Are they cowards?

>all terrorists are cowards

How do you figure?

>Fighting against Nazis = being subservient to Britain

Ah yes

>Murdering innocent civilians to try and further your cause

When you target civilians by putting bombs in bins you cease to have any sort of paramilitary moral high ground. I think the troubles wouldn't have been nearly so troublesome if it was a purely "military" affair

Calm down comrade

No
No
Depends
Both

essentially, at least for us
Churchill was even contemplating invading us to stop Hitler using Ireland as a spring-board for a land war in Britain as loads of other Continental powers had tried to do in the past
why would we fight the Nazis anyway?

>but after the Home Rule act and the subsequent independence of Eire, they lost their mandate and became simple terrorists,
how about no

>loyalists killing loyalists
>IRA killing IRA
The fuck is this

it makes perfect sense lad, feuding was always common in the militant Republican movement as did the Loyalists but for different reasons normally

I know that Veeky Forums is edgy and everything, but most people consider Hitlers murderous regime to be quite evil and worth fighting against. But whatever, Ireland wasn't being invaded so why bother right?

>But whatever, Ireland wasn't being invaded so why bother right?
pretty much yeah, Dev even gave his regards to the German ambassador when Hitler died

if you think people joined the Allies to oppose Hitler because he was a super evil baddie you've not read past primary school history textbooks

>When you target civilians by putting bombs in bins you cease to have any sort of paramilitary moral high ground.

I don't disagree, but that's not what I asked. How does that make them "cowards?"

I'd consider the British regime quite evil and worth fighting against

it's all perspective though, I'm a butthurt Irishman and you're a butthurt Jew

The biggest mystery is why they still speak English. Israel revived a dead language and alphabet, why cant Eire go back to their own language?

Everyone in Ireland already spoke English, while the various Jewish people who reached Israel lacked a unficied language.
And other reasons too, but thats for starters.

One thing you have to realise about Ireland is it doesn't really have a pre-British identity. It truly is a country entirely shaped by its relationship to England.

Hence why they do stupid things like hand their country over to the Catholic church on a plate and use the Euro currency. They are desperate to do anything that breaks that connection to Mother England.

Ireland is British and belongs in the UK. Northern Ireland is an artificial state that should be reunited within the UK.

God bless you Ireland. One day you will wake up from this foolishness, my beautiful son.

*caitheann sliotar ar thú*
póg mo thóin, sasanach

>countless

>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
From a pragmatic POV, yes. They would've gotten development and money pouring in. It would've made the Battle of the Atlantic easier for the Allies.

However, why should the Irish citizen give a rat's ass about fighting in WW2? It wasn't their war and 6 counties were separated from the rest of the island.

The Irish were treated as rent mules and cannon fodder by the British for centuries. They already fought in the Great War, why jump ship with them and doom another generation of young men?

>why cant Eire go back to their own language?
Sadly, they lack the motivation to do so since everyone speaks English anyway.

I see you also have Google translator.

>the immediate loyalist asshurt in this thread

Well OP, TIME FOR A HISTORY LESSON ON THE TROUBLES IN NI

A BRIEF HISTORY:

>Civil Rights Movement (CVM) in Ulster trying to get equal housing, employment and voting rights for irish catholics
>Paisley sets up the UCDC, a group dedicated to stopping the CVM
>UVF carry out 3 attackes in Belfast, one attempted firebombing of a catholic pub, two people shot as they walked home and three more shot as they left a pub
>First Civil Rights march happens in August 1968
>In October, they tried to march in Derry but the loyalists wanted to march in the same place at the same time, so the CV march got banned. They defied the ban, and were indiscriminately beaten by the RUC (the police of the time)
>A student-driven protest against this violence later that week was blocked by Paisley and other Loyalists as they marched to city hall
>A march by this student-driven group in early 1969 is repeatedly attacked by loyalists and off-duty RUC officers, using bricks, bars and whatever other loose weapons they had
>A few months later, the loyalists bombed several buildings and blamed the IRA in an attempt to tear apart the UUP (Ulster Unionist Party) who were sympathetic to the CVM
>British soldiers deployed to guard several areas
>RUC raid a house during clashes with CV marchers and beat a man to death and his daughter unconscious .
>The UVF plant a bomb in the ROI in late 1969
>During a riot which was started when nationalists stoned an Orange Hall, RUC officers beat Franic McCloskey to death. THIS IS CONSIDERED THE FIRST DEATH OF THE TROUBLES.
>years of memeraiding
>Good Friday Agreement

Loyalists are africa-tier bushpirates and cannot be trusted.
The troubles were started by Loyalists, the unrest in NI was brought about by loyalists (Charles Haughley literally told them to stop faffing about or it'll kick off) and the most atrocities in the Troubles were committed by Loyalists and Brits.

