Is this true about China?

HOR UP WE WUZ EMPRARS N SHITTO

This is a ridiculous conclusion. Just because their are grey areas where ethic distinction become shady doesn't mean you can't separate groups based on ethnic or national lines.

It also doesn't account for various nuances and gradations of race or ethnicity within various groups.

Not to mention that genetic tests blow your argument out of the water since we can gather DNA tests and determine someone's heritage down to the last percentage.

Nobody believes in absolute purity, but we can 100% distinguish between different groups.

>everyone either has the same genetics as their ancestors 4000 years ago, or they aren't related

/pol/ logic

>Nobody believes in absolute purity, but we can 100% distinguish between different groups.
Define "groups"

...

>" "

What did he mean by this?

It means you're gay.

Problem is the nomads that invaded China weren't that far off the original stock of northern China.

Erlitou and Yanshi mtdna clusters with Northern Han and Eastern Inner Mongolians.

What about Southern Han?

>What about Southern Han?
Han around the middle/lower Yangzi have minor southern admixture.

Han south of the Yangzi has a significant Hmong Mien/Tai Kadai substratum.

Then whose the "purest" or "original" Han? North? South? Middle?

none they're mixed mongrels

So... Mister Third Reich Samurai was correct after all?

yes

>Then whose the "purest" or "original" Han? North? South? Middle?
Northern Han would probably be the closest. Han as an ethnic identity arose during the Northern Wei.

Anthropological as well as genetic studies have confirmed the northern affinity of ancient Chinese(Erlitou,Yanshi,Yinxu) in the case of Yinxu they may even be more northern than modern day Han of the same region.

What is clear is ancient Sinitics assimilated the Rong(Gansu) and Di(Northern Shanxi/Shaanxi,Hebei.Central Inner Mongolia) populations before expanding into the Yangzi river valley.

What is now upper/central/lower Yangzi always had a large agricultural population(Shu,Chu,Wu) but they were also the primary destination of northern emigres.

>Just because their are grey areas where ethic distinction become shady
It's all grey areas, there are no pure whites and there are no pure blacks, only different degrees of presence of tiny %s of some genes between different groups.

>Not to mention that genetic tests blow your argument out of the water since we can gather DNA tests and determine someone's heritage down to the last percentage.
>Nobody believes in absolute purity, but we can 100% distinguish between different groups.
No, you just know that some combinations of genes are more common in certain groups and by looking at someone's genome you can infer with a great degree of confidence that they are related to that certain group than someone without the same genetic markers. But you can be white or black without having most associated genetic markers because we don't call people white or black according to genotype but according to phenotype.

Yes.

Unfortunately for Samuraiman, Chineseness had nothing to do with race.
>Be Mongol/Manchu/Hui/Uyghur/Iranic Barbarian/Southern Tribal Nignog.
>You Confucian and believe in Social Philosophies?
Yeah?
>Think Chinese culture is the tits? You know your classics?
Sure
>Can you write in Chinkscript? The script of the realm designed to communicate to a multilingual ream?
A bit, I guess.
>Finally- and this is very, very, very important- are you subject to, and loyal to the bearer of the Mandate and ruler of China and promise not to start shit?
Sure.

Congrats. You're Chinese. Wansui.

Thinking in terms of race and nation is literally Westerncucked by 19th Century Nationalism Rhetoric. Something everyone in Asia did. Japan very much so. Sure, the old Chinese Empire waved Han culture above all others, but it extended the Chinese card to Non-Hans freely so long as they are loyal and acceded to the culture. With the exception of the Yuan Mongols, there was no race-based caste/preference system. There's just the Emperor and the Subjects, whoever they are.

tl;dr Chineseness is cultural.

This

>inb4 /pol/weebs shitposting

Chinese is both a culture and a race with a defacto emphasis on the Han ethnicity. The fact that other 'barbarians' were accepted was because they looked like the Han. There is no way they would accept a mandate to anyone that doesn't look like the Han. Just like the modern day, no matter how long a white guy remains in China and knows the language, he will never be considered 'Chinese,' in the traditional sense unless you're talking about millenial Chinese who have been influenced by liberal western culture.

>The fact that other 'barbarians' were accepted was because they looked like the Han
I can fucking assure you none of the "ethnic Han" thought arr barbarians rook same, in fact they doubted if some of them were even human.

