Why was this allowed to happen?

Fuck off fascist.

Why is North Korea so fucking poor?

Even other planned economies like Cuba, Vietnam, East Germany, the USSR, and the PRC managed to do somewhat okay, if not fantastically.

And there were those other, thought not gommies, pretty authoritarian regimes like in Taiwan, Singapore, and freaking SK that managed to build strong economies.

How did NK manage to fail so hard at something that almost everybody else similar to them was managing to do?

>How did NK manage to fail so hard at something that almost everybody else similar to them was managing to do?

Horrendous corruption coupled with the fact North Korea in general has a terrible climate/landscape. Plus literally everything is ploughed into the military and large portraits of the Kims.

No one wants to deal with the inevitable fallout of refugees.

How ironic

War is chaotic and unpredictable. China values stability more than territorial expansion.

>Cuba, Vietnam, East Germany, the USSR, and the PRC

None of them did "okay" following the decline of the factorial economy (which is the ONLY type of economy that can support a """"communism"""" on a large scale)

The only ones that did great (PRC, Russia) were the ones that started the slide to psuedo Capitalism, Vietnam is doing better now tbat they've started the switch, and Cuba survives, doesn't do great.

>and Cuba survives, doesn't do great
In fairness, the US bullying everybody into embargoing them was a big factor in that.

As far as I'm aware cuba trades freely with world except for usa

The peak of NK development is between 70's to 80's after that they went to down so far.........

Norkor and sokor had comparable levels of economic development and standards of living well into the 70s

>In November 1991, the Cuban ambassador, Ricardo Alarcon, in a speech to the UN General Assembly, cited 27 recent cases of trade contracts interrupted by US pressure.
>The British journal Cuba Business claimed that British Petroleum was seemingly dissuaded by US authorities from investing in offshore oil exploration in Cuba despite being initially keenly interested.
>The Petroleum economist claimed, in September 1992, that the US State Department vigorously discouraged firms like Royal Dutch Shell and Clyde Petroleum from investing in Cuba.

Poor little oil companies are being bullied by the US. Why won't they let us drill?

A weak country will always blame its inabilities on the "pressure" from its stronger nation.

Communists are always willing to set up American bogeymen where none exist.

Why would a wholly European corporations listen to the US in deals that have nothing to do with the US?

He said he was Stalin's kid so he'd be more valuable as a hostage. Soviets said if they don't let all the hostages go then no deal.

North Korea is the SOLE property of China. China uses them to sabre rattle and to create media and diplomatic confusion for the West. Its really as simple as that. China doesnt "need" N.K., but sustains them as an unconventional regional stablizing force, as North Korea's sheer existence asbolutely Posses the West's attention, when it could be directed to more pressing matters in Asia.

>Why was this allowed to happen?

NK had a military at the time and fought the UN to a bloody stalemate.

They still have a military now and while they probably couldn't invade South Korea, they have more than enough power to defend themselves from an outside invasion

I honestly believe invading NK would make the 2nd gulf war look like it was actually tricky

They literally have more poundage of artillery pointed at Seoul than was used in all of World War II, all on a hair trigger.

The Clinton administration went through 76 war scenarios invading Best Korea (something they like to point to as proof of US aggression). In none of them did they come out with less than 3 million dead Worst Koreans within the hours of engagement.

Basically, Best Korea survives by holding a knife to Worst Korea's throat - there's just no sure fire way to attack them without watching Seoul get wiped from the map.

Stop what?

They're a bunch of LARPers

i don't think so Tim

An invasion of norkor would be a long protracted shitshow based on the terrain alone. Let's not even get into how many thousands of tanks they have in working order.

Because the US is a very large market. These are internationals, they will prefer to keep good relations with the superpower over an impoverished island nation.

>NK had a military at the time and fought the UN to a bloody stalemate.

China did. The Norks were almost completely crushed, but MacArthur's posturing made the Chinese very nervous about an actual blitz towards Berlin and the Soviet Union was all about helping the Norks and Chinese create trouble for the USA, so they had Soviet pilots both fly in combat against the UN as well as instructing Norks and Chinese pilots in how to use their free-as-in-beer MiGs.

Soviet and Chinese assistance enabled this.

>towards Berlin

Beijing. I am retarded.

Yes, it'd be more accurate to say that China sent 10 million guys with broomsticks over and America said "fuck this shit"... That being more or less a quote from the time.

Why would two great communist dictator countries stop another communist dictator country from rising up?

Land war with China!? Inconceivable!

That also performed forced marches during the night and slept with camo cover during the day, covering vast distances basically unseen and managing to push the lines back.

Sure, the commies were worthless during WW2 but they were all too happy about letting the nationalists bleed, during the Korean War they used all of their pre-war and civil war experience for long movements.

The first two were sane and didn't want to start MAD* War.

*(mutually assured destruction)

>the commies were worthless during WW2
u wut m8?

China wasn't communist yet, and if you mean the soviets were useless in WW2... Ummm...

I'm pretty sure the Norks made a nuclear weapon pretty fast after the Armistice.