Don't let the Orange """men""" fool you.

this desu senpai

>Loyalists are africa-tier bushpirates and cannot be trusted.

Actually it's more you guys and there's actually nothing wrong with that.

Note that the first death isn't the start of the Troubles, but just noted as the first death as a result of the period named the Troubles.

As you did list, deaths happened prior to this.

I have no idea whatsoever why people blame the troubles on the fenians considering they did sweet fuck all for a very long time while unionists consistently battered, bombed and shot irish people left right and center.

Then suddenly they put up a fight and it's "TERRORISTS!!! MUH PEACE PROCESS!!! GET THEM OUT !!! NO SURRENDER !!!"

Bogniggers are annoying but by christ the British-flavoured ones are even worse.

Considering the moral implications, were British soldiers cowards for not fighting to overthrow the empire?

>Somebody posts actual facts and information
>The loyalists flee the thread

Beautiful.

>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
Yes, they should have helped their eternal enemy.

If there's one thing the Irish aren't, it's cowards.
But they're also chronically depressed about their shitty, rainy homeland (FUCK Ireland, I don't think I had dry clothes EVER), and they really need to chill with this whole Catholic business because muh Presbyterian master race.

English treatment of Irish was somewhat similar to Hitler's actions and plans. Why would they support English? They didn't support Hitler either.

>Are they cowards?
yes
>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
yes
>Was treating Irish men who fought for Britain poorly wrong?
yes, possibly mistreating them because their courage and conscience shamed the irish government
>Were the IRA of the 60s freedom fighters or memeraiders?
they thought they were freedom fighters, but pretty much acted like terrorists, ironically they actually did more harm than good to their own cause and probably delayed a settlement by 20-30 years, years they spent in petty murder and internecine strife

and you can kiss my ass boghopper.

you left out the part where the IRA started shooting the troops from the mainland sent to protect the catholics and escalated matters from a local disturbance likely to be settled soonish (there was no desire to keep oppressing catholics in westminster and loyalist bullshit gave them a wedge to reform) but once the republicans started shooting no real progress could be made until they stopped.

>most atrocities in the Troubles were committed by Loyalists and Brits.
no by almost all atrocities were commited by the irish, either republican or loyalist, the british bloody sunday aside (and that was a fuck up not a planned action) tried to avoid civilian death, the principal problem being the need to reform the RUC and the impossibility of doing so while the troubles were flaring.

>why didn't a neutral island nowhere near the war join the war
gee I fucking wonder why
never mind the fact that industrialisation was just starting, or that anti-British sentiment was still high because most adult men still remember the Anglo-Irish war
nah it's because we were cowards
>t. taig

I'm also interested in this
would Uncle Adolf have oven'd us?

I hope you apply the same principle to loyalist paras and the British Army, otherwise you're full of shit

Not entirely unheard of lad
One of the most vehemently anti-Catholic serial killers, leader of the Shankhill butchers, was sold out by the loyalists he supported

More civilians died at the hands of the UDA than by all the Irish Catholic "official" and "unofficial" attackers.

Unionists hunted irish, IRA hunted Brits and then started hunting UDA members.

Of course they "fought like terrorists" they were fighting a guerilla war in an urban area against:

>A police force infamous for abusing them
>A huge paramilitary supported by this police force
>British soldiers who showed up and supported both of the above

The idea that they could have done fuck all without civilian casulties is naive.

They had fuck all reason to join the allies, and you sound like a buttmad brit that can't accept that SOMEHOW despite being OVERWHELMINGLY more powerful The British couldn't keep hold of a fucking bog.

Absolutely every official and unofficial armed presence in Ulster was set against the IRA. The Troubles were brought about by how Loyalists treated catholic irish people, despite warnings from both the Republic and from Unionist figures that shit was about to pop off.

