What's the verdict on Varangians? Do East Slavs really have viking heritage...

In Russian sources any people that lived around Baltic Sea could be called Varangians. But the most of mercenary warriors were of Scandinavian origin.

His genetical markers are the most conflicting thing when compared to the stories and depictions of him. By his genetics he was form a strain of populus in the area of western coast of Finland which again would mean he'd be a decendant of a Swede/finn most likely. Maybe vikings took some finnic tribe as slaves and Rurik was a rapebaby of some sort? Really fires up my neurons.

They were culturally Slavic by the 3rd generation.

There's no conflict. His haplogroup is consistent with an origin in Roden/Roslagen and only plausible with Finland as there was movement between them.

A considerable percentage of ethnic Swedes from the lands of the former Rus and nearby areas like Hälsingland carries the same marker as Rurik and 1000 years ago it may have been much higher.

Rurik was finngolian, really, look at his face

I am convinced.

Ivan Grozny claimed that Rurik was from Prussia. Early Romanovs also claimed that their ancestors were from Prussia. Prussia was completely unimportant in their times.

Prussia was first time annexed by Russia in 18th century during Seven Years' War and didn't have land connection with other Russian territory. Then it was annexed after WWII and added to Russian Republic inside USSR. Did Russian rulers know something?

Prussians were Balts and had a lot of N1c1.

Novgorod Slovens who invited Rurik where settlers from southern coast of Baltic Sea, so they lived near Prussians and knew them well. You would not invite complete stranger to be your king.

For Slavs it was easier to accept Balts as their leaders because of some cultural similarity. History repeated itself some time later when Lithuania had started to unify Russian lands.

Prussia and Russia. Do you think it's just coincidence?

There are too many factors for me that point to Prussia as the origin of Rus.

>Prussians were Balts and had a lot of N1c1.

But none of the right kind which is found in Sweden and Finland.
It's like saying Cameroon has a lot of R1b so king Niall the ancestor of many Irish had to be from Cameroon.

Actually southern Balts have the right kind.
On the other hand N1c1 in Sweden are too small in numbers.

N1c1 ultimately originated in Siberia/East Asia.

People need to stop correlating genetic markers with linguistic affinity or a limited geographical location.

You fail to understand the distribution of N1c in Sweden. It's only 7% overall but almost all of it is in the region where the Rus were from while very little is scattered across southern Sweden. I could imagine the contrast being even higher a thousand years ago before the Geats and Svea, and Scanian Danes were united.

>yfull.com/tree/N-TAT/
Finnish samples are downstream of Russians,though there are some Russians who are downstream of Finns.

Does anyone know Rurik's N TAT subclade?

Explain the Norse names of Rurikids

>Prussia and Russia. Do you think it's just coincidence?
It literally is a coincidence. The names only sound alike in English.

It's all pretty complex and it's best to not jump into simple conclusions if you don't understand everything. Anyone who understands the haplogroup tree would conclude Rurik was from Sweden.

>You would not invite complete stranger to be your king.
The story goes that Rurik was their king to begin with, they expelled him, started fighting among themselves and invited him back to establish order.

A google search seems to name N-L550+ L1025-as the likely candidate.

If that's the case then Rurkids are descended from N-VL29 who is ancestral to the Finnish.

The Prussia theory is bunk.

How are they Norse?

Generally speaking, massive shifts in the genetic makeup of a population are rare, even in massive sustained military occupations. A small group like the Varangians would have negligible impact.

Besides which, doing your heritage by genetics is stupid anyway.

There's a lack of samples from Estonia.
Ruriks L550 ancestors most likely arrived to Sweden from Estonia in large numbers in the middle of the 1st millenium BC.

From chronicle:
"Those Varangians are called Rus the same way like others are called Svee (Swedish), others Urmans (Romans), others Anglos, and others Goths"

So Rus were distinguished from Swedish.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svealand

Roden-Roslagen was an integral part of Svealand at least after the Viking age.

So they enslaved some Finnic tribe and let their men impregnate their women? Something doesn't add up here.

It's Swedish damage control to try to claim that particular subclade as Swedish, it's definitely of Uralic origin and could very well represent a branch of Finnics in Sweden that got assimilated.

Everything adds up if you read actual archeologists and linguists instead of Veeky Forums shitposts on Veeky Forums.

From page 63 onwards

oulu.fi/sites/default/files/content/CIFU12-PlenaryPapers.pdf

Aggressive colonization from Estonia circa 600 BC matches perfectly with the molecular age estimates of the Sweden specific haplogroup N branches.

