Who were they, how did they manage to become such proficient and efficient seafarers in such ancient times. How such an early and somewhat primitive culture managed to colonize such an extensive number of different islands and places
Also polynesian culture general.
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Polynesian came from the Spice Islands ultimately. It's the one region in the world with at least 50-60k years of ocean navigation and explains the genetic adaption necessary to make it across Oceania.
That stretch of islands facilitated the evolution of sailing matched by almost no other place on earth except the islands of the eastern Mediterranean.
>NU UH THEY CAME FROM TAIWANS!!!
No you fools. That theory has so many holes in it that it's barely worth mentioning in depth.
>genetic adaption necessary
sea peoples become good sailors, they develop a culture of seafaring and the necesary technology and hone their skills trough generations, the genetic adaptation necesary is that they have brains and opposable thumbs
>how did they manage to become such proficient and efficient seafarers in such ancient times
they basically had no other choice
>how did they manage to become such proficient and efficient seafarers in such ancient times.
why didn't anyone else?
>genetic adaption
What genetic adaptation. Lol. They don't have gills. They don't even have inter-digital membranes like some people in Brazil do. They have pigs and hens like regular Taiwanese folk. They're from Taiwan.
>having pigs and hens make you Taiwanese
Fuck, guess I should move then.
Melanesian didn't have pigs nor hens when the migrations began. That's the single biggest argument against a Melanesian origin.
Not to mention language, culture, religion, and a bunch of other pointers.
I think he probably meant, just simply, 'adaptation' or maybe 'cultural' or 'cross-generational' adaptation.
Polynesian are the most adapted people on the planet although yes they were in the warm tropics they were sailing cold ocean water with nothing but Bark cloth
This you fool
tandfonline.com
The most cold adapted people on earth
Junglefowl are found throughout southeast Asia, Pigs are from China but quickly traded and mixed with various wild pigs around the Island SEA
All Polynesian have coconut, breadfruit, banana and sugarcane these come from Near Oceania not Taiwan. Livestock are prestige items meaning they could have come from anywhere as a trade good from long distances. Taiwan is a foolish heartland, they are an early offshoot of austronesian speakers but they are not the heart of Polynesia and Austronesian people.
>such ancient times
the bulk of polynesia was settled during the Middle Ages, New Zealand didn't see humans until 1250 AD.
Not so ancient ahaloha.
when you consider that abo's hit australia 50,000 years ago, you realize that polynesian culture is ridiculously young.
What I keep wondering, why did they never end up in Australia? It seems like they did everything to avoid it. Did they know something about abo's that we don't?
>All Polynesian have coconut, breadfruit, banana and sugarcane these come from Near Oceania not Taiwan.
Polynesians also have sweet potato. Must come from South America then, uh? Except we know they traded all over the place.
>the bulk of polynesia was settled during the Middle Ages
Polynesia was settled 3000 years ago.
>never met a polynesian
for one thing they all suffer from gigantism, which is needed to survive under water for long periods of time (ie whales) unlike their midget cousins in indinesia
besides being the giant aquaman subspecies, they are also adapted to deep water and can hold their breath under cold antartic water for over 20 minutes
Except we know that the adoption of sweet potato came into a vegeculture centered horticultural society.
The supposed abandonment of rice and some how magical domestication, learned cultivation and creation dozens of varieties of each crop is b.s.
The Taiwan theory only makes since to those who know barely anything about Oceania.
Someone sounds upset
They had agriculture suited for the climate of the Polynesian Islands and arguable some of the most advanced stone age watercraft.