Actually some people wanted some sort of friendly nature based on the krauts trying to help the Irish with the 1916 rising.

In general though, attitude was "We've only just finished fighting the fucking British, how about we spend a few years where our sons don't die for a change."

I don't think that they SHOULDN'T have joined the allies but I don't really see a reason that they should have. Very easy to dictate a nation's actions when you're decades ahead in the future, not so easy to do it when you've been put in charge of a nation that you yourself fought in a war to create.

Ireland isn't much. But in terms of how hard they had it and how little they had to work with, they pulled off in my opinion one of the larger slaps to the face of the British.

I remember seeing somewhere that Michael Collins was voted a bigger enemy of Britain than Napoleon, and I believe that something so huge happening right in the UK's back garden was crazy.

You forgot the part where both nationalists and loyalists were relieved to see the British Army, thinking it would end the violence, only for the BA to turn into another loyalist paramilitary

Ireland-german relations were weird, but De Valera was a smart dude.

He was the only (I think) world leader to tell Germany "Yo sorry Adolf died hope ur ok bb" and he was slammed for this, but a lot of people understand that Ireland as a fledgeling nation didn't want to go stepping on does or waving a political penis it just didn't have.

Sentiment based on the 1916 rising that mentioned died out pretty quickly, Hitler then just saw Ireland as another neutral country.
He'd probably have been madder if he was aware of how much Ireland helped the allies, I'm pretty sure they were as helpful as possible while retaining their "neutral" status.

I think there was once a theoretical plan for an invasion of Ireland as a backdoor to England, but it was never regarded as something that'd actually have been used.

Interesting side note on the friendly nature with the germs bit
The Krauts made a movie trying to get the Irish to want tot join the Axis, but it had the opposite effect of seeing the Nazis as the oppressors
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Life_for_Ireland

>de valera was a smart dude

He was shit. He was a shit fighter and and even shittier politician.

He got us locked out of the EU for 30 years, so I give him points for keeping us out of that shitshow

You know what I know little about Ireland and don't feel strongly either way but can we all agree that the 12 Apostles Gunmen under Michael Collins is probably the tightest shit in semi-modern history?

>Collins decides to have a guerilla war
>"But sir there's a metric fuck tonne of british spies"
>Collins tells the spies to fuck off or get killed
>They don't fuck off
>Collins assembles the fucking Spud Avengers
>Sends them out to purge
>What starts off as somewhat informal/inefficient shootings and assassinations became more efficient
>Bloody Sunday comes around
>The Cairo gang, an infamous gang of intelligence officers is yukking it up in Ireland as usual
>14 MI5 officers killed, six wounded in the space of a few hours
>Brits so triggered that they shoot up a stadium

Has there ever been a more based man than Michael Collins?

>has there ever been a man more based than Collins
no
he was our best son

>Cowards at best.

YEAH, oh okay dude. Ok.

signed fucktard britbong

Guy wrote the book on guerilla warfare.

...

As a true lion hearted englishman i can say with all honesty that the Irish did no more than we brits would have in the same situation. You opress us, you die. Even if were outnumbered and outgunned we still fight. Cant begrudge padddy that

>Are they cowards?
Considering they won their war of independence if they're cowards then Anglos are giga-cowards.
>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
No, that would have been a dumb idea. It was a newly independent country that would have been a liability to the war effort if anything. Not to mention they had nothing to gain from joining the allies, and would have been inevitably crushed by the British had they joined the war on the Axis.

>Was treating Irish men who fought for Britain poorly wrong?
Yes.

>Were the IRA of the 60s freedom fighters or memeraiders?
Neither, those are both meme-categorizations. They were rebels. Some of them did have lofty nationalist motiviations, and some of them were just terroristic maniacs.

I think they had plans in the long run but it wouldn't have been worth the hassle after the first year or so

He knew. Devalera and the German ambassador git on well and Devalera has told him that he'd have allow "specific considerations" or something along those lines to Britain. Hitler probably sent bombers to Ireland at least once as a warning.

>trusting GT for a good translation
all from the auld focloir laddie

t.orange monkey

Actually Dublin got bombed quite hard during WW2, although a lot of people say it was "by accident."

It would have been easy for De Valera to say "fuck it" and join the allies, but the lasting affect of a newly formed Ireland suddenly once more sending off young men to die for Britain would have harmed their image and the people's faith in the government in the long run.

