Is there morality without god?

is there morality without god?

No. Impossible.

There would be no objective basis for morality; what one man called good another man could call evil, and there would be no way to mediate between them. You would end up with situational ethics, moral relativism and "might makes right".

It wouldn't be any objective morality with God either since what's good and bad would be what he feels like and be able to change at any point if he felt for it.

Yeah. There is morality. But even as an atheist, I would worry if everyone in society was an atheist.

That you think God is wishy washy tells me you don't know God. You might even think it's not possible for anyone to know God.

Define morality.

>Tells the Jews not to murder or rape
>Immediately tells them to go murder and rape
Uh huh. Divine Command theory is garbage and doesn't answer anything.

Absolutely.

God judged those evil and wicked Amorites for 400 years and they never repented. They deserved to die. The Hebrews were the instrument of God's judgment.

So, not murder.

Taking foreign women to be your wife is not rape. It's not only saving her life, but it's adding to the gene pool. So, again, a good thing.

You think God is evil.

Are you not evil?

You don't seem to understand that all of these things are simply rationalizations and justifications within the human social world.

It literally doesn't matter whether someone says "God commanded me to murder", and "I just wanted to murder people".

It's still murder, and it's still wrong.

>The Hebrews were the instrument of God's judgment
Translation: ME JEW CAN KILL NONJEW ALL I WANT.

Yes. If you believe that God is a human construct, then you know morality is too. If you choose to believe morality is a gift from God, even better. Either way, morality exists.

What is the difference between asking whether there's morality without God, and asking whether there are numbers without God? Seems like you could give answers with similar reasoning to both questions.

>weed in front of buddha

raging at this oxymoron

>Every genocide in history that's uncomfortable to me is GOD'S JUDGMEEEENNNNTT

Question. How do you even know?

Because his book says so? How do you know the Israelite authors just didn't add in the "god told us to" part in order to justify the act after the fact?

Every Christian pretends they have a personal hotline with God. You don't.

>he doesn't smoke Royal Nepalese Temple Hash

>That you think God is wishy washy tells me you don't know God.
xD.

'God' might not be, but you and all his followers sure as shit are.

Because I read and understand the bible.

Genesis 15
And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

>Israelite authors

If you read the bible, you would know that it was not written by self-serving Jews.

The followers are real, but the man they follow is not?

Yes, atheists still have morals.

Technically under that logic even the so called objective laws of physics and shit wouldn't be objective as god would be able to change them on a whim.

There is no morality *with* God, only obedience.

Morality requires reason coupled with empathy, analysis of the situation at hand to find the least harmful and most optimal solution. Thus there is no absolute morality, for it must change with the time and the situation to remain moral. The closest the Bible comes to this is in that its interpretation and emphases changes over time.

Morality is an elaboration of the hierarchical social instinct and tendencies which man has kept with him. An application of conscious action to what before was merely a series of simple habits, allowing us to maintain families, tribes, and nations.

Fundamentalism ignores morality in favor of unchangeable dictates. It is immoral, stagnant, and ultimately destructive in all its forms. It's fine to look back upon your ancestor's beliefs for moral inspiration, but it's quite another to follow them lock step while ignoring the world around you.

Well, yes

>I don't believe in a literal God: the post

But you're right, if we are to believe the truth of The Holy Bible, this God respects societal change.

natural law tho

Hobbes =/= Darwin

>there would be no way to mediate between them

why? explain this christfag. I can think of plenty of ways. we do it all the time in medical ethics, law, politics, and even art

natural law giver tho

I'll just tell you how it is.

God is the objective basis for morality because he is above us; he says what is good and what is evil; and he enforces it.

No tribunal you could come up with could possibly rule between those two men in any objective way; it would always be subjective. And if neither man agreed to appear before your tribunal, or agreed to the outcome, the only way to enforce the decision WOULD BE MIGHT MAKES RIGHT.

It's not as if God comes down to play mediator between two people who have different opinions as to Biblical law.

Until he does, or that Bible gets up, picks up a gun, and starts enforcing its own laws, religious law is every bit as man made and subject to change and interpretation as secular law.

The kind of morality there is is fundamentally different to the point that many theists can't understand the concept of secular morality, but yes.

I think what you mean is, is there morality without the idea of god, and the answer to that question is yes.

In fact, the idea of gods and any kind of divine laws can actually present opportunity for immorality to coexist with rational thought, empowering the enlightened with a valid sacred hall pass for their selfish and sometimes cruel actions, as they are in accordance with what an invented deity deems an acceptable way to live.

Imbuing the man in the sky with any kind of special over ruling authority doesn't negate the fact that we are all inherently caring the same way a godless mother badger is to her young. Morality is just a label we apply to the sense of caring for others, whether that be in a physical sense or indirect support. We all invent borders of where immoral begins, but the core principles stay the same. A psychopath hailing from one culture, would still be deemed a psychopath in most other cultures.

There isn't morality WITH the Abrahamic God, the Bible and Qur'an show that God is more than willing to change the rules when the cultural context changes, and is more than happy to break his own rules when he feels like it.

There's nothing "objective" to religious morality even if you blindly accept all of its claims on faith. If you don't accept its claims on faith then it's even more worthless because it's just some person or group or text claiming to have a divine authority you don't believe in.

>doubt: the post

>not believing in god means you're automatically wrong always: the posts

Doubt is a pretty good movie.

Me think unpleasant action.=I will not do it to you.

>I have a hotline with God

>I also have a hotline with God

Didn't know there were so many unmedicated schizophrenics here today!

That's the only way you can be a Christian and still post on Veeky Forums.

Having God talk to you is a central concept in Religion. Stop treating that as schzophrenia.

Clearly

Yes.
Religion is the best at implementing it though.

>Morality requires reason coupled with empathy, analysis of the situation at hand to find the least harmful and most optimal solution. Thus there is no absolute morality, for it must change with the time and the situation to remain moral. The closest the Bible comes to this is in that its interpretation and emphases changes over time.


>rationalism is okay guys

says the guy trying to be an empiricist and failing at it.

The Euthyphro Dilemma is still just that.

A person could just function on survival with their right being life and their wrong being death, as long as they don't think about it too much. Or you can just do what you're told to. Otherwise you might have to research and the history of ethics centers around a defined undefinable.