Were the Normans "French"?

No it wasn't. That's bs the republic made up in the late 1800s to kill regionalism and assimilate non Parisians

I see, do you have any sources that Norman French wasn't a dialect of French?

Yeah any linguist worth his salt.

>Linguists divide the Romance languages of France, and especially of Medieval France, into three geographical subgroups: Langues d'oïl and occitan, named after their words for 'yes' (oïl, òc), and Franco-Provençal (Arpitan), which is considered transitional

>don't speak French
>be a half-caste mix of Norse and raped French women
>be blond
>conquer England, then turn around and try and conquer the rest of France
>eventually dissolve as a cultural group in England and get wrecked on the continent

The Normans were French after they were conquered, but when they ruled England? No, they were distinct, but not distinct enough that they weren't assimilated.

>Langues d'oïl

>By the 11th century, they spoke a dialect of Old French called Norman French. At that point, Old French, also called the Langue d’Oil

?????????

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_language

Norman (Normaund, French: Normand, Guernésiais: Normand, Jèrriais: Nouormand) is a Romance language which can be classified as one of the Oïl languages along with Picard and Walloon. The name Norman-French is sometimes used to describe not only the Norman language, but also the administrative languages of Anglo-Norman and Law French used in England. For the most part, the written forms of Norman and modern French are intercomprehensible.

What the fuck are you on about? Norman (medieval and modern) and French itself, old and modern, are both langues d'oïl. Whether or not you class them as separate languages is entirely a judgment call -- a language is a dialect with a navy and an army and all that -- but your quote has fuck-all to do with anything.

Your point being?

At this point I'm convinced you're just pasting random paras from Wikipedia without actually reading them in the hopes that one of them will prove you right.

Unfortunately, you're not right. You're also not wrong either. You understand?

A language d oil isn't a french dialect. They are a group of languages from Gallo-romance

You love Wikipedia so much, read their page on the langues d'oïl. They describe it as a dialect continuum. It could also be fairly described as a grouping of languages, yes. Neither is "right," that's a judgment call, and I can guarantee I'd be able to find linguists who'd call it both ways. There's no universal set of criteria by which to classify something as a "dialect" or as its own language ("mutual intelligibility" is very fuzzy; going off that, though, the langues d'oïl arguably should be counted as dialects, not languages).

Get five different scholars of the Romance languages in a room and ask them "How many Romance languages are there, in total?" and very possibly you'll get five different answers. Ditto for any language family, really.

Seriously. Come on, man. This isn't hard. Do you understand what I'm telling you? You don't even have to admit that you're wrong. You're only wrong in that you're acting as though something that's a subjective judgment call has an objectively right or wrong answer.

Keep sallowing french propaganda

When they arrived they were Danish vikings (yes, viking, the profession)
But by 1066, they had become French, both genetically and culturally

Genetically, they had interbred with the locals for eight generations
Rollo's son (2nd generation) was already 50% French through his mother, so you can easily imagine that William, seven generations of interbreeding latern, was over 80% French

As for the culture, they spoke French, adopted French religion and lived according to the French feudal system
Even in warfare they had been Frenchified (heavy use of cavalry)

>what the fuck does French even mean anyway, Frankish?
This dumb confusion has to stop
Calling anyone "Frankish" past the 9th century is pure nonsense
Butthurt Brits sometimes call the Normans that to avoid saying French but that's mere butthurt

After the 9th century, there are the French on the West and the Germans on the East
Franks didnt exist anymore
The French still called themselves "Franks" for a while (unlike the Germans who started to LARP as Romans instead) but they werent Franks, they were French

The only acceptable use of the term "Frank" past the 9th century is in the context of the Crusades
During the First Crusade, the overwhelming majority of crusaders were French, and as I explained above, the French still refered to themselves as Franks
Therefore upon meeting muslims, they identified themselves as such and muslims generalized that name to all Europeans

Tl:dr:

Franks =
-Either the inhabitants of Francia before the 9th century
-Either the name by which muslims called Europeans during the Crusades

But using "Franks" to define a people in Europe in the 11th century is full retard

It isnt
The only difference were a few words spelled differently
If Norman was it's own language, then so is American English

You're full of shit
The Northern half of France spoke French since the Middle Ages
It's the Souther half that didnt until recently
Pic related, the part in blue spoke Old French, the rest didnt

Norman was oil, dumb retad

Why do people who get BTFO this hard still stick to their guns?