There really haven't been very many good Taoiseach's, but the good ones were in my opinion without a doubt some of the greatest politicians-or at least the ones with the most interesting and challenging careers-in the history of the Isles.

>tfw one of Ireland's best leaders was an ex-assassin

Tight as fuck

Honestly having a hearty "hehehe" @ hun history hour, hombres

>Unionist education

He was a master organiser in general. Some of his most impressive shit was as finance minister for the basically non-existent republic. He managed to secure a huge loan to fund the war while his ministry was basically just him and some helpers in a safehouse, most of the "treasury" of the republic was in private bank accounts or hidden under floorboards in Dublin. Despite this he managed to organise a loan to the Commies in Russia who couldn't get one from anyone else and they gave some Romanov jewels as collateral, which would also remain hidden in a house until after the civil war. Crazy shit.

>Brits so triggered that they shoot up a stadium

I know what they did on Bloody Sunday was a terrible thing but this made me kek

Please explain how Ireland could actually fight the Germans and why we should've done it.

Our army was WW1-tier and could've been crushed easily. Only in guerrilla warfare would we have a chance. We were a country of two million. Tell me, what should we have done?
The Germans wanted to be our friend in both world wars. The Brits were not deserving of our help.

>Hitlers murderous regime to be quite evil and worth fighting against

Yeah, that's why every single european country banded up and embarked on a holy crusade to fight the nazis, oh wait, the axis weren't only compromised of germany, japan and italy. The irish had no stake in the war, you might as well fault fucking south american countries for not getting involved. .

...

>Actually Dublin got bombed quite hard during WW2, although a lot of people say it was "by accident."
Some probably were. If memory serves places further south were bombed too, including a co-op or creamery. Thats why people suspect it was a hint to stop sending as much food and just general help to the allies.

I have to say, I'm not a big DeVelara fanboy but its hard not to fucking respect the cunt

For the sake of my sanity and for whatever fate I have for education on this Island I have to believe thats bait
I mean DEAR FUCKING JESUS, just trying to wrap my head around being that fucking brainwashed and uneducated makes my head hurt

Why the fuck would they have joined the Brits?
If something they should had ally with Germans and invade Ulster. Seriously.

Is this a troll?

How is it cowardice? Are the Swiss cowards too?
Germany dindu nuffin to the Irish. Ireland had no obligations to protect Poland. England had been shit ting on Ireland for roughly 800 years. A nation looks out for its citizens. Too many paddies have died for John Bull's wars, why should more?
>based Irish let practically any Nazis live openly in Ireland just to give the fingers to the UK.

1. because Irish people were sick of fighting other peoples wars
2. At the beginning of the war Germany wasn't seen as all that bad
3. Germany had treated Ireland better than Britain had, or at least the republicans
4. Ireland had basically no army
5. "Muh neutrality" was the best way to say fuck you to Britain and to show the world we werent the UKs cucks anymore
That being said youre right about the church bit. Completely wrong with the failed state bit

Ya, germany hadn't invaded us, more than we can say about the brit
>I know that comes off as salty but fuck it

It's probably a mixture, but I don't think OP was baiting.

In the North Unionists are nip-tier revisionists when it comes to this sort of thing. There are murals all over of "examples" of how Ulster has always been not as irish as the rest of Ireland.

They'll tell you that the Troubles started because some random catholics decided to start killing protestants.

I only found out about the actual history/death tolls/bakground of the Troubles because I looked it up in my spare time, and I'm often scolded by family if I bring it up.

t. Ulster fag in a protestant family

ROI is one of those weird little countries with some radical history tidbits.

>One of their most loved Taoiseach's was once a member of a group of master assassins who hunted anglo spies
>He's widely regarded as a masterful economist, politician and also a bretty good assassin

It's all the best parts of African politics without the third-world shit

>Loyalists are africa-tier bushpirates

Loyalists sell drugs to the communities that they claim to protect
They are not bushpirates, they are Drug Dealing Scum and gangsters

Take a walk up the Nationalist Falls Rd, it's vibrant
Take a walk up the loyalist Shankhill Rd
It's a drab shit hole with more boarded up shops than ones that are actually open

>why is that?

