I've been so conflicted with Christianity after growing up in a Christian household with Christian parents. I stopped going to church halfway through high school and once I came to college, I started going again. A lot of the Bible doesn't make sense to me and neither does the history of it. Can you help explain to me whether the religion makes sense historically or not?
For example, things such as the Ark of the Covenant or the Great Flood or Ten Commandments with Moses, are all of these things even possible? How can God himself inscribe markings on stone tablets if he wasn't even a physical person at the time (once Jesus enters the scene)? How can a virgin give birth to a son; that's literally physically impossible? Why did it take such a long time for Christianity to enter the scene of a major world power (Byzantine Empire by Constantine) compared to other religions? And why of all religions would it overtake Judaism; wouldn't Judaism make more sense in the grand scheme of things... why would Christianity break off and then suddenly become more popular? Why have the miracles stopped in the modern era? This isn't a joke, but would it be possible that aliens are our God and they really existed at some point but they abandoned us? Why do people blindly follow the religion nowadays even though they only know the very very basic staples of the religion? How do you even gain faith in such a thing if you don't understand the religion? Why would Christianity of all religions be the one that randomly springs up when the world already had religions at the time that made sense to everybody? Is the Bible just a list of guidelines of how to live your life, rather than a book of history?
Why does every Christian that I ask just say "stop using common sense/logic and just believe"? I'm super conflicted with it and nothing is making sense to me, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.
Jesus tells us to throw away old teachings. "Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved"
Chase Ramirez
Logically, no. But God is Omnipotent, unlike Jesus.
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)
"...I cast out devils by the Spirit of God then the kingdom of God is come unto you." (Matthew 12:28)
"I can of mine own self do nothing " (John 5:30)
"I with the finger of God cast out devils" (Luke 1 1:20)
The people in the past arrogant. So God give to his prophets miracles so that it is easier for the people to accept what the prophets preach.
>marking tablet God can do everything
>why do people blindly follow religion Because they were raised that way
>aliens are our god I don't worship weak 'gods'
The Bible does have contradiction, just like you said. I'm just gonna add some in your argument. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17;
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
This clearly stated that Jesus come to fulfill the law of Moses. But what you said contradict the said verse.
Aiden Brown
I think Jesus came to fulfill the Law of Moses, that is to say, he came to fulfill Justice, not abolish it.
As for the rest of what he said, perhaps it is the case that his words were exaggerated by Jewish disciples
Connor Foster
>Why have the miracles stopped in the modern era? They haven't.
>Jesus tells us to throw away old teachings.
Indeed, he taught people to worship God in spirit and in truth, thus the law of old testament is still being fulfilled as serious Christians would say if a person became a devout follower of Jesus. Jesus would be come their Sabbath rest, etc anyways point is somewhere in the new testament it is written if a person who becomes a Christian then becomes a old testament legalist although s/he might call themselves a Christian, then by doing so s/he puts the sacrifice of Christ to shame as if he died in vain.
Tyler Russell
>God is Omnipotent, unlike Jesus But how can that be so? Your response kind of just returned back to my complaint of Christians throwing out common sense and "just believing". How can God be an actual thing, and how can one prove it? Historically would be great, because stuff like the Ten Commandments sounds like something out of a fictional story book, as well as the flood.
But do you agree with the new testament?
Jaxon Hall
Yep. Well I agree with the gospel and am kind of skeptical of anything that isn't a direct quote from Jesus. For instance I think it's plausible they lied about some of his miracles. They saw him perform some, but then wanted to embellish a little or what not.
Wyatt Cooper
You're making Veeky Forums a worse place. Please stop.
Noah Ramirez
Bullshit, I like it better this way. No need for sugar coating bullshit like most religion do.
Lucas Bailey
Is there any reason to believe in what they (Jesus, disciples, etc...)? Could their stories have been made up (this is referring to my initial question of it being historically possible)? And could God logically be a thing or does that go against any common sense of humanity?
Luke Baker
Is it physically possible? That depends on who you ask. There are those that feel that the natural laws of the universe are absolute and so by definition can not be broken. But one must also remain skeptical of atheist claims and remember that their omnipotent laws of nature have been suspiciously fine-tuned for human life.
It's possible everything was made up, but it's common sense that Jesus was real and that his sayings were recorded to some degree. As for his miracles, we only have eye witness testimony. Of this, one must take it on faith due to the brilliance of the message.
Can God exist logically? Of course, but for some people there is the problem of evil.
Matthew Cox
That's not what I meant. There's no use talking about it on Veeky Forums at all. It's been the same damn argument a thousand times, and nothing new ever gets introduced. Talk about something else, please.
