"You can't deport immigrants, the United States was built on immigration"

ugh

just go back to your containment board i've had enough with this racist shit on here

epic falseflag, fellow /pol/bro!

don't forget to post a screencap on /r/thedonald!

>the "native americans were genocided!" meme

also, last time I checked, all the buildings and roads in america werent made of cotton

>claim to be a progressive
>justify your position by citing of hundreds of years of tradition

lmao then why is every construction worker, house maid, landscaper, kitchen worker, pizza delivery boy and agricultural worker Mexican or central American

this post is dumb, small businesses depend on the cheap labor provided by illegal aliens, this is the reason why both parties turned a blind eye to it for 25 years

Are you saying that Native American peoples contributed nothing?

RACIST

>America was built upon immigration, however it was built upon USEFUL immigration
All immigration is inherently useful, the problem is xenophobes arbitrarily shift around the definition of "useful" to suit their needs and political opinion

1.) illegal immigrants can't get benefits or otherwise "mooch" off the system as government programs require a host of ID and a ssn, which they don't have

2.) their existence here presupposes they found some economic niche as point 1 excludes them from existing here without it

3.) ssn's and reliable identification are fairly recent inventions. Nations existed with nebulous borders and largely uncontrolled transit through most of human history. The US will survive a few million Guatemalans and Mexicans or it didn't deserve to exist to begin with

4.) when they have fake ID's and ssn's they get no pension/Medicare/benefits. They still however pay towards them.

Rather than trying to control something history demonstrates to be uncontrollable in the long run you fags should try finding ways to assimilate them faster but scared fags never learn.

>everyone I disagree with is a nazi
there's nothing he said that was racist, it was mainly about economics and the value of unskilled vs skilled immigration - look up the eastern European agricultural migration in the UK. "unskilled" doesnt = brown.

Their economic niche is depreciating the wages of poor people.

>this
calling a brutal conflict that lasted DECADES and was filled with immorality and war crimes on both sides "genocide" is intellectually dishonest and nothing more than pseudo-int memeing that lit majors recite.

>there's nothing he said that was racist
Trying to control immigration to the exclusion of peaceful individuals makes you racist. If they haven't broken a law back home and you can verify it, the door should be open.

>I hate competition
>Give me my tendies and waifus
Commies leave

It will rectify eventually. You can't keep them out forever so you can deal with it now or our kids can die in some retarded resource war later.

That's a pretty extreme viewpoint. Actual open borders haven't been implemented anywhere in the world to my knowledge.

IIRC Argentina maybe

>neo-con / pseudo-liberal economics 101
> we need cheep labor
> think of the business owners!
> fuck our own working class
> everyone should be entrepreneurs
>*bankrupts because of financial expediency*
>think of the minorities!!!
>you want to help native workers, welders, manufactures, farmers?!?!?!
> What are you some kind of bigot??
>pockets fill with money made my fucking over employees wanting a fair wage

>Actual open borders haven't been implemented anywhere in the world to my knowledge.
Basically every country pre-1920 in practical terms

If you looked the part you weren't hassled.

w2c 0:58, she is a qt. who?

>That's a pretty extreme viewpoint
I think you trying to Change the way individuals have traveled for nigh 12000 years is the extreme viewpoint.

How many of today's immigrants "look the part"?

It sounds like that permissive pre-1920 policy would be illegal today.

Except only one side was mostly wiped out.

> All immigration is useful
lad
wew

tell that to the Romans breh, pretty sure all of those illegitimate citizens which crashed the stable economic paradigm through massive uncontrolled waves of people wanting to move into Rome and take jobs which the demand/supply were already tapped out
were
not
fucking
useful
>Rip Lictor qt.s

America was built on white Anglo Saxon Protestant immigrants and black slaves with subsequent waves of other Western Europeans. This does not mean that anyone can live here whenever they feel like it. They need to follow the protocol for gaining citizenship. If they didn't do this, they've got to go or be dealt with otherwise. Just because at one point in America it was easier to gain citizenship does not mean that it should always be that easy. There were reasons why it was easy before and there are reasons it's difficult today. With this said, it's probably not the most prudent idea to deport all the illegal immigrants.

