Be the greatest man of the middle ages

Pepe el Frog did all that... really makes you think about what you're doing with your life.

>It never did. Portugal tried later on though

Then how did the Spanish crown end up with control over cities along the North African coast in the early 16th century?

>He needs a painting/picture with the name of the person to know about who we are talking about
Why are you on his?

>North African coast in the early 16th century?
Spain captured some NA cities that were important to secure trade. A full invasion of Morocco never was attempted

>Spain captured some NA cities that were important to secure trade. A full invasion of Morocco never was attempted

So, they DID expand into North Africa, just not in the direction you think they should have.

Now go look up to what happened to all those cities they took; invariably, they were expensive to keep, were hated by the locals, and facing constant Ottoman agitation from areas that were difficult to reinforce but easy for the Ottomans to send money to help raise local forces.

Why the fuck do you think Morocco would be any different?

>Why the fuck do you think Morocco would be any different?
A) This was before the rise of the ottomans
B)The ottomans didn't have the reach to do anything in Morocco as it was shown by the Portuguese invasion

>Don't conquer North Africa, just a bunch of useless dessert and sand niggers
>Instead, conquer the rich lands of the Americas, all the amerindian qts and become the first modern empire.
>This triggers European domination in the world

Charles made the right call.

>A) This was before the rise of the ottomans

If you want a centuries long occupation, no, it is not beyond the reach that the Ottomans will develop.

>B)The ottomans didn't have the reach to do anything in Morocco as it was shown by the Portuguese invasion

The one that the Moroccans repelled themselves in the 1570s? Or the ones that also carved out a few coastal enclaves earlier and never went inland?

>Thinking I was talking about Charles
Wew all these his plebians in my board

>If you want a centuries long occupation, no, it is not beyond the reach that the Ottomans will develop.
It was 1250's. Morocco was an easy target as he destroyed all their armies alredy

>It was 1250's

You mean, before the Reconquista was finished? Good luck with that.

>You mean, before the Reconquista was finished?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_III_of_Castile
It was de facto over. Ferdinand had alredy conquered everything and vassalized Granada. Morocco was an easy target as he alredy destroyed their fleet and army

>mfw north african
>mfw this dumb LARPer American op

>mobile
Why are you shitposting when you should be flipping burgers?

Nice comeback Al-Rashid the goatfucker

>I am retarded but KEEP TALKING.

First off

>Morocco was an easy target as he alredy destroyed their fleet and army

This is the 13th century baby. There's no such thing as a standing army, just forces you raise for individual campaigns. You have plenty of precedent of people bouncing back from their armies being destroyed.

Secondly, while Granada was weak, it would take another 2 centuries to fully absorb, and longer to replace the Muslims with Christians, by either expulsion or conversion; for fuck's sake, Andalusia had a Morisco majority until the late 16th century. And that's in the Iberian peninsula proper where there are lots of Christians to influence them with, or, if necessary, send out to replace the population.

You try doing that in Morocco. See how many hundreds of years it will take you. And that's before the other Islamic powers in the region that are there at the time and would develop throughout history come in and start fucking with you, or before the fact that you're dumping the treasury down an ideological black hole causes your nobles to revolt against you.

It. Will. Never. Work.

>There's no such thing as a standing army, just forces you raise for individual campaigns. You have plenty of precedent of people bouncing back from their armies being destroyed.
Morocco was in the middle of a civil war. Their levies were crushed and the manpower pull was low. It didn't took much to fully assimilate Granada and Andalucia was integrated in a matter of years

>Morocco was in the middle of a civil war.

Somehow, I doubt that civil war would last centuries.

> Their levies were crushed and the manpower pull was low.

Until they raise new manpower, at worst a generation down the line.

> It didn't took much to fully assimilate Granada and Andalucia was integrated in a matter of years

It took decades of forced conversions and then more decades of expulsions when the forced conversions weren't working, all the while punctuated by regular revolts. The fuck are you on?

b-b-but it's so easy in medieval 2 total war!

>Be the greatest man in the middle ages
But Genghis Khan did none of those things.