Owen Sanders
click another thread m8
Tyler White
>Of course, but for some people there is the problem of evil Can you elaborate on this please? What does the problem of evil have to do with God existing logically?
Chase Hall
I really should make an atheist thread.
>omnipotent user, if God isn't Omnipotent, then how come He can create the universe, make life, quantum law, complexity of the brain, ect?
Can a weak god do all of these? No. Thus, God is Omnipotent.
Jeremiah Hall
Sorry I haven't been here for nearly as long as you have man. I just want some answers to my questions because normal people are too lazy or are unable.
Kevin Reyes
I don't mean to go Veeky Forums on this, but wouldn't that contradict the laws of nature, namely the Big Bang Theory, such that God didn't create the universe, but tiny atoms did?
Also, is God seem as the creator of the universe, or just the creator of Earth? I ask this because of Genesis, it talks about him creating the heavens and the earth, but never about the universe. And if he did create the universe, how would/could he possibly know/care about just us on this lone planet relative to everything else he created?
Easton Diaz
This is Veeky Forums topic. Beside, new people, new threads, new arguments, new way to go around the argument.
We need diamonds to cut diamonds.
Charles Garcia
>"stop using common sense/logic and just believe" This is on the right track, but a little bit of a simplification. It's like trying to describe a feeling; a conviction.
It's odd, but it's fairly easy to see that God is real, and powerful. If you've ever been at your lowest, and give yourself completely over to him, you will be overwhelmed with the feeling of his love and know that he's real.
(I know I sound like a faggot, but have any of you actually tried? This is coming from a former atheist)
Jonathan Thomas
I'm trying man. I've prayed this year more than I have in any other year in the past. I've started researching the history of the bible and the religion more than ever. I genuinely go to church compared to being forced in the past. I read the bible more now than ever in the past (practically never), and I go to my church's little side meetings with other college students to learn more about God.
Is it truly a spiritual feeling that makes the religion? Or is it the history of knowing the past? How do you know you've "seen" God? Because honestly I'm trying but it's difficult man.
John Perry
No, it didn't contradict science. Hawking himself said that the universe have a beginning, read:
If the universe has a beginning, then before the beginning it doesn't exist. Only God can create something out of nothing.
>genesis Again, not all in the Bible are correct.
>He know about us By Omnipotent, it means that He is also all knowing. He's not weak, like us. No flaw whatsoever.
Christian Davis
the problem of evil is that people attribute benevolence and omnipotence to god. how can there be evil if god is capable of stopping it and also willing to stop it?
William Sanders
Excuse me if this is too deep, but is it possible that something else created God, or there was something before God?
And if not everything in the Bible is correct, how can a filthy casual like myself differentiate the truth from the lies/false stuff?
Easton Allen
Because of sin, right? Isn't that the whole story behind Satan sinning and becoming a fallen angel and initiating evil on Earth?
Kayden Ramirez
The 'Holy Spirit' is a lie. In Christianity, there more than 33000 of Christians denominations, each of them is different and each of them claim to have the 'Holy Spirit'.
Does 'Holy Spirit' intends to lead you all to different path? Intead of one path?
(At this point I realized that I misread your post but too lazy to erase it)
We cannot 'see' God. Those who said to see God are liars. According to Exodus 33:20 ;
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Jonathan Nguyen
God wouldn't need to be omnipotent in order to do those things. Maybe god is deistic and can only create universes but not meaningfully interact with them after creation.
Landon Rodriguez
Why would he not interact with them? What stops him? Wouldn't Jesus count as interaction?
Sebastian Williams
Not being weak doesn't make him omnipotent you fucking retard
Thomas Price
The 33k denominations is kind of interesting. Is there a logical explanation to this? I knew about it before but it slipped my mind.
And if you can't see God, why would he allow us to see Jesus, which was his representation of himself on Earth?
Blake Wilson
It really is a spiritual feeling that will make you believe. The reasons behind it in the book will make you understand it.
The "easiest" way is being in your most vulnerable state, to give your life over. But there are many other ways to come into contact with God. Just remember, Jesus is the mediator between God and men.
Blake Jenkins
So basically if I reach a really low point and then start believing in god...I'll believe in god? I get what you're trying to say but you're literally saying making a circular argument about personal feelings supporting the correctness of a feeling with nothing to back it up. And what if I "give myself completely" and feel nothing, was it not "complete" enough? What people who say the exact same thing about Allah or Buddha? How can I as an outsider know which feel is true?
