Would Europe, and thus humanity, be more or less advanced if Christianity had never existed?

If only they didn't went full "let's go to IKEA for our legions"

Probably the same. The thing about missionary religions is that they won't let you exist if you choose not to join the club. If Europe never became Christian, it probably would've went Muslim.

That is if Islam could've been created in a world without Christianity.

maybe this is a misconception but isn't islam as we know it a lot older then Christianity?

>kikes
>relevant in a non christian world.

>what is shit tier province judea

Islam started around 600 years after Christianity, amigo.

Islam was created in like 600 AD... Christianity, 0.

There is no "year 0" in the Julian/Gregorian calendar

Also Christianity technically would've began till about year 30, since the resurrection of Jesus is the central concept of it

Probably less, without monks recording shit.
Unless there were some other kind of monks, then it'd be about the same.

Probably the same, the only difference is that europe would be mithraic

We would be colonizing space if it weren't for jesusniggers fucking up.

THIS THIS THIS

/thread

no

Fedoras pls go

>ITT, fedoras forget about the caliphates again

Fuck you Seth

>>prevent everybody else from reading and writing
>Churches were the first to provide primary education to the masses

this meme will fix this misconception

But your abusive Catholic Daddy would still be a abusive and you would still be a fedora except you would be blaming Pagan Rome for your Autism

This meme implies that China and arabs are subhumans that can't develop shit. Aren't these people against racism

Christianity allowed Europe to conquer the world once the technology got to guns, so I'd say we'd more than likely simply be in a more shitty position of fighting with the natives in some shit-holes.

Turns out casting a ton of progressively more massive church bells helps your metal-working skills which are invaluable once you start making cannons and giant metallic machines behind the industrial revolution.

You can thank protestant for starting this myth to smear the Catholic Church as being oppressive.
This was especially true in the US were you had anti-Catholic sentiment for decades, and they wanted be smarter than "backwards" Catholic Europe.

>no unifying cause against Muslims
They could create another religion, which is less orthodox and de-centralized in nature and focused on more philosophical beliefs, and have it as a Continental religion. Plus, they don't need Christianity as to unite them--there's various other things they could utilized to argue against it.

The Catholic church and Orthodox split did far more damage unifying the continent than unifying it.

Notice how the phrases where Europe was the most strongest was when there were less orthodox and theocratic religions in charge of the state? Case and proof:
>Rome - no orthodox religion about the specific tradition of every deity. Powerful
>Late antiquity - Christianity established and dominated but not entirely canonized or orthodox. Stagnant.
>Early to mid Middle-Ages -- Catholic church established and unified, large amount of land loss. Weak
>Middle to late Middle ages -- Great Schism, Orthodox and Catholic church loosen up their rules in some aspects for competition. Europe experiences occasional short-last Renaissances here and there. Stronger.
>Early modern age -- Protestantism rises and spurs European powers being global ones once again because it allows rulers to do whatever they want and doesn't cuck them on usury / borrowing restrictions. Coincides with the Renaissance.
>Enlightenment -- Protestantism orthodoxy allows free-thought better and less centralized control. Catholicism deregulates it-self to compete and make sure the rulers in the lands they dominate don't kick them out for being overtly influential and adopt some Protestant sect. Europe is a global power.
>Industrialization / pre-Modern (1750 - 1900) -- secularization has taken place in many nations and the Catholic church has become just a take-at-home practice religion like Protestantism and doesn't get involved in most of the States it's in. Orthodox Christians will suck-off anyone who lets them in. Europe is a historic unprecedented global power.

Mohammed literally wrote about Jesus and Christianity, how could he have possibly preceded it?

It was actually the enlightement shitters who started the meme.

This is why you read books, stop listening to post on /pol/ or facebook, damn senpai.

That seems a little specific, user.

You okay?

Well when you actually read history books, instead of reactionary apologetics by Chesterton, Stark, and other clowns; you'll see the Catholic church had long eras of violent repression, and acted as a financial parasite on the rest of Europe by the 15th century. The amount of money being sucked into Rome was among the primary causes of the rise of the Reformation movement, along with European nationalism; as Germans were tired of seeing Italian cardinals impoverishing their country through the endless levying of mandatory tithes and indulgences.

I guarantee neither you, nor the goof who replied to you, are over the age of 18. If you are, you should feel ashamed.

>the Catholic Church was a selfless tool of enlightenment
>the Catholic Church was an evil tool of repression
I think, to be fair, that the truth lies somewhere between the two.

Reality is rarely so obliging as to give us a comfortable definitive.

>Ignoring Academy and Library of Alexandria existed

>the Catholic Church was a selfless tool of enlightenment
I just don't know how people can try to defend the Vatican when from it's inception to 1700 it was a corrupt power scheme unlike anything before seen in Europe.
You can look at Popes like Alexander Sixtus, and be surprised by his appalling levels of corruption, but you go on and read about all the other popes, save two or three extremely pious ones, and they're all not that different, corrupt, conniving and all while under the guise of Christianity, who's core tenants are so antithetical to how the popes and their underlings acted for centuries

>isn't islam as we know it a lot older then Christianity
Muslims claim that Islam is the oldest religion.In reality it is one of the newest

but let me be clear, even though it was an insanely corrupt hegemony that did far more harm than good, what it used to be has nothing to do what it currently is, which today is a force of good.

