Can socialists be consider human?

>Dr.Hoppe
>A dork
t.human trash

>muh property

You do realize he just called the Founding Fathers "bums and inferior people". They practically invented the word "egalitarian".

>Private property-> higher productivity
does not follow. In fact, one would expect the opposite.
>more wealth-> more material gains for the group
>for the group
doesn't follow either. And it sure as hell doesn't follow that a system in which newly produced wealth is privately appropriated by owners leads to more benefits to the group as a whole than a system in which new wealth is distributed among those who produced it.

>Nothing really exist WOAH
Baby tier philosophy.
>Democrats
>Not bums and inferior people
>does not follow. In fact, one would expect the opposite.
If that person was not a human
>doesn't follow either. And it sure as hell doesn't follow that a system in which newly produced wealth is privately appropriated by owners leads to more benefits to the group as a whole than a system in which new wealth is distributed among those who produced it.
Singapure vs Cuba orCuba vs Cuba are good example. Socialism just works in VIctoria II in real life the planification of the economy leads to the collapse of certain economic sectors while the diversity of capitalism allows capitalist societies to have diversified and prosperous economies

>Hoppe
>teaching humanities nonsense at a public university at the taxpayer's expense
>having the gall to call anyone a parasite or a subhuman

and he wrote an entire book like that? What a waste of time. You couldn't even use the paper to wrap dead fish in it, cause you'd be insulting the fish by doing so.

>having the gall
user pls, we've talked about these spooks of yours.

>Nothing really exist WOAH
>he doesn't understand Stirner

>and he wrote an entire book like that?
He debunked democracy in that book.Pretty impressive.But non humans like yourself wouldn't understand it
Hoppe doesn't even work in academia anymore as he offended faggots

If a 'computer' doesn't function in any way that a computer would be expected to, it's not really a computer but just metal that looks like a computer.

>being human comes from the understanding of labour productivity
Is hans an autist?

>Hoppe doesn't even work in academia anymore as he offended faggots
He was employed by a public university for 22 years, literally mooching off of tax dollars.

To be fair he's too harsh on commies.
They aren't non-human any more than 2 year olds are. They are simply stuck on the same level as those 2 year olds who steal things from other kids and don't understand why it's wrong.

>Get stolen 40% of your income in taxes
>WTF you are taking tax money that was previously stolen from you wtf.
Academia in Germany is all public.As soon as he could he move to the US and then he just lives from the revenue of his masterpieces

I'm saying employed not educated, you illiterate baboon.

Without being in academia you can barely have any respect as an economist or philosopher you drunk rhino

Redistribution of wealth to those, that produce it is like the opposite of stealing.

>hurrr durr libertarian societies will never work the idea is so shit
>people try to start a free society or remove themselves from current society
>they must be forcibly reintroduced and made to comply at threat of violence because the "system" works so well

The stockholm syndrome with statists is so goddamn unreal. It would be like if mcdonalds killed everyone who tried to make their own food, and then people who were eating at mcdonalds insisted that mcdonalds food was so good that no one should try eating anything else. And then when someone wants to go somewhere else the mcdonalds eaters cheer on or join in whoever tries to kill or capture them. But of course the food is so good, why would you ever wanna leave? But just in case you do.. we will have to harm you.

State cucks are just too fucking proud to admit that they're slaves, so they'll service their masters cocks, even when they aren't being conferred any benefit for the service, just to uphold their cognitive dissonance.

Wrong. Read Ayn Rand.
Those that produce is a synonym for owners and upper management :^)

If your society can't defend itself from outside aggression, it cannot be considered a working society.

Then why he had to mooch off my taxes instead of getting employed by a private university? Nigger is literally an immigrant foreign parasite living on taxpayer welfare while telling people about how we should restrict immigration and kick out parasites. I can't tell whether this is some postmodern meta irony or he's actually this retarded.

>Reading Ayn Rand
Why

>of getting employed by a private university
He did when he moved to the USA.But he was fired because he said mean things about fags

>"We should kick out the parasites!"
>kick out the parasites
>parasites form their own society based on market controls and wealth redistribution, outproduces that capitalistic hell of Hoppeland because the workers actually give a shit about what they're doing and aren't basically disposable serfs
>utterly crushes Hoppeland

GG faggots.