The vessel in your picture can reach as much as 20 knots in the right conditions. It utilizes a crab sail, asymmetrical hull and a floater that rises out of the water.
en.wikipedia.org
>The most widely accepted theory is that modern Austronesians originated from migrations out of Taiwan between 3000 and 1000 BC. However, Soares et al. (2008) have argued for an older pre-Holocene Sundaland origin within Island Southeast Asia (ISEA) based on mitochondrial DNA.[7]
>Paternal Y chromosome analysis by Kayser et al. (2000) also showed that Polynesians have significant Melanesian genetic admixture.[8] However, a follow-up study by Kayser et al. (2008) discovered that only 21% of the Polynesian autosomal gene pool is of Melanesian origin, with the rest (79%) being of East Asian origin.[9] Another study by Friedlaender et al. (2008) also confirmed that Polynesians are closer genetically to Micronesians, Taiwanese Aborigines, and East Asians, than to Melanesians. The study concluded that Polynesians moved through Melanesia fairly rapidly, allowing only limited admixture between Austronesians and Melanesians.[10] Thus the high frequencies of B4a1a1 are the result of drift and represent the descendants of a few East Asian females.[11] The Polynesian population experienced a population bottleneck and genetic drift.[12]
>Recent DNA studies show that the Atayal people from Taiwan and the Kankanaey people of the northern Philippines, who later mixed with Melanesians, were most probably among the original ancestors of modern Polynesians.[13][14]
They're from Taiwan, the genetics point to that. The were for some time in Melanesia though. Case closed.
God you're a retard
>Genetic analysis however suggests that the different tribes may have different ancestral source populations originating in mainland Asia, and developed in isolation from each other. Genetic studies have also found similarities between the Atayal and other people in the Philippines and Thailand, and to a lesser extent with south China and Vietnam
This is what I mean by stupid people talking about things they know nothing about. Related Taiwanese Aboriginals are an early offshoot that migrated there, they did not birth Polynesian you uneducated bitch.
At least read the post above you before calling someone "a retard" and an "uneducated bitch". Seriously? It literally says right there the Atayal people from Taiwan are the most probable original ancestors.
Polynesians are a mix of different things anyway, no point on arguing if they're from Taiwan or from Melanesia when it's obvious they have aspects of both.
No you retard. I stated from the beginning that Taiwanese and Polynesians share common ancestry.
I am saying that they are an offshoot, that migrated out to Taiwan and the Philippines. What you're uneducated ass doesn't even know is that none of these studies take into account Polynesian motifs not their positioning in SEA all of them begin in eastern most Indonesia. They didn't magically arise these after Taiwan's somehow magically learned oceanwide navigation.
You're still posting Wikipedia, it's fine because your ignorance permits it's usage but you still know nothing about this topic.
Stay in your fucking lane.
so i am 1.93cm
does it mean i am immune to drowning?
You're rude af.
*tips*
What's the difference between Polynesians and Micronesians ?
I think it's rude when people have not spent years studying coming on a thread they no nothing about and throw Wikipedia articles around and act triumphantly.
At least he is citing something.
>gets angry at an user for using tertiary source
>doesn't post one single citable reference
>I said so because it's right!!
>the common thought is wrong, can't you see???
That's you. And no, I am not the user you were arguing, but you are a literal fucking retard.
I will always take wikipedia over retards such as yourself who cannot even cite anything, yet still want to argue.
Keep going though, can't wait for you to post some sources which you have never bothers to cross reference or even check the validity of. You will read something and just take it as fact as you have seen it in a book, even though the majority of those who have spent their lives studying this topic come to another conclusion, you are correct, because you said so.
kek.
Proper tipping my hat to you, good sir.
I think it's rude to start insulting people for no reason. For all you know I'm fucking 12, ffs m8. Grow up.
And they weren't doing much more than thumbing their assholes on their islands for a good 2000 years
I cited the cold adaption study and I took an excerpt from a genetic study on the Atayal population
There are dozens of papers and books that's can be cited specifically on this topic, I will add that my view point isn't fringe it's been spoken about for decades.
Oceanic Migration: Paths, Sequence, Timing and Range of Prehistoric Migration in the Pacific and Indian Oceans is an exhaustive tome that show cases much of the work and explains what I'm talking about.
Stephen Oppenheimer has wonderful work as well as Roger Blench regarding a western movement from the Spice Islands Near Oceania to South Asia.
Why waste time explaining this to idiots who don't care about real researchers though, they aren't here to learn they are here to post Wikipedia articles like yourself and your Fedora bullshit.