>Anyone who understands
No, you don't understand. Ethnic and linguistic groups don't have single Y-DNA ancestor like Adam. So your tree is nonsense.

No ones saying it's not originally Uralic/Finnic but you have to understand that there's a very long gap between Rurik and his Finnic speaking ancestors.
He was a typical a man from his region and if anyone should get to say "Rurik was one of us" it would be the native Swedes of the region but not those from further south.

Y-DNA mutations correlate with geographical regions and every single one has a specific point of origin.
Generally there is only one language spoken in any particular place although sometimes there could be more.

Every single one of the mutations in that tree is linked with a location, people and language.

The Y-chromosome is all of ~200 genes and does not determine ethnic nor genetic makeup.

Because, you know, you inherit genetic material from more than just distant MLAs or FLAs.

How much of Rurik's line was polluted with native Estonian or after him, Slav? We will never know. 800–500 BC (not 600 you fucking autist) to ~830AD gives 1130-1430 years worth of potential admixture between colonizers and colonized with a certain percentage still carrying haplogroup N so long as the male line survived viably.

You can certainly prove the haplogroup originated from Sweden all you like, but it's still quite irrelevant as to ETHNICITY unless we're talking full SNP array, which you haploautists never understand nor post on here for some strange reason (apparently human genetics only begin and end with how hard you can shitpost """""""facts""""""" on Veeky Forums).

Look, I don't really care about ethnic makeup of his descendants or ancestors.

There has been a controversy about where Rurik was from and it didn't start on Veeky Forums-
Some Russians thought he was a Slav and that the "Normanist theory" was a hoax.
Some Finns incorrectly claim he was a Finn because they don't understand or want to understand anything more than that he was haplogroup N.

Others think he was from Denmark because there was some Danish king called Hroerik.

The Rurikid Y-DNA project has effectively proved that all these theories were wrong and that he was from Sweden and I think that should finally end the controversy but people don't want to understand evidence that is contrary to their bias.

People spread misconceptions about ethnicity because retards like you equate haplogroup to ethnicity.

The truth is, haplogroup is just a small bundle of relatively unchanging genetic material that geneticists find useful to track ancient population movements and ancestries.

Rurik having haplogroup N =! Rurik being "Swedish" or "Estonian" or "Finn" or "Slavs". You retards see haplogroups and try to shoehorn your nationalist tripe into them, to the detriment of scientists who actually understand this shit.

We are talking about a very specific set of mutations here not some 50000 year old megahaplogroup found from Australia to Iceland.

Yes it doesn't prove it 100% but makes it extremely likely.

In theory Ruriks paternal Great-Great-Grandfather could have moved from Sweden to Portugal and Rurik would have been 15/16 Portuguese with the exact same Y-DNA but that is not a likely scenario and we can't put it on the same level of possibility as that he was from Sweden.

Rich countries have more samples. After finding a dozen of suitable subjects they start "we wuz Rurikids". How about to make enough test in other countries before drawing conclusions.

Yeah but its bigger chance that he is from one of those haploshits than not being. Besides Finno Ugrics have been treated like shit for past 500 years so let them have something for them.

>prussia and russia. Do you think it's just a coincidence?

Since that's because of britbong translators and they're actually know as Preußen (Preussen) and Rossiya, yes.

Viking ruling class.

Hrorek, Ingvar and Helgi.

Why do you think German name is more important than English? Germans were not natives there. Also what important is names of the people.
Prussian - Prußen ß is pronounced as S
Russian - Russen
So even in German it's is pronounced the same except P.

Who are those people?

According to Ioachim Chronicle, Gostomysl was ruler of Ilmen Slovens. He had daughter Umila, she married the chief of one of West Slavic tribes Gotslav, they had son Rurik.

So you're saying that Gotslav gotcucked?

>Some Finns incorrectly claim he was a Finn because they don't understand or want to understand anything more than that he was haplogroup N.
I think it's just one guy

>For Slavs it was easier to accept Balts as their leaders because of some cultural similarity.
Any source on this? Why then would the finnic tribes of the area accept a balt who was close to the slavs as their leader?

>muh miscegenation

probably happened, people didn't give a fuck about who they were fucking - especially if they were conquerors/overlords. Marriage and all that is an entirely different matter, but it's not like they didn't have mistresses

Because Balts are half-Finns half-Slavs.

There were 4 tribes which invited Rurik: Rus', Slovens, Krivichs and Chud' (Finnic).
So Rus' already lived there, Rurik just brought additional people with him.