>Chinese is both a culture and a race with a defacto emphasis on the Han ethnicity.
The Han ethnicity was irrelevant until the late Qing/Republican era,Sinitic speakers would much rather identify with their hometown,geographically area(Wu etc.) or a dynasty.

Not to the mention the historical definition of Han is limited to the Central Plains.

What are you talking about? They engaged in political marriages to people like the Xiongnu and Tibetans as it befit them, and they also engaged in trade as necessary. Are you getting this stuff from a book written by a white guy or actual Chinese sources?

I think Samurai-sama was referring to the frequent mass rapes of the Chinese population by invading nomadic hordes. I don't think he was referring to cultural assimilation. The fact that there is such a huge ethnic disparity between the northern and southern populations of China is proof that a lot of rape occurred.

basically:
the north are raped by steppechinks
the south are raping junglechinks
Haku Zynkoku was right

>The fact that there is such a huge ethnic disparity between the northern and southern populations of China is proof that a lot of rape occurred.
Kek. More like the further south you go the higher chance the ethnic Han of that region are hill tribe larpers.

No one in their right mind would think Qin/Han terracottas are closer to modern day southern Han. I say this as a Min speaker.

read the post I already made.
There are anthropological/genetic studies that show ancient Chinese in modern day Henan that are even more "northern" than modern day Henan Han.

There are plenty of records of backmigrations from the middle/lower Yangzi.

Why can't you be more proud of your nomadic ancestry?

>Why can't you be more proud of your nomadic ancestry?
Why don't people actually provide proof of the nomadic heritage of northern Chinese?

Erlitou mtDNA actually clusters the closest with Inner Mongolians,Liaoning Han and Shandong Han.

The early Chinese were of northern stock who expanded into pastoralist territory(who were formerly millet farming agriculturalists like the Chinese).

Erlitou is obviously Mongolian.

It's true, but the thing is there is no original Chinese. It is a culture that gradually absorped neighboring polities and states, same as much of the world.

>Liaoning Han and Shandong Han.

They're also descended from Mongolians.

>Erlitou is obviously Mongolian.
retard

>They're also descended from Mongolians.
Nope,take a good look at Northern Han ydna and compare them with Mongols.

Mongolian C clades are downstream of East Asians.

This

The Chinese race can be likened to a delicious cherry pie. There were originally 6 slices of the pie, but every once in a while, a group of barbarians came and ate a slice of the cherry pie. However, they left a slice of their own pie, but of a different variety such as apple or lemon meringue. Eventually, no more slices of the cherry pie remained. In it's place was an assortment of different pies.

You are retarded.

Sinitic either came from the northwest(Qinghai/Gansu) or southwest(Sichuan) to reach the Central Plains where they assimilated the local inhabitants(possible relation to Austroasiatic,Hmong mien or Tai Kadai based on Old Chinese loans).

These early Sinitics(Erlitou,early Shang Yanshi and late Shang Yinxu) share their ancestry with agriculturalists polities(cultures in Gansu,Hebei,Ordos etc.) on the periphery of the Sinitic world begin pastoralizing under the pressure of Shang hegemony and steppe invaders.

During the late Shang/Western Zhou numerous campaigns are made against the natives of the Huai and Shandong(Yi people) are gradually brought under the Zhou cultural order.

The now pastoralized Rong-Di are subsumed by aggressive Sinitic polities such as the Qin,Jin and Yan.

With the unification of China the Qin incorporate the semi-barbarian Chu who previously conquered the lower Yangzi(Wu,Yue).

Mongolic and Tungusic invaders would derive a portion of their ancestry from the former agriculturalists/pastoralists in Inner Mongolia/Liaoning.

There's pie continuation so it's okay tho.

The pie analogy is better.

they left a pile of shit, not a slice of their own pie

I don't think they have a pie to begin with.

>I think Samurai-sama was referring to the frequent mass rapes of the Chinese population by invading nomadic hordes.
Aryan Samurai equated Chineseness = Race. Ergo he is wrong.

In the economic* sense

No Chinese minority ruler actually made a profound impact on Chinese cultural life, they all get assimilated or "sinicised"

Please stop repeating this meme. Mao is just another person in the Chinese cyclical history of legalism and Confucianism for the former, just like how Trump is another member in the Schlesingerian wheel of American politics

This

>Google "Chinese dress"

First result.

>Song dynasty
>invents gunpowder
>loses to mongols
>hundreds of years pass
>Ming come to power
>by now EU cannons are superior

Yeah they sure didnt have a profound impact, being ruled by highway robbers...