It doesn't matter how good of a person you are as an immigrant. Nations adopt different immigration policy to suit political and economic needs. Sometimes they create incentives to come and other times they make it harder. How idealistic are you?

Point is that for most nations as long as you looked and sounded local that was all that mattered

There was little in practical terms they could do to stop you or find you out. Even weirdos could always just be weird.

>tell that to the Romans breh
I can't

They died after they built walls to keep hoards of immigrants out instead of figuring out how to assimilate them within their borders

Kinda like you wanna do.

>trying to stop people immigrating Into your country makes you racist.
uhhh no it doesn't?
What if the prospective immigrants are the same ethnicity as you .

>hurrdurr everything I don't like is racist!
>my dad wouldn't take me to hot topic what a nazi
>all men are sexist amirite? :DDDD

for fuck sake this is suppose to be an academic board.

Up until the 60's it was mainly European migration, then we let everyone else in and we've been getting worse in more ways then we have better.

>Nations adopt different immigration policy to suit political need
Yes, racist need

What if you neither looked nor sounded local?
What if you had noticeably different physical features from the rest of the locals, did not speak the local language, and practiced a religion and culture ideologically predisposed to the destruction of the local way of life?

sooo?? The strongest army is the bad guy? That is some pretty strange moral system you have there.

>What if the prospective immigrants are the same ethnicity as you .
Then I guess you're just bigoted.

>strongest army
>army
Mostly civilians killed there cap'n

I think the bad guy in this instance is 90% smallpox.

> LISTEN TITUS!
>JUST BE NICE TO THE HUNS
>THE VANDALS ARE JUST MISUNDERSTOOD YOU BIGOT!
the fuck are you talking about? Those poor "immigrants" were the very ones who killed innocent romans

your making a pretty good argument for why we need to have a massive wall/military superiority.

Then you should be culturally assimilated and/or the culture you go into should change.

>bigoted

nope.

that's not how that word works either.

Almost none of the construction workers where I live or have visited have been hispanic, most are either white or black. I'll give you landscapers, they're mostly Mexicans, but here's a newsflash. I don't know where you live, but "maid" is not a large industry in 98% of not only the country, but the socioeconomics classes.
Pizza boys are also almost always white or black where I live. All the Mexicans in the food industry are running their own restaurants where I live.

Don't confuse the bubble you live in with the world at large.

I agree, political can include racist motives, but to assume that is the only possible factor is ignorant. Economic factors real or imagined do exist that affect immigration policy.

Shh

They're not supposed to know you're on our side Satan.

My nation was founded on a big turf war between two mafias.
And yet, we don't want organized crime in here

>i literally have no understanding of Roman history in late antiquity

>Stable economy

You mean the one that was massively fucked by centuries of civil war and inflation leading to a proto-feudalistic system?

>massive wave of immigrants trying to take jobs

The fuck are you even on about? The mass migrations were for many reasons and not all were accepted. Most just came crashing through because Rome was too busy fighting itself to do anything about it.

Goths were necessary to maintain the legions because there was a manpower shortage due to declining enlistment. Also mainly caused by said civil wars.

>illegitimate citizens

The fuck does this even mean? Caracalla made everybody within the empire a citizen, to increase his tax base. The migrators weren't citizens. Even the Goths who made up a good deal of the legions. And they were reminded of this by Honorius when he had their wives and children murdered, causing a revolt which directly led to the sacking of Rome.

The immigrants that were allowed in were absurdly useful and their mismanagement was an utter fuck up on the Roman's part.

>cultural assimilation

But that's racist! We should celebrate diversity!

Illegals do not improve an economy, they do not create wealth, they only work menial labor which is service industry.
Even if you want to (correctly) comment on how US agriculture is kept up by Mexican workers, many of them work here legally. I have very little respect for farmers who hire illegals because they pay them pennies on the dollar for work legal workers do, and the entire farming industry is kept afloat with massive government subsidies, anyways. It's a bloated economy and a shady economy.

Those that move with violent intent are one thing. Others were seeking peaceful settlement and treating them all like Huns caused a whole lot of avoidable problems.