Isaiah Nguyen
No, it impossible for something to create an Uncreated(God; also one of qualities of God).
>How can we differentiate from evil Listen to what Jesus said:
Matthew7: 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. 20 Therefore, BY THE FRUIT YOU SHALL KNOW THEM.
Now, see which fruit is good, which is bad. Don't read bias sources. Read what goodness(accomplishment) does that fruit bears.
Wyatt Moore
How do I give my life over though? It feels like I am in my own sense, but I can't detect what others are feeling. Can you recommend any books in the Bible? Would "giving yourself up" somehow relate to the origins of Christianity of how poor people were illiterate and had nothing else to do but "give themselves up", thus leading to the increase in popularity of the religion or is it really a true feeling that anybody can feel?
Why do you have to reach your lowest point? Why can't you be at your highest point and still give your life up and still feel God? What prevents him from showing himself to us in the modern age through another messiah?
Jace Garcia
Don't get me wrong, it is a "feeling," but that's a simplification.
It's not about becoming completely vulnerable and giving yourself over, but rather that state would allow you to actually put aside your ego and become receptive to God.
No reason to start analyzing or taking positions about other spiritual positions until you realize God in a more literal sense than an academic sense.
Parker Morales
He might be incapable of interaction. He just goes around creating universes out of nothing but can't actually see what goes on inside them. He might not even know he's doing it. You can throw a rock into a puddle to make a ripple, but you can't talk to the individual water molecules that you've set into motion.
And maybe there's just nothing special about Jesus. Just another human trying to make sense of the world. He had some good ideas and was lucky enough to have those ideas spread around after his death but all of the mystical stuff could easily be a legend created after the fact.
Lucas Wright
Regarding Jesus's divinity, let's hear what Jesus said:
Mark 12:28-29:
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the LORD IS ONE."
John 14:48 : ....My Father is greater than I
John 10:29: My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all...
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing....
Johh 5:30 clearly implies Jesus does not possess the quality of God. God can do everything.
Matthew 24:36: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
This verse is talking about doomsday. This clearly state that Jesus(Son) doesn't know when is doomsday. God know everything, but Jesus doesn't know everything
Is this the words of a 'God'? Or is this the words of a prophet?
Dominic Taylor
I'm trying to describe a feeling; a state of receptive vulnerability.
Reason is a good thing, so you can work through and analyze information, but its a separate process from spirituality.
Nathan Martinez
>a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit Then how does that agree with God being omnibenevolent and all loving? Because all loving cannot bring forth evil.
Jacob Lewis
Are you saying that god gives these experiences to everyone regardless of religion? Because that would really seem to muddle the issue. If these experiences are available to Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and pagans then why should I believe you when you say it comes from your god?
Aiden Torres
Again, we cannot compare God with humans.
God is 'incapable' of knowing? But He is capable of creating the universe?
And agree, Jesus on his ownself can do nothing.
Aiden Cruz
I don't get what you mean.
Jeremiah Green
You're asking a question that cannot be answered concisely. I could go with my "one true God," route, but it wouldn't satisfy you.
Jesus as the mediator between God and men has made the difference in communication in my personal experience, but I don't really want to go down this prickly path...
Leo Foster
No logical explanation that I can think of.
Juan Adams
Ok so God is omnibenevolent, which means he is all loving and always good.
So those verses say a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. So since God is always good, that means he cannot ever bring forth evil, correct?
So if he cannot bring forth evil, how does that explain sin?
Angel Young
Damn man, God condemns people who don't believe in the divinity of Jesus. That's a good reason to believe.
Isaac Sanchez
>God is 'incapable' of knowing? But He is capable of creating the universe? Why not? There's nothing about creating a universe that logically means you can also see inside it and talk to individuals. Right now my body is doing some pretty impressive organic chemistry. But I can't look down to a single cell to see what it's up to and I certainly can't talk to that cell.
Julian Miller
So I get that you weren't able to go into any detail, but what you teased here raises even more questions. Why would "one true God" send confirming experiences to people following the wrong religion? If all religions are somehow "right" then why would god allow them to be in direct conflict? And why does God need a mediator if he can just communicate with us individually?
Chase Price
Christianity along with all the Abrahamic religions are a sickness and the history of European progress and of the progress of Europe's descendants has been a history of rejecting Christianity in favor of Enlightenment.
Nolan Anderson
This is why I didn't go onto this path. You could go onto the "close-enough" narration that God is universal, but I don't want to ruin that experience by giving you my strict avocation and textbook Christianity. That would be a more academic path, which wouldn't be very conducive to an anonymous imageboard.