>Forced every single male in the world's biggest population to change their hairstyle

Yep. No profound impact at all.

I mean I know what you're getting at but there are better examples of Qing and Yuan changing china

Cannons first showed up under the Yuan Dynasty, plebbo. Earlier under the Song, it was rockets, bombs - handheld & catapult launched- firelances, and handcannons. Under the Yuan, the Chinese tinkerers went "what if we made bigger handcannons?" and voila, the first cannon: the crouching tiger hupao (lit. fire artillery).

Turns out "hampering weapons development" isn't a policy of the Yuan Mongols.

Wow, so fucking relevant. Very evident about how Manchus- who lost their language & culture by their own will- impacted the lives of Chinese greater than the culture did to them.

"No"

>Chinese is both a culture and a race with a defacto emphasis on the Han ethnicity. The fact that other 'barbarians' were accepted was because they looked like the Han.
>Gives titles and positions to whitish looking Uighur/Sogdian/Iranic nobles who submitted to the Emperor
What did he mean by this?

>Chinese is both a culture and a race with a defacto emphasis on the Han ethnicity. The fact that other 'barbarians' were accepted was because they looked like the Han.
>The Han race alone varies from typical East Asian look to Southeast Asian tier brown.
What did he mean by this?

Mandarin was heavily influenced by the Manchu language.

>The Han race alone varies from typical East Asian look to Southeast Asian tier brown.

Uhh isn't that proof that the Han race isn't a race considering all the genetic differences?

Wrongo. Sure loanwords here and there, but the Manchu language disappeared due to Mandarin by the 1800s. Hell in the 1700s only the Qing Imperial Clan were speaking it.

>every single male

Incorrect

theepochtimes.com/n3/1474310-manchuria-the-manchus-and-what-it-means-to-be-chinese/

>"Mandarin, the official language of China that boasts over 800 million native speakers, owes much of its phonology and vocabulary to the influence of such “barbarian” tongues."

Read up. The user above pointed out that historically Chineseness was cultural rather than ethnocentric. Then some cunt replied to him and literally used the "all asians rook arike" argument.

>theepochtimes

Might as well quote buzzfeed

>owes much of its phonology and vocabulary to the influence of such “barbarian” tongues.
Yeah, the fucking Turkshits and other Steppeniggers during the Nanbeichao period which caused the language divide in North and South. Not the Manchus. Niggers were fucking late.

The pie analogy would be fitting if the cherry flavor managed started out as one slice and gradually replaced all other slices.

People don't seem to realize that the barbarians that invaded China were literally right next door sharing prehistoric ancestry with the Chinese.

>Turkshits and other Steppeniggers
Qiang and Di are Tibeto Burmans. Jie is Yenesian,Xiongnu may be Yenesian or Turkic. Xianbei is Mongolic.

Southern Chinese languages already diverged due to local substratum influences(Chu,Wu,Min etc.)

There was at least 3 varieties of Sinitic spoken in the southern dynasties(a northern tongue by the Jiankang elite,a local Wu language and a local Eastern Chu(Huai region) language)

That's not including divergent Sinitic topolects further south such as Xi(Hunan),Min(Fujian) or even non Sinitic(Liao,Man etc.)

...

>shared prehistoric ancestry

>shared prehistoric ancestry
What else do you what to call the recent East Asian component in Mongolic/Tungusic speaking ethnicities? mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/04/21/molbev.msw055.full

Yinxu(late Shang),Dadianzi(Liaoning agriculturalists) and Jingouzi(Ordos pastoralists) share mtDNA. academia.edu/5297877/2013_AAPA_poster-_Preliminary_Research_on_Hereditary_Features_of_Yinxu_Population

>tfw an user BTFO your shitposting

autism

>Jingouzi(Ordos pastoralists)
Made a mistake.Zhukaigou not Jingouzi.

white, nigger, jew, asian

Not really. He's only coming off as a massive autistic loser.

>Barbarian hordes conquered and raped Chinese people throughout history, but it doesn't really count because they shared similar DNA 7000 years ago.

lol ridiculous

They got QINGed and YUANed.

>>Barbarian hordes conquered and raped Chinese people throughout history,
Who's denying nomadic Mongolics and agriculturalist Tungusics invaded northern China?

If you look at the Yuan and Qing conquest they were mainly done by ethnic Han.