There's two things you never do, and that's invade Russia, or invade a nuclear weapons state.

this thread needs more pictures

here use some of these

Context, mate. Read. I obviously meant the communist chinese forces as I also referenced the nationalists and the civil war.

Okay, so you aren't totally insane...

But the CPC hadn't come to power yet in WW2, and was still in conflict with the KMT, so you can't really blame them for that shit show, particularly given the military might of Imperialist Japan. Even if there was some cooperation early on, the Kuomintang government was still in charge, so that was their responsibility, really.

Not to defend the CPC, but...

>sane
Defined only by the powerful.

I think suicide is generally considered insane pretty much universally, by the rich and poor alike.

Dude, you know fucking nothing. The unified front against Japan made the KMT and CPC allies, but the CPC were content with letting the KMT bleed and lose men. Their contributions towards the war effort were minimal, which allowed them both to preserve their strength while maintaining a facade of superiority to KMT led military forces.

Cuz the CPC was still reeling from the defeat in the 20's, and didn't have much military force to help with. They did make a truce with the KMT early on, to make it easier to deal with their mutual enemy, but that fell apart by 1940.

Even when the civil war came around after WW2, the KMT troops still outnumbered the Red Army by more than 3 to 1. It was only the fact that the CPC incited the civilians to rise up against the KMT that allowed them to win that war.

They weren't a real factor in WW2.

I don't think the Chinese and Russians were prepared to deal with faulty JPEG compression in the 50's and 60's.

Suicide is an act of taking own's own life. Not whether or not a person is sane or insane.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United_States
Not sure where you're getting that suicide = insanity argument from, the laws in the US consider it a rational solution in cases.

Yeah, go tell a US psychiatrist you're going to commit suicide, while you're not dying from cancer, and see where he puts you.

?

If you meet certain conditions, you have to do it with the state doctor, not a psychiatrist.

>>Why was this allowed to happen?
Currently? Everyone wants to keeps the status quo, except maybe americans
Imagine a 20 million refugee crisis - neither the south Koreans nor the Chinese want that
I'm pretty sure that if Kim started chimping out, the Chinese would directy take control of NK, in one way or the other

*sigh* it is *generally* considered a sign of insanity, and if you are in the US and tell a psychiatrist, psychologist, or even a policeman or peace officer, that you are going to commit suicide, they are required to institutionalize you, by law - in every state.

Yes, there are some fleeting exceptions, and some cultures even have honorable suicides, but I don't think those exceptions extend to the state of those nations in said comparison.

There was no such status quo in the 50's and 60's, just a cease fire... And I don't think anyone, even the Chinese (and hell, probably not even a lot of the North Koreans), really want to keep North Korea as it is now - there's just no pretty way to fix it.

Okay? So whats the point in this tangent?

Institutionalized for saying "suicide" is not same as labeling them "insane". The terms insane isn't even used in medical terms these days as the words like psychotic/autistic/schizophrenic/depression/etc are used.

Insane is a legal term anyway.

>Okay? So whats the point in this tangent?
I have no fraggin idea...

Some idiot just said that "sane" is defined by the powerful in response to someone else describing two nations for being sane for wanting to avoid mutually assured destruction.

*Generally* speaking, suicide is not considered a sane solution, so it seems to me that avoiding mutually assured destruction could quite aptly be described as a "sane" decision, as opposed to not avoiding it, and thus committing suicide.

(But yes, but being institutionalized is pretty much declaring you temporarily insane, legally speaking. Being declared non-competent often being the permanent declaration of said. Even if we in the industry don't like to use the word "insane".)

"MAD" is only sane when the sides have equal capability to destroy one another throughly.

When one side has nothing and other side has everything, it would be considered insane to follow the MAD doctrine by either side. One side can throughly destroy the other, other side has no power to carry out MAD.

Building proxies is outside the realm of MAD doctrine. Russia/China may consider each other proxies to the US/West. They may also consider NK as proxies to the west. The MAD doctrine has nothing on NK's rise to power.

so free trade is a good thing now? fucking neoliberals I swear

NK didn't (and does not yet) have the capacity to engage with MAD with the US, but he wasn't talking about NK - he was talking about Russia and China.

Granted, China didn't have the bomb until 1968, so for most of the period in question, they didn't either. Still, not wanting to go nuclear over the issue was a factor.

Umm... Neoliberalism is all about free trade.

It's also pretty much the opposite of "liberalism" as the US understands it.

I said Berlin instead of Beijing in a response paper for a class I was in this year, Modern Chinese History.
Such is life, you do not go alone.

Still is... US invades NK, NK wipes out Seoul, launches or delivers what nukes it can to the US/SK/Japan, blows up a city or two. US retaliates with nukes... China nukes back... Russia's automated hair triggers go off... MAD shitshow ensues for everyone involved, and this internet thing finally gets to be used for what it was actually designed for.

Ritual suicide would be considered something reasonable or admirable in certain cultures, some pretty big ones like Japan.

