God literally lets good, honest people suffer because of muh free will

>God literally lets good, honest people suffer because of muh free will
Why should i worship such monstrous creature?

same reason you kiss the ass of the guy that pays your wages

I have no material benefits from God.

Don't worry, bad people also suffer just in hell, so he actually doesn't respect free will at all.

because you don't believe in an afterlife

If you've read the bible, it's not clear that god is meant to be good.

I'm not a filthy protestant so I don't read the Bible.

Even if God is bad, he is still the being that give us objective moral system instead of post modernism of cuckery and moral relativism.

God explicitly says in the bible that he does both the good and the evil, he is infinite. One of the implications of being infinite is being both the thesis and the antithesis, he is both good and evil.

What good is goodness if it's just for gain? If people did good and were rewarded for it was it the act that motivated them or the reward?

Not OP, but in that case, how could someone love God?

Sure, worship him out of fear, but love is another story. You may kiss the mean bosses ass, but you sure as hell have no feelings for him.

So by humans standards, by the standard god has for humans, he is not good.

>Even if God is bad, he is still the being that give us objective moral system
Either he IS the objective moral system or morality is still relative.
>some guy is telling me to do a thing or he'll torture me forever therefore morality is objective

>religion
>objective moral system
If God only wanted it, he could wipe out evil and all evil people completely from face of the Earth. But he doesn't want it.

Maybe if you make people suffer, than you love God because he kind of sides with you?

m8 it's literally the first lines of Genesis. God saw that it was good, it was good, everything was good, and it was very good etc etc. The whole Hebrew bible is explicit in making Yahweh a moral good and that everything he does and the people who follow Him are "morally good" which is intentionally done to juxtapose against Polytheist religions whose gods are completely capricious and have no care for humans at all

Yeah, but he's above his own laws in much the same way as a monarch.

It's like saying the Queen is a criminal if she decides to start smoking weed. Just because the public aren't allowed doesn't mean she isn't.

> wipe out evil and all evil people completely
That would be evil act of mass murder, but God is benevolent being so he wouldn't do that.

>I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

A monarch is not above our laws just because they declare it so, neither is god.

Really? He already flooded the Earth and destroyed Sodom because he wanted to make bad people pay.

>create evil

Nice translation bro

Yeah, he would never do something like reap the life of every firstborn child in a city.

>A monarch is not above our laws just because they declare it so
Actually yeah they are. They are the sovereign, they are the state, if they're a proper monarch there would be no one in the land with the authority to enforce any laws on them. If not, then it's a meme-monarchy.

>neither is god.
As a matter of fact god is especially so. Not just because he's omnipotent, but because he's infinite. If he was limited by morality he would be no god at all.

In this way the fact that god is evil only affirms his godhood.

That's the way Jews have historically translated it. It's only Christians translate it as "calamity" because that's more appropriate to Christian understandings of theology, particularly omnibenevolence which is, for lack of a better word, retarded.

They weren't following His "moral good" and he was judging everyone, after Noah he realizes it's tough to get everyone to follow so he funnels all his effort onto Abraham to be his follower and even sees how far he can push him with the Binding of Issac (IT WAS JUST A PRANK BRO) so after that he is only looking to the descendants of Abraham to be his "moral good" and punishes them for straying like the lose of the ten tribes and exile to Babylonia

And gods and monarchs are above morality?

If they declare stabbing children is morally good in itself, it would actually become morally good?

Let's ask the Incas.

So it is morally good to stab random children if you believe god or your monarch told you it was good.

You can't say that gods and monarchs never demand this kind of behavior. The bible is full of it.

>le cuck meme

I'm not the guy you're arguing with, I'm just takin the piss because I saw someone mention child stabbing.

>And gods and monarchs are above morality?
Monarchs no. But they are above the law.
Gods yes. They're above everything.

>If they declare stabbing children is morally good in itself, it would actually become morally good?
Naturally.

>Naturally.

So you are saying god cannot be immoral by definition.

You do not think there is anything morally wrong, there are only some things god orders us not to do?

>implying suffering is evil

>So you are saying god cannot be immoral by definition.
Not necessarily, they can't exactly be moral by definition either. Their decrees on what is and isn't moral are certainly binding to humans but subordinate to god itself. He can't be immoral in the same way a state can't be illegal. By who's authority would they be?

>You do not think there is anything morally wrong, there are only some things god orders us not to do?
I'm an atheist, but if we're to accept that god exists then this is the logical state of god's morality.

And not necessarily again, what god orders us not to do is what's morally wrong.

If we aren't tested, we don't learn. If we don't suffer, we don't grow.

>Not necessarily, they can't exactly be moral by definition either. Their decrees on what is and isn't moral are certainly binding to humans but subordinate to god itself. He can't be immoral in the same way a state can't be illegal. By who's authority would they be?

By my authority. I am a subjective being like god is. I don't accept that you can elevate the subjective outcomes for a very powerful individual to the point of it being objective morality.

Without suffering we would learn nothing

>I don't accept that you can elevate the subjective outcomes for a very powerful individual to the point of it being objective morality.
Yeah you can.

I don't want to burn in hell
God says I will if I don't do what he says.
Ergo everything god says is right.

You mean god decided to create a universe where suffering and learning go together, rather than one where suffering did not exist.

Would you rather commit an immoral act than burn in hell?

Would you want to go to heaven on the basis of committing immoral acts?

Why is suffering bad

>believing the human conscious is separate from cause and effect

The lowliest of pleb opinions

Absolutely.

Morality is a spook and with god's help I'm going to get mine. No warm fuzzies on the planet are worth eternal unfathomable torture.

You do not avoid suffering?

Yes, I also avoid cucumber but I don't resent God for creating it.

>Thinks there are good people.

>Not aware that he is evil.