>but it doesn't really count because they shared similar DNA 7000 years ago.
All I'm claiming is

1.Modern day northern Han are representative of ancient Chinese not central or southern Han.

2.The Chinese expanded north into areas that have contributed ancestry to those very same invaders(diluting whatever admixture took place).

3.Invaders were heavily outnumbered by the indigenous population despite famine/massacres.

4.Modern day northern Han have southern admixture from backmigrations from the Huai and lower/middle Yangzi.

6.Anyone who thinks northern Chinese = Mongol rape baby needs to get their head checked.

the cherry pie got replaced by blueberry and blackberry pies

t. autist

No, it's absolute horseshit. Everyone knows that China was founded by Africans whose history was erased by the yellow Han """Chinese""" invaders who removed all traces of Afro heritage.

they're related but aren't exactly the same aren't they?
fight me you fag

>they're related but aren't exactly the same aren't they?
No ethnic group is the same as their ancestors from thousands of years ago(unless they remain geographically isolated).

What does original Chinese even mean?

If in the future. Russians invaded China, Chinese will call those guys "Han people" too. It's just a defense mechanism of those shameless chinks

>ywn be a Manchu warrior burning down Beijing, raping Chinese babes, and eating delicious Chinese cherry pie

>"Han people" too
They don't though. It was the conquerors calling the local Sinitic speakers of the Central Plains "Han" because of the Han dynasty.

So called "Han" identified with their city,local region or a fallen political identity.

>other peoples decide to become "Chinese"
>get mad at the Chinese for that happening

Shit just happens, user. Sometimes steppe nomads decide to settle down, and then sometimes faggots like you are born.

>ywn be a Manchu warrior burning down Beijing, raping Chinese babes, and eating delicious Chinese cherry pie
tfw Li Zicheng already beat you to it

T. butt-mad chinks

I supose he's talking about some concept of "purity", because there are absolutely people descended from those original natives of the region, even if they are mixed with Mongolians and other invading forces. And not only that, that is incredibly common in human history, and it's doubtful that there's any harm in it.

t. gook

The ironic thing is the Japanese are the farthest thing from a pure race.

The original Japonic speakers came from southern/central Korea before they assimilated the indigenous Jomon populations.

That's not including Koreans from the Three kingdoms era or Joseon dynasty.

Was stopped Japs in WW II a big mistake ?

This thread is the evidence that they did nothing wrong.

Wow you sure showed them

>ywn be a Manchu warrior burning down Beijing, raping Chinese babes, and eating delicious Chinese cherry pie
Kek, other war around.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Banners#Conquest_of_the_Ming
"Ming defectors played a massive role in the Qing conquest of China. Han Chinese generals who defected to the Manchus were often given women from the Imperial Aisin Gioro family in marriage while the ordinary soldiers who defected were given non-royal Manchu women as wives."

When the Ming collapsed into Southern Ming and Li Zicheng's Shun dynasty, the Manchus - who by this point crossed the greatwall and out of the Northern Chinese plains- which rendered their cavalry inferior, had to have artillerymen and gunners. Chinese had loads of it and ergo Hong Taiji - the first Qing Emperor- needed the full cooperation of the Chinese. In addition to Manchu identity still being very nascent, this btfo any notions of creating a "Manchu Empire" like the Mongs.

>So many Han defected to the Qing and swelled up the ranks of the Eight Banners that ethnic Manchus became a minority within the Banners, making up only 16% in 1648, with Han bannermen dominating with 75% and Mongol Bannermen making up the rest.[12][13] It was this multi-ethnic force, in which Manchus were only a minority, which conquered China for the Qing.[14]

tl;dr Manchus practiced state-sponsored cuckoldry.

The did get culturally Khan'd and Qing'd But i don't think it shows too much in the genetics since nomad tribes weren't very numerous compared tot eh chinese population. The culture tho. Also Gommunism

5 star post
/pol/ on suicide watch

You just proved the OP's point about Chinese not being pure. Someone here mentioned that Japanese people are mixed. However the mixing and immigration occurred before the creation of Japanese identity. Once the Japanese identity was formed the Japanese retained the purity of their blood. The same cannot be said for any other Asians.

Someone making you wear a dress & a new haircut < Your whole culture vanishing because it got assimilated in the Chinese collective.

Sounds like the Manchus were just a bunch of opportunistic cunts who took advantage of a power vacuum. The fact that their language and culture are dead and extinct is proof of their civilizational weakness.