University of Nevada that fired him is the public school I was talking about, faggot. It's not a private institution.

Because it's an easy introduction to rational politics for socialists.

>>parasites form their own society based on market controls and wealth redistribution, outproduces that capitalistic hell of Hoppeland because the workers actually give a shit about what they're doing and aren't basically disposable serfs
When has this ever happen other than your head?
The US is not his country it is just a huge private institution that uses slavery as its source of revenue.

You would recommend Ayn Rand to a socialist? Are you retarded?

>The US is not his country it is just a huge private institution that uses slavery as its source of revenue.
I agree it's not his country, hence why he should fuck off back to Germany.

>Those that produce is a synonym for owners and upper management :^)
holy kek

>I agree it's not his country, hence why he should fuck off back to Germany.
He doesn not live there anymore. But he brought huge money to the US with his master pieces.

ITT: a buttmad lolbertarian pretends that his ideas aren't a rapidly fading dream and hides his insecurities under a veneer of ridicule and faux-elitism
reason.com/blog/2016/12/02/vice-president-elect-mike-pence-on-the-c
thefederalist.com/2016/12/09/donald-trumps-ideological-gutting-of-the-republican-party/

>When has this ever happen other than your head?

Basically every single mixed economy on the planet; it's been repeatedly demonstrated that not treating your workers like disposable slaves makes them more productive.

>Those that produce is a synonym for owners and upper management :^)
Manual labour is pretty fucking easy to replace.Intelectual capital and material capital no so much

An owner can run a factory with completely minimal input, as he simply leaves it to middle-men.

These people merely own it because of arbitrary property rights, they aren't the producers.

>Basically every single mixed economy on the planet
You mean the ones that outsource the jobs to China.Even then human scum is substained by the state not the other way around

>hurr durr outsourcing

Nah, the products of outsourcing aren't factored into statistics like GDP.

>An owner can run a factory with completely minimal input, as he simply leaves it to middle-men.
They risk huge amount of capital
>arbitrary property rights
They are not arbitrary.They have been developed through thousands of years.
>they aren't the producers
But they allow the workers to not go millions in debt if the bussiness fail.You dumbfucks seem to ignore that people can lose money while trying to produce something
>WE ARE MUR PRUDUCTIVE
>OUTSOURCING IS A MEME XD
Sure thing faggot

I never claimed outsourcing is a meme. Just that statistics still show mixed economies to be the most productive.

>They risk huge amount of capital
When you hit a certain point of wealth this doesn't matter, but even if it did, it still doesn't make them producers because they risk some monoply money.
>They are not arbitrary.They have been developed through thousands of years.
They are purely founded on spooks, and I don't mean that in a memey way. There is nothing denoting a huge business owner that he owns the business beyond state-violence and people's delusions. If it's within the workers interests to simply control the business, it isn't stealing, it's merely ignoring a spirit you place faith into.
>But they allow the workers to not go millions in debt if the bussiness fail
Still doesn't make him a producer, only means he can safeguard people against a shitty system.

>They are not arbitrary.They have been developed through thousands of years.

Something being old does not make it not arbitrary. Property rights have no real existence; they exist only through social recognition.

>But they allow the workers to not go millions in debt if the bussiness fail.You dumbfucks seem to ignore that people can lose money while trying to produce something

That's still not the same as producing, you goddamn idiot.

>Property rights have no real existence; they exist only through social recognition.
Yeah, so do morals and laws. Doesn't mean they're arbitrary.

Do you actually have any arguments other than calling someone subhuman and dismissing what they say because it's hard for you to think about?

These are clearly the words of a deeply damaged man with no loves for anything outside of a bizarre fetish for laissez-faire. How you can find these embarrassing quotes in any way helpful to your case is beyond me.

>Yeah, so do morals and laws. Doesn't mean they're arbitrary.

Yes, as a matter of fact it does. If they don't have a "real" existence, than any point you start them from is fundamentally arbitrary.

