Are Catholics Christians, Veeky Forums?

why?

*new

Sorry, but I can't understand this passage. Where does Jesus say that he is God? This passage sounds like Jesus is giving Peter the blessing to carry out his teaching.

It's where Jesus founds the Catholic Church.

He speaks from a position of authority that makes no sense if he isn't God. How else can he guarantee that the forces of Hell won't defeat his church?

Or maybe he is speaking from the authority that the Father give to Jesus? Kind of like a CEO give a manager a power to excute orders as he see fit, and if the lower worker disobey the manager, then they will get fired.

The Father is Omnipotent, He can do whatever he likes, it isn't strange that He commands hell to obey what Jesus said.

that would be nice, except uhhhhh

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of *the Son* and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Matthew 28:16-20

Timothy 3:16 for starters. I'll join in on this discussion when I'm home.

John 8:58

user, sorry if I'm being picky. As I said in (), where does Jesus HIMSELF say he is God or worship him. It need to come up from Jesus mouth, not from someone wrote about him.

>worshipped him
Mathew wrote this

Let me read this first

>hurr Jesus meant some other guy, not himself, as THE SON

Who then, motherfucker? Who is this speculative "other son" never mentioned in the bible or anywhere else? Why is this person put into the same category as the Father and the Holy Spirit?

>Is the Church founded by Jesus Christ Christian?

GEE I WONDER

1 timothy 3:16 and 2 timothy 3:16 . John 8:58 in particular

who to believe

Pretty much this.

No need to be rude, we're brethren.

God got many 'Sons'

1/2

2/2

Please give me a moment to read this

Catholics don't worship Mary and I think you know that.

>implying you actually know what indulgences are.

What you are thinking of as indulgences was stopped by the Church.

Why are proddies this fucking buttmad about us based catholics? I wasn't even aware that there existed this much of a one sided animosity in two thousand and fucking sixteen. Honestly, after browsing this board I find militant atheist more bearable than prods desu.

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

Jesus never existed, so it doesn't matter what he "said"

No, they're Babylonian pagans

Again, sorry for being picky, but both Timothy verses was not Jesus words, it was written by someone else.

For John 8, "before Abraham born, I am!". 'I am' what? If he IS god, the he should had said 'I am God'. But he end with 'I am'.

No, what he is referring to is we all before we were born, God has created all of us in the form of spirits(Jesus,me, you, hitler,ect), when it is time for us to come down to earth, our soul is put into the baby in the belly of our mother.

That's what he meant for before Abraham, I am.

It wasn't founded by Jesus, it is founded by Antichrist

>posting Deedat shit

Deedat pls go
"I am" is a name of God in Exodus 3:14

He's a great man. He's lovable, admit it.

The 'shit' is from your Bible, and you can't have double standard.

You need to acknowledged God got many 'Sons', even more than one 'begotten' Sons, David and Jesus according to your Bible.

Just let me read it first

The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has made himself the Son of God.”
John 19:7
What do you think the Jews thought Jesus was saying? And is it not true your koran says God has no son

Jesus was never a man on Earth, he is the firstborn of god and is subordinate to him, he died and resurrected in the celestial realm in the lower heavens just below the moon killed by Satan and his demons

All knees bow to him, except me

shoo shoo edgy satanist

If only you knew, bro

's better

>He claimed himself to be Son of God

But so does in pic and , but they were never punished.

There are even more extreme versus, like Exodus 7 1:

the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet."

Why are the term 'Son of God' and 'God' are being use loosely? It because those term are the idioms of the Jews, meaning that the 'Son of God' is a 'righteous person'. Not that Jesus is actually God's son.

The Jews at that time were looking for a fight, any excuses will do. So, when Jesus use that idiom, the Jews take this opportunity to kill him.

I'll start by recommending you stop listening to Deedat, the man was clueless. Exodus 7:1 is a metaphor for the power of Moses over Pharaoh. Son of God and God are not Jewish idioms, they never were.

Meant for I'm just using quotes from the Bible, the Koran had nothing to do with it

I think it's due to a lack of dialogue on our separate beliefs and from conversations of theology that divulge into shitty memes like "worshipping mary"

You're abusing the bible, and the reason is the koran.

If they were not idioms, then how do you explains the and ?

But you do worship Mary

He never claimed himself to be the son of God as he never existed as a human or godman on this Earth, bro

He was a subordinate to god first, the firstborn, the son of god then he was put on Earth in allegorical scripture (Mark)

Genesis 6 is about the angels and their spawn the Nephilim
Exodus 4 and Jeremiah 31 explicitly say Israel
Luke 3 is because Adam is the first man
Psalm 2 is about Jesus

Again, I'm only quote the Bible and where do I abuse it?

Well... if you can show where did Jesus say HIMSELF all of that, then I would be very happy.

>where do I abuse it?
Right here

Jesus didn't say anything because he never existed as a human or godman on this Earth, bro

He just is what he is, the firstborn of all creation and god's agent of creation

You need a backup for your claim bruh, things can't exist out of thin air without something backing it up.

Just let me look back at my post

Paul never mentions his Jesus having a ministry in Galilee and never mentions anything about any Disciples being chosen. He never has to argue against any historicity details in his authentic Epistles. It's most likely he believed in a celestial Jesus that was in Heaven and got crucified by Satan/his demons in the lower Heavens then appeared to Peter/the Apostles then to Paul because the only source for knowing Jesus that Paul knows is visions & scripture

Great, a Zeitgeistard and a Deedatard. I'll let you two morons figure it out.

>Zeitgeist
The movie or the idea?

What do you think

That shit has nothing to do with that movie, you imbecile, it's what a peer reviewed Mythicist argument looks like

Actually it looks better, I'm just giving you the gist of it

Do you even wach the Deedat movie of the sign of Jonah? Bet you can't watch it full length.