The modern Church is nothing like what it used to and it's past shouldn't be used to demonize it, for now they're a major charitable, harmonizing and educational force. Some of the best schools are Catholic Academies, collegiate and preparatory.

I'm not even catholic, but they're a major cultural influence, and if gone, nothing could fill that huge void.

Reddit: the picture

Who preserved nearly all the knowledge and art and History we have from the Ancient World when Vandals and Goths and other Pagans were rampaging across Europe putting History to the torch?

Christian monks. That's why the Vatican is so rich now, and why they have so much priceless treasure.

So just try not being a Historical retard next time. Don't settle for pseudo intellectualism, the real thing is within reach.

>goths and other pagans
But these all already converted to something, the goths were arian cristians fucking up the trinitarian romans.

see

I don't think Europe would recover from the collapse of the Roman Empire without Christianity. Bishops were pretty much the only legitimate authority around besides robbing warrior bands for centuries in much of Western Europe. That's how the Church got so influent and powerful in the first place.

>If the age of reason would have come early and no religion would have been in place, then yes, much more advanced.

That is a fallacy as well - history does not play out like a game of civilization.

What do you call the god they all worship? YAHWEH? Because, maybe yeah without him. But Europe, in the grand scale, did not invent shit.

TO THE MASSES

Same. Some other kind of bullshit would have been in its place. Whatever humans don't know, they'll assert in its place as truth.

Early Christianity was strictly opposed to the values which made early science in the pagan world possible. However, the driving force behind the Dark Ages was the collapse of the Roman empire. I doubt that the other religions of the time would have fared much better.

Rome would not have fallen if it hadn't been corrupted by Christians, so yes.

True didn't fully considered it
But I still honestly can't see a way to replace the unification against Islam
Like what would have motivated anyone to :
Retake Spain
Take Jerusalem
The latter seems quite important Imo since it got more ideas spread around

Of course. Islam has always been the ultimate truth, we just didn't know until Allah gave his divine revelation to Muhammad PBUH through the angel Gabriel.

You had me up until the nationalism part user.
Nationalism wasn't an intrinsic concept until the 19th century really.
Also there were other very important issues that led to the reformation other than church taxes.

There could have been an industrial revolution in Roman times. It is possible.

Not intristic but the holy roman empire already called itself the holy roman empire of the german nation by the late 15th century and german poets use language seperating people of "german tongue" from others by also assuming there are german lands they belong to.

>Pagan Rome
>Science
""No"""

Are you seriously suggesting that there was no science in the pagan world?

Of course not you filthy tree worshiping pagan, science is a christian thing.

???
ancient.eu/Roman_Science/

Your trolling needs a lot of work

>We would be colonizing space if it weren't for jesusniggers fucking up.
Then why didn't Asia advance way before us instead?

steppe horseniggers(which were a nightmare for Europe) and non-arian germanics were still pagan, though.

nah, the steam ball was a trinket. The metalurgy wasn't advanced enough for proper engines.
Besides, you had no reason to invest in early, shitty machines when you are running a massive slave economy.

Yeah, thats true, I wonder though which germanics were pagan and which christian, as the bulk of them that left germania for the mediterran seems to have been christian or at least syncretic in some form.

impossible to find out, imo.
Ironically, when germanics were trinitarian, they were pretty into roman culture and legacy(Amalasuntha, Holy Roman Empire of the Germans, etc.)

Secularism has been so good for western society it's practically self evident that we would be thousands of years more advanced if Christianity never existed.

>>monastery schools/libraries never existed

just throwing this out there... I'm not taking a side, just stating a fact.

No Christianity - No Islam
No Christianity - No Universities
No Christianity - No Holocaust/destruction of jews/world war 2/ launch into rocket age

cant wait for him to sign with evilangel

youre retarded

>No Papacy to keep Europe culturally United after the Fall of the Roman Empire, preserving literacy
>No Theodosian Walls to keep Huns out of Byzantium

These kinds of "what if" questions are useless and history is ill-equipped to answer them. Unless you have a time machine or a dimension hopper or a perfectly simulation of our universe, it's impossible to answer. It could be that if a butterfly didn't flap its wings at 3:10 PM on March 15st 1986 then World War 3 would have broken out and humanity would have been wiped out from a nuclear armageddon.

>muh chaos theory

That's hard to tell, there are pros and cons.

Christianity allowed the barbarian peoples adopt some parts of the Roman civilization, and create Europe as we know it today. It provided a link between antiquity and the Middle Ages.

On the other hand, it didn't bring unity at all. Countries kept fighting each other just like before, and now they did in the name of God. Christianity had infighting during its history than any other religion. The Crusaders ended up turning on Byzantium. Fucking France was allied with the Turks for 200 years.

>muh preserved texts

Expect Christians also erased a lot of ancient knowledge. They have wiped the contents of parchments so they could write their own stuff on it. They have destroyed the Library of Alexandria. Throughout their history, especially in the early centuries, Christians have shown extreme intolerance towards anything non-Christian.

Perhaps it was necessary and worth it. Perhaps montheism is key component in the development of civilization. It's a hard issue.

>Throughout their history, especially in the early centuries
That's the thing. People are trying to summarize a long historical period, full of events and changes, 500-1500, in just a few words. They pick and choose the period and region that suits their worldview like or those from OPs picture.