Lay off the EU and CK or just shoo back to /gsg/

>manpower was on low
In the MA you didn't had troop counts like in 19th/20 th century and even look at ww2 just 20 years after ww1 with millions of people lost on all sides. So how difficult would if had been to find a few new thousend marrocs to fight again even if you consider the smaller population ?

If I could do it over I would have taken the humanist idea tree.

>Somehow, I doubt that civil war would last centuries.
It was still going on until the smallpox
>Until they raise new manpower
Most of them where alredy fighting
>It took decades of forced conversions and then more decades of expulsions when the forced conversions weren't working, all the while punctuated by regular revolts. The fuck are you on?
Can you name me 3 moorish revolts from 1250 until 1492? You seem to know little to nothing about this topic

> you can't make the most extreme muslims at that time (Berbers) Christians
During the reconquisita, some berber communities survived high up in the mountains of spain far behind christian lines and they were peacefully converted so that's not a real issue

You are talking about Alfonso X right?
He still hadn't invaded Granada for fucks sake.

He's talking about Fernando III of Castille and his son and heir Alfonso X, and this is the XIII century.

Alfonso wasn't a military kind of king but, apart of his retardations involving the HRE, he was otherwise a pretty good king.

>You are talking about Alfonso X
Alfonso the """wise""" was the retarded son of based Ferdinand the saint.
>He still hadn't invaded Granada for fucks sake.
Granada was vasallized.Ferdinand alredy sacked multiple Moroccan cities and was about to conquer the whole thing.
>he was otherwise a pretty good king.
>muh laws
Fuck off. He ruined Ferdinand's legacy with full autistic memery

>It was still going on until the smallpox

And then you know what happened when the Almohads fell apart? The Marinids came along from further east and overran Morocco, most of it during your idol Ferdinand's reign.

>Most of them where alredy fighting

Most of the Almohads were fighting. The Almohads are not all of Morocco, and the link between a state and its people wouldn't hold for the entirety of the feudal era.

>Can you name me 3 moorish revolts from 1250 until 1492?

You mean, outside of the period where the Christians were oppressing the Moors for being moors? You seem to completrely be unable to read, or connect logical thoughts together. I was thinking of shit like the Alpujerra revolts, which were directly sparked by the Christians starting to convert Moors. You didn't have that before the late 15th century; but in your alt-his, you would have, and thus sparked similar revolts.

>The Marinids came along
Which were easily pimped off later on.
>Most of the Almohads were fighting. The Almohads are not all of Morocco
They were. Why would Morocco bring any problems while Sevilla that had a huge population and was way more relevant brought none? Ferdinand could have conquered Morocco in 5 years as he was a military and political genius
>You didn't have that before the late 15th century
Thank you for proving my point. Ferdinand was so charismatic that he converted thousands of muslims and jews to the point that in his grave you can find his name written in arabic and Hebrew

>muh laws

And the School of Toledo, support for burgers and cities, taming the nobility... also establishing the Mesta I think? That was a big bad mistake though.

There's more to life as a king than partidas and fighting moors, user.

>And the School of Toledo
Kind of important
>support for burgers and cities
He supported merchants that wanted to export all the wool which weakened the manufacture of textil products in Castile and destroyed the ecosystem of part of la meseta.Great fucking job
> taming the nobility
This is ruling 101.He never weakened them which caused 4 civil wars later on
>There's more to life as a king than partidas and fighting moors, user.
That's were you are wrong

>Which were easily pimped off later on.

What? I can't even tell what you're trying to say with this, but it was the Marinids who pushed off into Iberia in the latter half of the 13th century, not the other way around.

> Why would Morocco bring any problems while Sevilla that had a huge population and was way more relevant brought none?

Because you don't have an adjacent population of Christians to move in with and intermingle with the locals, instead having just millions of Muslims to deal with? A single city isn't the same as a countryside that stretches for literally tens of thousands of square kilometers.

>Thank you for proving my point.

Are you a complete idiot? Ferdinand didn't try to forcibly convert people. He didn't try to occupy areas where there was 0 Christian presence. I'm denying your point has any rational bearing to what you're proposing.

> that in his grave you can find his name written in arabic and Hebrew

That doesn't mean he converted anyone you imbecile, nor that he could have demographically replaced Morocco.

We're dealing with a DEUS VULT larper. What are you expecting?