French propaganda

Yes but that answer doesn't allow for racists to bicker over the racial purity of random europeans and whether they count as "White, but like WHITE White."

No, it is a French dialect you stupid snownigger.

>don't speak French
>half-caste
>be blond

None of these things describe William the Conqueror.

See that mustache? That's William.

When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.

>Source my ass

Why are like 60% of Veeky Forums threads some variation of "what race was X?"

Dude it's common knowledge. I didn't know how people can post on a history board and not know history

Better then the other 40% of "Hitler would have won if only X"

They became French overtime, Norse people mixed in with the French natives.

>Were the Normans "French"?
Yes

>I know they were Norse settlers but I keep seeing them referred to as "French", what the fuck does French even mean anyway, Frankish?
Bring French means being part of the Gallo-Roman ethnicity. Franks contributed small amounts of culture in northern France and did much to shake their way of society, their culture remained predominantly the Gallic-influenced Roman one.

Normans weren't French, Bretons weren't classed as French, nor were Burgundians, or Gascons, or the Flemish

I don't see why people can't seem to grasp this, even if culturally similar they were considered their own units. The Norman take over of Sicily wasn't a French one and the clashes with the Byzantines were specifically Norman adventurers not French.

I said it yesterday it's french propaganda stemming from the late 1800s

It's rough trying to make the connection since there isn't a very simple past-present transition from previous cultures to the French one, but it does exist. If you're speaking the Langues de oïl variant of vulgar Latin at that time, you're the predecessor to the modern French culture.
The Normans did that.

Geordie is its own language.
Scouser is its own language.
Texan is its own language.

Except Norman and Picard aren't dialects

>Normans weren't French, Bretons weren't classed as French, nor were Burgundians, or Gascons, or the Flemish

Because these groups were actually culturally different
Unlike them, Normans had by 1066 become fully French, both culturally and genetically and are thus classed as French, just like Angevins, Poitevins, Picards...erc

The Normans were French, only the elite had a dash of Scando blood.

John Beddoe found that Norman skulls tended to be round and not long-headed, like their French brethren.

French as a national concept didnt really exist. You had some inkling of a shared national bond by Joan of Arc's time and the end of the Hundred Years War but basically you were a breton, a norman, etc...

However culturally they were extremely similar to each other, the norse quickly adapted to the local ways as well.

If you dont want to call them ethnically French, you could say they shared a similar cultural bond with the rest of what would be France. They spoke slightly different French but slight variations on a language isnt always very strong indicator for a uniquely different culture.

If you are speaking of the ethnicity... The majority of people who lived in Normandy are basically the same as in the rest of France in that time. The local elite had norse blood but by the time of William, they was quite a bit of mixed blood from marriages to local/continental women where it doesnt really matter anymore. No one in Denmark at the time would have recognized a Norman as a Norse.

Give us a source then you asshat, or stop spouting it ffs

Franc was used as a fairly generic term, even for people not under the suzerainty of the French king. For example the Normans who conquered Sicily were called, and called themselves Francs

>French ethnicity

No such thing. Besides their whole maternal line had been local for centuries. They had hardly even a drop of viking blood left. Non-nobility was entirely local too.

Only 20% of French spoke the royal dialect.

See By the 11th century, Frank meant French
The other parts of the former Frankish Empire had ceased identifying with that term
Only the French kept doing that (which is why their country is still called "France")

When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.

My family tree goes back to 950 in Normandy. While my ancestors at Hastings may not have identified as French since France at the time was much smaller factually, I own their heritage and certainly do identify as a French.
Now the real question is: could they identify as within the French kindgom's influence or did they feel completely detached of it? I can't answer that :

>While my ancestors at Hastings may not have identified as French since France at the time was much smaller factually

That's not how it worked
Being French was about French language and culture, not about the political borders of the French Royal Domain
When the Angevins formed their empire, they directly opposed the French Kingdom (pic related), yet they still identified as French
It had nothing to do with political borders

Basically everything in blue on the pic there was French and identified as such