This guy. He gets an award

>implying norks wants MAD

>implying china really cares for NK

>US retaliates with nukes

Makes no sense at all.

If, and that's a very big if, the US decides to use nukes against NK, they will be preemptive.

How would NK do in a war?

The could hold out for a very very long time. NK is all hills and they've got thousands miles of tunnels.

Collapse nearly instantly. The entire problem is that China would probably try to annex some of NK, and that would lead to a large war.

You overestimate what a perpetually starving military is capable of. They have 60's tier tech at best, with the petrol and food reserves for mere days of conflict. That's if they don't just fold instantly, faith in the regime has been going nothing but down in recent years.

I don't know where you are getting your information but SK propaganda is not a reliable source for practical information.

NK has better agricultural land than SK by a fair margin.

Not him, nice argument dumbass.

Not much, people may be getting tired of regime.

But you have to ask, a war with who? If its America, then China will not have it. If its China, then NK will be either toppled and have a puppet regime in charge.

Saying that the claims he is making are incorrect, in this case by assuming his sources are unreliable, is totally an argument.

Whatever your opinion of the US, there is no way that would fly (even if Trump is in charge now)... On the other hand, if the NK nuked something, there's almost no way the US wouldn't nuke back.

They ain't putting up with nukes landing on their doorstep, save maybe in a situation where China "okayed" it beforehand (which, while slim, is a possibility I could see happening.)

Additionally, they have early warning systems just like the US and Russia, and any nuke heading towards Korea, is going to look like it's heading at both China and Russia.

Which explains why they are starving...

Not well in the long term, unless the brainwashing is working better than we think it is. But they could do damage unlike anyone's seen since the second world war, in the short term. (Though mostly to SK and Japan.)

Seoul, at least, would be reduced to a memorial.

If the brainwashing is working better than expected, and their opponent fails to take out the entire leadership and all potential successors quickly, it could turn into a long protracted war, as they have all sorts of crazy elaborate networks of bunkers and Tolkien-dwarf level undermountain mazes with gigantic stockpiles that'd take forever to clear out, and they seem to have no qualms about slave driving and sacrificing their civilians en mass.

And yes, then there's the question as to whether China will back them, and what other anti-US interest might decide to.

>yfw when you realize North Korea is more national socialist than communist

>Which explains why they are starving...

The "starvation" reports by the west are always greatly exaggerated for propaganda purposes

...and that's why NK is constantly demanding food aid, and was taking in more than any nation in the world for a full decade?

I mean, in the end, that's largely what all Kim's bitching is about - he wants us to help make it easier to placate his people again.

Same reason America didn't

[Citation needed]

China is also essentially a Nazi country.

>Authoritarian dictatorship
>Ethnocentric
>Venerates the military
>Strong state control of economy with some crony capitalism
>Irredentist and belligerent towards geopolitical goals
>Play up a state-controlled national mythology with historical figures as deities

Colour the Chinese flag black and you've got Nazi Germany.

yeah except the people are ugly and weak as shit

At least America tried.

Do you realize how much worse off it'd be if Kim had the WHOLE peninsula?

>at least America tried

China (and sometimes Russia) tried in 1994, 1998, 2003-2007, 2011, and 2016.

"Tried" is meaningless. All parties outside SK and NK benefit from NK's existence.

>China 2016
>dictatorship

Post discarded

unironically the most aesthetic large structure ever built on the face of the earth.

lookin right at home sittin in it's future fog

Actually a shame it's fucked inside.

>Ethnocentric

Do you read anything other than Western media headlines

The Chinese have affirmative action programs at all main universities for every Turkic goatfucker minority, including the Tibetans and Uyghur muslims they're "oppressing"

>Venerates the military
Not nearly as much as the U.S

They never had the technical experience in their population.

>Lmao imma pull stuff out of my ass cause who needs sources on a history board
This place was descent for the first week, and now its this.

Weren't South Koreans sneaking into North Korea for years since the South was so shit?

Globalist fucks like the Amerifats, Chinks, or Vodkacunts don't give a fuck about what's right, they give a fuck about money and power mah nigga. And with that dwarf in power, the Reds had just that.

>Hey US, I want to make a deal with you
>No, fuck off, I don't like you now since you drilled oil off the shore of Cuba when I told you you not too, so fuck you faggot
>Oh shit shitty Cuban oil isn't worth a pissed off US why did I not see that before

You might be the most common sense bankrupt retard on this website

North Korea in Nutshell:
>no fun allowed, only fun approved by our great leader
>no hapinness allowed, only hapiness approved by our great leader
>if you fail you will be treat like the most horrible person and we will punish you to death
>we watch you, do not even try to oppose us
>poor people deserve death, elites deserve power and fame
>poor people must not use computers, cars, etc or their death will be achieved
>tyranny is good
>everyone except Russia, China and NK is a moron that should be killed
>no other gods are allowed, the only God is Kim dynasty
etc

>chink mentions Tianmen Square
>gets shot by the government
btw, my flag is red, blue and white with a two headed eagle with a crown