>I can't even tell what you're trying to say with this, but it was the Marinids who pushed off into Iberia
They got BTFO and their fleet was sunk
>Because you don't have an adjacent population of Christians
The christian population was still large in Morocco and the straight is pretty small.The colonizations could have been pretty easy.Mallorca was colonized and there was a bigger distance from the mainland than Morocco
>He didn't try to occupy areas where there was 0 Christian presence
Morocco had christian presence and he was conquering until he died
>That doesn't mean he converted anyone you imbecile
He converted a whole kingdom by himself.You are just an ignorant goat lover

>They got BTFO and their fleet was sunk

When did that happen? How did they get into Rota and Gibraltar?

>The christian population was still large in Morocco

Bullshit. Source.

> and the straight is pretty small.

It's spelled "strait", and population transfer and displacement is enormously difficult, even across straits.

>.Mallorca was colonized and there was a bigger distance from the mainland than Morocco

It was conquered. I've never heard of anyone claiming that there was large scale population transfer. Surely you can prove that, yes?

>Morocco had christian presence and he was conquering until he died

He wasn't conquering Marinid possessions.

>He converted a whole kingdom by himself.

Then why were there so many Islamic moors in the areas he conquered centuries after he died? What was Torquemada doing with all that forced converting and expelling?

>When did that happen?
After the battle of Rio salado the Castillian fleet sunk their fleet
>Bullshit. Source.
>Morocco was home to half a million European Christians
>and population transfer and displacement is enormously difficult, even across straits.
Mallorca was colonized.Morocco is 10 km away from some coastal cities in Spain
>ve never heard of anyone claiming that there was large scale population transfer. Surely you can prove that, yes
>Gracias a todo ello, los musulmanes supervivientes tuvieron tiempo de organizar diferentes focos de resistencia en las montañas, lo que prolongó durante un par de años más las luchas contra los musulmanes en Mallorca, que finalmente acabaron convertidos en esclavos o semi-esclavos. A raíz de toda esta destrucción, pero también debido a la debilidad en que había quedado el ejército de Jaime I, Menorca pidió el vasallaje de la Corona y así le fue concedido. De esta manera, Menorca se convertiría en una taifa autónoma donde la religión y la cultura árabe todavía se mantuvieron medio siglo más. Pero en pleno enero de 1287, y con una flota medio diezmada por un fuerte temporal, Alfonso el Franco llegó al puerto de Mahón. El almojarife pactó la capitulación de modo que caudillos y nobles pudieron escapar de los catalanes a cambio de entregar el resto de la población para ser esclavizada.
Muslims became mostly slaves and Catalans colonized the island which is pretty obvious if you have visited the region
>He wasn't conquering Marinid possessions.
And?
>Then why were there so many Islamic moors in the areas he conquered centuries after he died?
They weren't.Most moors were in Granada (just conquered) and Valencia which was conquered by the Aragonese. Why do you love so much to talk about a topic that you clearly have no fucking clue about? You are making a fool out of yourself

>After the battle of Rio salado the Castillian fleet sunk their fleet

So, almost a hundred years after the death of old Ferdi, and over 50 after the death of Alfonso, long after the Marinids got to Iberia. It also didn't result in territorial gains in Africa.

>Mallorca was colonized.Morocco is 10 km away from some coastal cities in Spain

I would like a source for the claim of half a million European Christians in Morocco in the 13th century, as well as population transfer in Majorca.

> De esta manera, Menorca se convertiría en una taifa autónoma donde la religión y la cultura árabe todavía se mantuvieron medio siglo más.

You did read that part, yes? An autonomous region with strong Arab religion and culture?

>And?

And the Marinids held most of Morocco during the end of his reign.

>They weren't.Most moors were in Granada (just conquered) and Valencia which was conquered by the Aragonese. Why do you love so much to talk about a topic that you clearly have no fucking clue about? You are making a fool out of yourself

Says the man who literally posted something that contradicted his own thesis (and provided no source to the Spanish text), presumably because he doesn't have the faintest inkling what it means. Tell me, oh wise scholar, why they were busy expelling Moors and Moriscos some 200+ years after they were supposedly gone? Conquered does not mean the population was eliminated, you do realize that, right?