It's because of the protection money that loyalist gangsters DEMAND from the shop keepers

They claim that their only crime is loyalty
I disagree

THEIR ONLY LOYALTY ... IS CRIME

pic related
johnny adair, former Loyalist gangster and murderer, now exiled and living in Scotland, FUCKING BASTARD

>DeValera
>masterful economist

>Dev
>beloved

This.

> Loyalists sell drugs to the communities that they claim to protect
If you're trying to imply nationalists don't do this you're a retard. I live in South Armagh, we have serious meth problems and literally everyone smokes weed. If you don't think the IRA are in on this every dealer around will tell you otherwise

Not to mention there's nice streets in East Belfast as well.

Those pricks are connected the the cartels in Dublin and have nothing whatsoever to do with the Republican movement

Sure, there's nice places in East Belfast but my comparison between the Falls and the Shankill was to demonstrate how two roads that practically run parallel have drastically different levels of business and prosperity due the cancer of gangsterism

british army didn't commit any crimes.

...

I wasn't talking about him.

Lemass a best

Not only that, but they both killed more of themselves than of the other.

They were as bad as the UDA desu

>o with the Republican movement
If you don't think nationalist gangsters have anything to do with the republican movement, you should also acknowledge that loyalist gangsters aren't motivated by their expressed philosophy either. They are both simply motivated by lust for profit.

Every single paramilitary organisation in Northern Ireland, on either side of the divide, is driven by money and nigger-tier bloodlust.

The IRA of the Troubles fought for a cause, then splintered and splintered until it became about killing Brits willy nilly.

The UDA/UVF/RUC were all about just killing irish people.

One side was significantly more of a dick to civilians, but people don't seem to count irish catholics as civilians because "they might have been in the IRA."

They're all scum today, but the attitude that the enemy of innocents in Ulster is the irish is literal revisionism since the RUC and UDA were beating and bombing innocents way before the IRA let off a single bullet in the Troubles.

>The IRA of the Troubles fought for a cause, then splintered and splintered until it became about killing Brits willy nilly.
bit inconsistent

We didn't want to fight with Britain in WW2 as we where right in the middle of our long and hard struggle for political independence at that time and being neutral in the war would be an excellent assertion of this emerging independence. We where not totally neutral and where more on Britains side, when RAF pilots crashed we sent them over the border but with Germans they where arrested, we sent firefighters over the border to help with bombing in Northern Ireland. Germany punished us for this by bombing Dublin.
It would have been the easy move to fight with them, but we took the move requiring genuine bravery and maintained our own independence. I don't think any other country has fought so relentlessly for freedom and no people has such a reputation for fighting. Not cowards certainly.

TOMMY WUZ A GOOD BOY

HE DINNU DO NUFFIN

Say hello to Dee Stitt, UDA gunman, convicted Terrorist and Gangster.

He and many other "Community Workers" in the loyalist areas are, and this is the Chief Constable's own words

>Community Workers at day, paramilitaries by night

But here's the thing, Dee is special
Dee is SOOO special that the government gave him nearly £1 million for his "community program" for the loyalist area

'Some would say that's paying off the playground bully to behave
Others would say that's extortion of the Tax payers
Some people, particularly in Clandeboye, are outraged
Especially when Dee was behind the attack of a man who decided to STAND UP to the loyalist gangsters infiltrating the area to sell drugs

Dee is using loyalism and those communities to line his own pockets, and there are many more like him

>Are they cowards?
no
>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
provided secret aid to British and barely qualified as neutral
>Was treating Irish men who fought for Britain poorly wrong?
Some did, some didn't. Personally I think it was bad.
>Were the IRA of the 60s freedom fighters or memeraiders?
freedom fighters to become memeraiders
>Everything in Ireland's history points to them being petty scrappers and cowards at best.
t.eternal anglo

also the Irish had about 4 anti air guns during ww2 started so they wouldn't have been much help outside of allowing allies to use treaty ports

Yeah county Wexford saw abit of the bombing due to being coastal.My little village got bombed because they taught it was Manchester.

kek

Irishfag here.
We should've stayed with the Empire.
The only people who were oppressed and gave a fuck were Catholic, so if you didn't give a fuck about either sides of Christianity, there's no reason to hate the British.
Catholic rule in Ireland fucked us over.
It also made our flag ugly as fuck.

>All these plastic paddies who are 1/4th Irish defending memeraiders