How can a country be next to/intergrated into England for so long, but have historically terrible fighters?
Everything I read shows the Irish to be africa-tier; they never seemed to accomplish much of any real note in a military sense.
Before England, they were nothing special until norse-shits of all people taught them to fight. After England, their rebellions were all such a massive failure that it's laughable.
The only reason they're free is arguably that Britain seriously fucked up how they handled the aftermath of the 1916 Rising, and even then they could have quite easily steamrolled them.
there is gonna be serious damage control for this one dude, prepare yourself
Nathaniel Anderson
I know, I already know what's coming
>MUH IRA >MUH MICHAEL COLLINS >MUH BRIAN BORU
But name-dropping some semi-competent commanders does not a competent military make.
I just don't get how they managed to be so consistently shit, especially when exposed to somewhere like England.
Isaac Foster
Haven't they rarely ever had military though? Britain's occupied them for so long that they haven't had time to build up a military tradition, trained generals, armaments, etc.
Landon Green
Pre-Britian they weren't very good or notable in comparison to many places in a similar situation.
During Britain they contributed very few notable people or divisions; there really aren't any notable "irish" groups that fought for/alongside Britain (or anyone else) that are at all noteworthy.
When they rebelled, they did it very poorly regardless of any disadvantage they might have been.
They cling to people like Wolfe Tone, but he really wasn't much either.
Isaiah Barnes
>attacking the irish on Veeky Forums
BAD IDEA
In 20 minutes there'll be 50 1/64th irish-americans here who will cite shitty records and post meme leaders.
Daniel Collins
They resisted the Normans, something England failed to do.
Kayden Diaz
I'm not even attacking, I respect the country for other things.
I think they have produced some incredible politicians who-all things considered-accomplished great things.
I think they are an excellent example of a cradle of western civilization throughout history, and believe they have produced some of Europe's finest poetry as well as generally being a bookish bunch of dudes while mainland Europe was getting all their shit pillaged.
I'm just curious as to why they were-for lack of better words-always shit at fighting.
James Rivera
They also sucked at uniting and never got closer to it by themselves than that one man died and it all collapsed.
Jacob Hernandez
Ireland is on the fringe of Europe, so it is the last place to hear of new military technologies
Also as an island it is very hard for neighbouring states to lend assistance or for Irish fighters to hop borders
As an Englishfag that's the best I can do
I do agree the Irish seemed to be oddly laid back and impotent
John Stewart
Some of the best soldiers in europe throughout history, hence why some european kingdoms created irish brigades and why a huge bulk of britains army was made up of irish soliders.
Christopher Howard
You're not looking in the right place for Irish Soldiers.
Pic related >St. Patrick's Day, 2003 at Camp Eagle, Kuwait >Members of the Royal Irish Regiment, 16th Air Assault Brigade, celebrate St.Patrick's Day at Camp Eagle, in the run-up to war against Iraq
>Before England, they were nothing special until norse-shits of all people taught them to fight. how do you figure? Becuase Ború adopted their axes? what is your basis for thinking this
>their rebellions were all such a massive failure that it's laughable. when are you placing the "After England" date as? the 13th century? some were only skin-of-the-teeth failures and some still accomplished things beneficial to 'the cause' of the Irish People
>and even then they could have quite easily steamrolled them. with massive costs in deploying the army after the ruinous toll of WWI, similar to how the Nine Years War nearly broke Elizabeth I
sorry I don't like /int/ tier threads by eternally arse pained orangemen on Veeky Forums
Samuel Russell
...
Aaron Wilson
7/8 of my great grandparents are Irish and Ireland is astonishingly historically irrelevant. It at times had a population dwarfed by England obviously but Scotland had its share of great military leaders, blew England the fuck out a few times (e.g. Bishops Wars) and took over their monarchy. Scotland's relation to England made such social mobility easier than in Ireland. Its contact with the Roman world was also more limited than in Scotland and obviously England/Wales. Lack of natural resources potential conquerors would have an eye on meant a strong martial tradition never developed. Rebelling against an unmatched naval power made it difficult to receive any assistance from the mainland and the armies the Irish did raise were just not up to par with experienced English troops.
>strong martial tradition define a strong martial tradition and explain how Ireland didn't have it before and for a long time after the Normans
a lack of the luxuries available to other peoples surely would work against what you're saying
Dylan Torres
> Lack of natural resources potential conquerors would have an eye on meant a strong martial tradition never developed. Do you know what the Normans called Ireland? Terra guerre, land of war.
Bentley Thompson
A soldier from Ulster burnt down the White House.
Logan Bell
Basically every country in Europe from England to Spain to Sweden heaped immense amounts of praise on Gaelic fighters. How did you come to the conclusion that they were regarded as being poor? Literally every historical instance says the opposite of what you're claiming.
I've studied Irish military history for five years and literally the only person I can think of who said the Gaels were bad fighters is Voltaire, and he wasn't exactly an expert in military matters.
Evan Hughes
hey now, they were excellent cannon fodder during the american civil war
Juan Cox
>Lack of natural resources potential conquerors would have an eye on meant a strong martial tradition never developed And yet, whenever an historical writer like Gerald of Wales or Edmund Spenser writer wanted to smear the Irish, they'd claim that all they did was fight.
Ireland was actually one of the few countries in late medieval/early modern Europe where everyone was expected to be able to fight, though in the high medieval and earlier periods their warriors were always aristocratic. As late as the 18th century, foreign fencers like Donald McBane praised the Irish style of swordsmanship. What you've posted is nonsense.
Logan Campbell
The Irish won the American civil war desu.
Ethan Hughes
Ireland produced plenty of decent fighters. Irish regiments were well regarded across Europe. It's just that they aren't generally remembered as Irish because they always fought in the armies of other countries.
No they didn't. The Normans took basically total control of the country. The only reason Ireland didn't end up completely anglicised by the 16th century was the black death wiping out all the Anglo-Norman settlements.
Colton Moore
There were more foreign German fighters in the Union Army than Irish.
Jackson Collins
They fought Germany and won, not like England.
Cameron Torres
Do you know how I call my dick ?
I hope you don't
Hunter Ramirez
>Ireland's greatest warriors
Isaac Turner
I'd ride your wan with the gun in fairness sham.
Sebastian White
thats really cool to hear. any quotes about irish soldiers i can read?
Logan Gomez
Its a island warband country
But then we have japan... Are irish African?
Easton Davis
The Irish pirates who raided Roman Britain were quite successful.
Brayden James
their awkward gangly appearance is not far off from reality
Jason Powell
NOT AN ARGUMENT
Michael Evans
>How can a country be next to/intergrated into England for so long, but have historically terrible fighters? You literally answered your own question. Britain is famous for NOT producing good fighters. Brits built their fame of killing spearchuckers and their "national fighters" (longbowmen and grenadiers) were fucking mediocre considering they were going roughly toe to toe with the French, but losing all centuries before and after they got outdated.
Josiah Myers
> Brits built their fame of killing spearchuckers If I were French I'd be kind of insulted by that, but then again God has blessed me my making me an Englishman, so all I have to do is sit back and laugh at all the butthurt Anglophobes.
All of you posting criticism of England's military record in this thread, just remember what language you're doing it in.
Carter Hill
Yes, we're all thanking you for being shitty enough that the Mayflower sailed out.
Michael Parker
cool pic. source pls?
Joshua Scott
in a germanic french
Joshua Moore
RIR is exclusively loyalist chavs from the north and clueless morons from the south who either couldn't join the IDF or want to shoot some brown people