I'd highly recommend joining a strict Christian sect and following the teachings (as well as reading the Bible) before you get into the broad questioning, though. Not to brainwash you, but it would answer more than half the questions that you may have about why Christianity takes the stances it does.
Adam Hernandez
He is God, not humans. He created us, and of course He knows what He had created.
Kind of like how human make machine, the machine is complicated, but nevertheless, human know what's inside it.
Human doesn't need to become a machine to fix the machine if it goes broken. Why should God be human in order to fix the evil?
Now, there's two sides, God and false prophets(Matthew 7:15).
False prophets will bring out evil fruit. While those who's from God bear good fruit.
Jayden Robinson
Atheist has the filthiest uretra of all men and incapable to shit out valid argument.
Ethan Sullivan
This angers the Christian. How does it feel to know that your religion is nothing more than useful tool? Render onto Caesar what is Caesars little Christfag.
Jack Flores
Hey, Christfags? What do you think about scissors, whiteout, and the Bible?
Samuel Perry
>Hey, Christfags? What do you think about scissors, whiteout, and the Bible?
forgot pic related
Nolan Parker
We are only compelled to obey authorities until they conflict with the teachings of Christ.
Justin Ross
So, what I haven't had answered from this thread yet is why Christianity was so late to the party in empires compared to other religions. Also, why create Christianity when Judaism came before it and was already a more justified, logical religion?
Aaron Robinson
>He is God, not humans. He created us, and of course He knows what He had created. >Kind of like how human make machine, the machine is complicated, but nevertheless, human know what's inside it.
You are assuming that God created us directly, intentionally, piece by piece. What if he just created the universe and then left and life just happened to form?
Julian Russell
Can Chalcedon-fags explain something to me. It seems like Dyothelitism goes against the idea of a true incarnation of the divine.
Bentley Morgan
>why was it later It was created later >why make a new religion Because Christ's teachings didn't exist yet and warranted the creation of a new religion
Camden Diaz
You believe Jesus' sacrifice has something to do with unburdening us with following the Old Testament?
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. -Matthew 5:18 KJV
Asher Campbell
Yes indeed. He direct the clashing and clashing of atoms to create life.
Matthew Thomas
Seems like you misunderstood what I said. Any spiritualy serious Christian who knows what they're talking about will tell you that by after repenting to follow Jesus everyday and deny yourself, as for his guidance, etc, that is fulfilling the commandments indirectly of the OT and if a person becoame a legalist s/he puts unnecessary burnden on people making it seem as though Jesus died in vain. It's literally what Paul said. Hence the NT is the NT yet it doesn't actually contradict the OT.
Samuel Hughes
ask
Carson White
Salvation is through faith alone.
Do not confuse Peter for the ever fashionable and ever heretical Pope today.
Nicholas Smith
Francis is about to be fucked if he doesn't answer the dubia.
Jordan Ortiz
I think when Paul talks about crucifying Christ in vain he is referring to this "But suppose that servant says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and he begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him, and at an hour of which he is unaware. Then He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers."
Basically living a life of sin instead of repenting is the same as blasphemy of the holy spirit.
Eli Jones
...
James Harris
a very accurate description of /pol/christianity
Connor Jenkins
>Basically living a life of sin instead of repenting is the same as blasphemy of the holy spirit.
Why do mainstream pastors say this? I'm pretty sure they say it's the same thing but no duh in Christian theology the unforgivable sin and not repenting doesn't get people to heaven.
Connor Anderson
What a misrepresentation of Catholic theology, so fucking sad.
James Baker
They aren't normally possible under laws of nature, that's the reason why they are called "miracles". Miracles in Bible that already happened (I'm leaving out apocalyptic prophecies) span from the beginning of world up to around 100 AD. That's a huge timescale, so if you see lots of miracles that's part of the reason why. Second, the few parts of the Bible where miracles are very common aren't usual but highly important for later development of religion, so miracles had to happen for it to develop optimally (like Jesus getting followers by showing them His miracles). Also, they didn't stop.
>Why would Christianity of all religions be the one that randomly springs up when the world already had religions at the time that made sense to everybody?
Even if these religions made sense, this doesn't make them true. Usefulness doesn't dictate truth.
>Is the Bible just a list of guidelines of how to live your life, rather than a book of history?
Both, although the latter use is used mostly to explain the first and put in in context.
Gabriel Powell
Dumb Marcionist heretic
Is God able to lie?
Colton Martin
So what is spirituality and how does it differ from traditional theology? Why do people always claim spirituality is so distinct from the Bible itself?