If you're 12 you shouldn't be on here and if you don't know either ask questions or STFU and listen.
>Why waste time explaining this to idiots who don't care about real researchers though
What the fuck are you going on about? "real" research? Fucking kek.
Guns, Germs and Steel their shit right here. Your are literally, factually wrong. You are representing a fringe opinion on this subject as your view as correct is literally, factually fucking wrong. It is not the commonly accepted theory which people spent their entire fucking lives working on. Not reading about.
Yeah sure, you have sources which you can cite which represent what you are saying, but I can cite sources which deny the holocaust, which say the Americans never landed on the moon, It's not 100% fucking true though, holy god dam man.
And I mean, everything can be summed up with your hatred of wikipedia, an actual reliable source of information.
Tertiary sources are the new primary source, especially a tertiary source which places an emphasis on historical accuracy above all else, and when a conflicting topic arises it takes the most prevalent common thought, while still representing the other conflicting opinions. Most of wikipedia is an unbiased source of tertiary information.
I mean, you're the retard who can't go to wikipedia get he primary or secondary source it's referencing and check for yourself.
You take the cop out and you express an opinion that thinks everything on wikipedia is simply false, when all wikipedia is, is a collection of information relevant to a topic which gives a short but concise overview of said topic.
But yes, I am going to take that paper with 306 views and 3 (THREE) citable references, written in NEW ZEALAND from University of Otago as 100% fact.
You are a literal retard. I mean, you may know something on the subject, but you are still wrong, nothing you can say will prove otherwise, as there is no objective fact about this subject, yet, and you are representing the conflicting side of the common thought, you're a contrarian.
>you don't know either ask questions or STFU and listen.
Ow the edge. My hat's off to you kind sir.
Not that guy
Shut the fuck up faggot
What if I don't tho?
The research and works of Pierce, Oppenheimer and Blench are noted throughout their fields and have continually created alternate views of island Southeast Asia where fact is the majority of mesolithic and Neolithic archeological findings are centered on rice cultivation -which is not SEA-
You can cry all you fucking want, as I stated since the beginning the shared relations of Taiwanese Aboriginals and Polynesians come not from the latter coming from the former but rather that former diverging from the ancestors of the former.
Wikipedia isn't false because it's Wikipedia, Wikipedia is horrible because your dumbass posted genetic findings but had not a single fucking clue that those genetic findings are rooted in previous migration expansions.
Wikipedia is extremely political, each page controlled or constantly edited by various sides. The omission of Atayal genetics confirming SEA origins on the link of Polynesian genetic origins is a confirmation.
But you wouldn't fucking know shit because you wanted to seem smart and posted something without fucking context or understanding. You're the reason why Veeky Forums is shit.
Polynesians are an ethnic group, Micronesians are citizens of the Micronesia state.
Literally every board is like this. Grow up.
>How did they become such proficient and efficient seafarers
durr I dunno it must have something to do with how they live on A BUNCH OF FUCKING ISLANDS IN THE FUCKING OCEAN YOU RETARDED FUCKING MONG.
>in such ancient times
They didn't travel most of the pacific in ancient times.
Fiji and surrounding islands seem to be 2000 bc, but beyond that it's mostly ad.
1200 ad for new zeeland, 500 ad for hawaii.
Then why didn't the natives in the caribs become the world's greatest seafarers? Why was it only some icelandic dude and some Hawaiians?
>What genetic adaptation
They all get fat as fuck and have better stamina, basically making them canoe dude machines.
I want to draw a historically accurate Moana, may base it on Samoa or Rapa Nui. Anyone know what a chiefs daughter looked like? Would she be topless?
No one knows because Polynesians don't keep records of our history, whoops.
Recreating some sort of interpretation of most Polynesian cultures is mainly guesswork because of that lack of a written language or doing any painting or artwork because the only thing that doesn't get washed away by tsunamis or rain is wood carvings.
I think she's Samoan though.
>RAPANUI-MAN
>I think she's Samoan
Not even European accounts of their clothing/appearance?
Yeah, she doesn't look rapanuian.
Dunno, there's a few.