>Bet you can't watch it full length.
I'm sure you're right, i'd probably kill myself before it finished.

Jesus("God") went hell for our sins according to your Bible, right? Surely you can enter Heaven because of his sacrifice.

if you kys that is

Christ myth """theory""" is pseudo-historical garbage, rejected by even the most anti-Christian of historians.

>went hell for our sins
'no'

Sure it is, buddy, sure it is

That's why it was peer-reviewed

I probably screwed up badly, but this is your Church teaching, right?

No. Jesus went to Hades, not Hell.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#Criticism

Okay, and there's criticism about how people try to extract history from the Gospels and the extra-Biblical sources. This is from mainstream academia

They would never put that on Wikipedia though, would they?

Also, just because there's a stigma to accept the Myth theory doesn't make the myth theory wrong, that's not how logic works

You're right bro, it's coverup by all those devout Christian fundies like Bart Ehrman
Take off the tinfoil fedora user, it's time to get saved

Regardless, he("God") suffers in Hades because of our sins.

"God" enters Hades

I'll be away for a few moments, bye friends

>Are Catholics Christians, Veeky Forums?
Yes and so are Orthodox, Copts, Eastern Christians etc.

Protestants are not christian however.

There's literally an idol of Mary in OP's pic. She's just as big as Jesus. LMFAO

Bart Ehrman does sloppy scholarship

At times, anyway, he's on and off

He can't even agree with himself sometimes

It's a plausible theory, but you've never read it and refuse to give it shot because you think it's tinfoilhattery

I agree, but he's an anti-theist historian who compares Christ myth theory to YEC.

She's the Queen of Heaven :^)

He refuses to read the premiere book on Mythicism and do any of the research. He has literally no say in what is what

Also, that part of the article is bias af and attacking strawmen

You mean the 'I AM WHO I AM', and this is related to Jesus, 'I AM'?

So... does that mean Jesus is God just because God and Jesus use the same YHVH?

Look, if God in exodus stated his name in "I AM WHO I AM", then it should be, "I AM WHO YHVH". But that's not the case, seeing that God used the same YHVH(I AM) two times. So, "I AM WHO I AM" makes more sense than "YHVH WHO YHVH".

And Jesus said "YHVH", meaning "I AM". Does that mean that he's claiming divinity? No.

Let's say my name is "SwagMaster999", and there are people looking for me and ask me, "Are you SwagMaster999?". I would say 'I AM', but does that mean I'm claiming divinity? Of course not, just answering his question.

And also, if "YHVH" is truly a name, then your scholars should keep it as "YHVH" instead of translating it as "I AM". But seeing they translates it to "I AM", then it not a name, just "I am", nothing special.

Yes, I'm reviewing my post right now

Yeah, abusing is a strong word. I just gave you pic of quotes from the Bible.

>angels
Really? The term is 'men' and 'daughter'. I doubt angel even have the lust to 'came' into 'daughter of men'.

>Israel
No, not the nation, or the race. You know Prophet Jacob? His other name was 'Israel'. This verse even use the word firstborn.

>Adam
Don't forget he's also a pious man

>Psalms
According to google, it refers to David(unless I'm wrong?), it even used the word begotten, the same begotten used for Jesus.

So I rest my case. The term 'Son of God' are idiom. You Christians can't have double standards.

You can't say Jesus is the ONLY Son of Gon when in your own Bible 'God got Sons by the tons'. Be consistent.

American protestants are literally /trash/ tier

>doesn't even understand history
>doesn't understand that Catholics complied the Bible
>most relativist part of Christianity
>televangelist
>prosperity gospel

Answered in the first post. Excellent. Good thread, well done.

What church do you belong to, user?

Any short summary about churches(Catolic, Jehovah, Ludren, ect) that I can read somewhere?

>That's why it was peer-reviewed
Do you know what peer reviewed actually means? It doesn't mean that it's approved as correct by some mysterious authoritative body. All it means is that qualified people in the field have read someone article, and thought it was written well, and that it made its case logically. That doesn't necessarily mean anything; I've read tons of papers that make questionable conclusions based on flawed logic, or who described seriously flawed experiments, but passed peer review because they were organized well and made their case. And this is widely understood in academia, no one thinks passing peer review is a magic stamp of approval that you're right.

If that's your argument for why mythicism is valid, it's seriously weak, and it seems like you don't really know what it means.

>early church
>Roman Catholic Church as it exists today

The two are not synonymous, user.

So you can be an emperors bitch or get cucked by muslims harder than anyone else.

There are peer reviewed papers on all sorts widely dismissed theories.

Now not many scholars think the gospels are a super accurate reflection of Jesus either but they think the man existed.

Oh please, muslim can't cuck shit in Veeky Forums

>worshipping Mary more than Jesus because of one line in the fucking Bible

More stupid things have been done for a single line in the Bible.

It goes against 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me' though surely

So it goes agaisnt a line in the Bible?

delete this

...
......
..........
Fine, I'm sleepy anyway, good night.

Jesus is the Word (λόγος) made flesh (Jn 1:14).

This same Word was with God and was God from the beginning ( ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ἦν ὁ λόγος, kαὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, kαὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. - Jn 1:1).

∴

Jesus is God.

"YHVH" is an transliteration also known as the tetragrammaton for the Hebrew word אֶהְיֶה which roughly translates to "I will be" and comes from the verb stem היה or "to be."

So it is foolish to say:

>Look, if God in exodus stated his name in "I AM WHO I AM", then it should be, "I AM WHO YHVH".

because they LITERALLY mean the same thing because I AM is היה.

When Jesus says "before Abraham was I AM" He is asserting is divinity.