>mixed economies to be the most productive
But they aren't.GDP doesn't measure productivity.
>When you hit a certain point of wealth this doesn't matter
It does. Only like 10000 people in the planet could be unaffected by millionarie loses but even if it did, it still doesn't make them producers because they risk some monoply money.
>They are purely founded on spooks,
>muh spooks
kek
>Still doesn't make him a producer
>Puts the capital
>That doesn't really cut as a part of the production process guyz
>Something being old does not make it not arbitrary
Arbitrary: decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute. The law makes property rights none arbitrary by definition alone.
>Property rights have no real existence
They pretty much do everywhere-
>That's still not the same as producing
>Puts the capital
>It really doesn't produce despite putting the most important thing in the production process

>Do you actually have any arguments other than calling someone subhuman and dismissing what they say because it's hard for you to think about?
I have actually BTFO those morons all the time

>Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system:
‘an arbitrary decision’
How, exactly?

>Arbitrary: decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute. The law makes property rights none arbitrary by definition alone.
>this literalist nonsense

Ok, you just have autism. Good to know.

>They pretty much do everywhere-

No, if people stopped recognizing them, they'd cease to be.

He's not a producer because he's not the one laboring to produce. Taking out a loan, being born into wealth, or convincing investors to give money is not the same as actually producing something.

It's arbitrary because property rights could have been set to any other form just as easily with just as "real" a basis to them.

Yeah, no. It's neither a random choice or a personal whim, but the product of human interaction and development. It is not arbitrary in any way.

>Use the literal definition of arbitrary
>hur hur autism
Kek
>No, if people stopped recognizing them, they'd cease to be.
But then they exist currently.Maybe they don't in your fairytales but in real life they do.
>He's not a producer because he's not the one laboring to produce.
This is actually an autistic definition. Production is not only labour.
>is not the same as actually producing something.
They idea and the planning requires lots of work
If they have a legal basis they can't be arbitrary you robot.

Not gonna lie, property seems to be pretty hard to justify. And I'm not talking about private property but property at all, even if it belongs to a group or nation. I was considering to write a paper about it but couldn't find anything decent written on the subject. Another problem is how and why we justify using natural resources in favour of future generation since the only reason we've access to them but they don't is pure luck.

It's complete historical happenstance that they've taken the form they do.

>But then they exist currently.Maybe they don't in your fairytales but in real life they do.

But they don't have a "real" existence, they're an entirely subjective idea.

>This is actually an autistic definition. Production is not only labour.

Oh, so I suppose if he just threw some money on the ground and nobody laboured, production would occur? Fascinating.

>They idea and the planning requires lots of work

Ideas and plans are free and don't actually amount to anything without labour.

>If they have a legal basis they can't be arbitrary you robot.

Laws themselves are fundamentally arbitrary, they are rooted in the personal whims of legislators (in the case of civil law) or in the whims of judges (in the case of common law).

>hard to justify
I have a gun, I point it at you and say this is mine. Those with power can claim ownership of things. Everything is simply interaction of forces and there's no need to justify any of it.

>historical happenstance
>historical
>happenstance
Yeah, because everything that occured in the past is completely random, right? Nothing "just happens". Everything has a cause, the cause has its own roots in something else and every single interaction and happening draws its roots from the beginning of the universe, or even further.

Yeah, but a Stirnerist view of property isn't what most would call "property."

The initial cause of all things in the causal chain of events is likely both causeless and random, so everything that follows is equally predicated on this random event.

And most people are spooked, blinded by their own prejudices and emotions. You can paint it any colour you want, come up with fancy philosophies, reasons and excuses, but at its very core, it's simply an interaction of forces, of powers and the stronger power prevails.

>likely both causeless and random,
How so?

No even subhuman is a compliment for them, always remember when choosing whether to kill an enemy or a traitor shoot the traitor. Socialists always become corrupt and worse than the system they sought to create, simply enough they bribe the poor with grand promises then redistribute wealth to themselves. Never trust a socialist or a commie either they are stupid or corrupt, not one has good intentions.

>How so?

It's likely rooted in something akin to the quantum events we see in which subatomic particles come into being purely randomly and causelessly in contravention of conservation of matter.

>likely
How so?

They're still human, just very ignorant ones. I never really understood the point of being a communist. Why be a communist when you can be a fascist or distributist instead? They both solve the same problems communism seeks to solve, but have had a far greater success rate.