he might come across while conquering California.

>implying actual rome didn't embody 'we have slaves and are also militarily deities who value strength above intelligence and citizenship beyond nationality'

it's the empire, not republic, the cult of personality is overemphasized just as it should be in the post apocalyptic setting; when civilization is destroyed, men rise and become it themselves

/autism

>NCR will still exist if you don't side with them. Legion will still exist without Caesar. House will not however exist if you don't aid him. He fucked up in completing his plans before, and he has shown he is incompetent by unintentionally relying on the benevolence of you for the essence of his State.
Actually he does have an insurance policy. Victor. Using the courier is more convenient and allows for a human lieutenant but if the courier actually died, house would still be able to get the platinum chip. The outcome may be messier and not as controlled as house would've liked but ultimately he would have gotten his "hands" on the chip, he would have upgraded his army and would have found a way to keep his plans on track. Courier is preferable as an infiltrator and agent but ultimately, house can get alternatives. In fact the courier does become the only loose thread in Houses plan, as he can kill House and take over for himself.

House does have judgement issues and trusts way too much in his subordinates (i.e. Benny, Courier) but he is still an undeniable genius and has the one trait that every benevolent dictator lacks: practical immortality. If Caesar was immortal, you bet your ass the choice who to side with would get much harder, but at the moment, only house can plan to stick around 200+ years into the future. House has the capital, the time, the power, and an incorruptibility that none of the other options do, which is why I sided with him.

But that's just my opinion.

>all these legioncucks and ncrcucks
>forgetting caesar's entire speech on synthesis
>not realizing that caesar's goal was to unify the best aspects of the legion and the ncr through conflict
>not realizing conflict was literally the only option
>not realizing lanius foreshadowed that they would be "back" if you side with ncr/house/yes man
>not realizing that the entire point of caesar's legion was literally "war, war never changes"

browsing Veeky Forums really makes you wish for a nuclear winter

>Siding with the NCR
>Siding with House

The brotherhood of steel is the way, they are truly alpha males

>post apocalyptic society
>stuck with 50's hairstyles
>barbers can still give you a clean fade from 2015

How

>Falling for the populist trick again.

What did we fall for? As far as I can remember, he compensates you and runs the strip as promised in the epilogue.

Yes Man >>> House >>>>>>> NCR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Legion

The world has had its shit fucked up therefore the barbers are phenomenally skilled.

If you don't hate women you're basically a cuck.

Caesar is the exact opposite of a populist.

All populist icons are.

...

Independent is the only option to take if you actually want the Mojave to realize its true potential.

>not taking Caesars ideas and melding them with the Republican bureaucracy of the NCR thus fulfilling Caesars wish for Hegelian synthesis without New Vegas having to be destroyed

you don't even diplomacy and ideological resolution do you user

It's not like you can't, you know, have kids.

I know this seems like a far off possibility to your weak virgin mind, but it actually does happen.

legionarii pedicatores erant

wtf I love Mormons now

Me too.

Bear
I'm one for order and peace at the expense of some personal liberties

I'd suck his crispy cock anyday