>germ theory wasn't developed yet
So were the casualties wrought by natives. Look up 1st hand sources we have journals from frontiersmen. They mutilated livestock and murdered women and children - the exchange usually was as follows:
> livestock overgraze on Indian land(no fences back then)
> natives kill livestock
> farmer kills braves
> braves kill farmers family
>town kills entire tribe

actually very similar to Palestine / Israel conflict as far as escalation

>can't keep them out forever
That's where you are wrong, Paco

>to assume that is the only possible factor is ignorant.
That's the main motivator though.

Farming subsidies are cancer my man. Read about them a while back and was so surprised because I had always thought they were ok. Ironically enough I read about them in my global issues class because lots of African farmers get wrecked by cheap subsidized western crops that flood their markets.

8 years tops

The Belgian Walloons were the first mass influx of immigrants to America, via the Dutch West India Company.

If America was built white Anglo Saxon Protestant, then they merely built upon the foundations of the Walloons, who had no option of returning to Europe unlike the white Anglo Saxon Protestant.

everyone that disagrees with me is obviously just uneducated
differences of opinion can't exist for any other reason.

fuck, for people who harp on about helping poor people so much I've never heard such gross elitism drip from a mouth.

Especially fucking corn subsidies.

So you would say an influx of immigrants is always beneficial. You don't think immigration policy is based on labor needs at all?

I don't see any raiders storming England
Wall still works

>"You can't deport immigrants,
Ultimately, might is right.
>the United States was built on immigration"
If you look at a historical US GDP graph that is true.

True for the most part.
>overabundance of unemployed
You don't get to bitch about that.

>runs on pandering to xenophobes
>ends up building wall to regulate flow before actually reforming immigration system to legalize the 13 million illegal

I would laugh pretty hard.

Many don't realize the US provides somewhere near 70% of the world's grain, which we give to poor nations for free as a friendly gesture. Only to realize it ass fucks them down the road.
The Chinese do similar things with their steel, and it is currently recking the English/ Indian steel markets.

Society also had no safety nets in the 20s. Aside from charitable soup kitchens, but that's not comparable to the welfare system today.

Any country that's not a shithole people are trying to escape from setting up open borders is going to commit economic suicide. If we had no safety nets then I would welcome free immigration so long as the immigrants were without a criminal record.
But open borders in modern American would be the end of America or the end of Welfare. Welfare cannot exist so long as you are taking on the poor, hungry huddled masses and then paying them to live there.
The poor and the hungry came to America and they worked. Even if we take the insane assumption that all immigrants would be willing AND able to work (in reality a vast majority would not be both willing and able), there would not be enough jobs on the entire continent combined for them. We have MASSIVE unemployment in the US already, and you're advocating for increasing the burden on tax payers even more due to millions of new people competing for thousands of jobs at the most.

When we can afford to pay people to exist, we will, but this isn't Star Trek. This is 2017 and we still have people dying by the wayside due to entirely preventable or curable diseases in the United States of America. How can we save the poor and downtrodden of Mexico if we can't even save our poor and downtrodden citizens?

he is giving the opinion which is based on feels instead of reals.
every economic decision is based on the age old suply/demand.
importing 8million welders into a place like Colombia for example
IS
NOT
BENEFICIAL.
cultural opinions are not > than actual economic needs of a nation

>In 1624, the first colonists, mostly Walloons and their slaves-bound servants, arrived to New Netherland by the shipload, landing at Governors Island and initially dispensed to Fort Orange, Fort Wilhelmus and Kievets Hoek. In 1626, Director of the WIC Peter Minuit purchased the island of Manhattan from the Lenape natives and started construction of Fort Amsterdam, which grew to become the main port and capital, New Amsterdam. The colony expanded to outlying areas at Pavonia, Brooklyn, Bronx, and Long Island.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_colonization_of_the_Americas#Mainland_North_America

I'll raid yer daughters panties innit

source

>USA only accept immigrants who wanted to work
And then they put up "Irish need not apply" all over the place

Illegals literally can't be welfare queens you dingus and legal immigrants pay into the system.

>overabundance of unskilled laborers and unemployed,
hmmmmm all the jobs were outsourced anyway

There's actually illegals who pay taxes even though they will never get entitlements.

Most of mexican illgeals deserve a path to citizenship.

>I don't get to bitch about how the only jobs I can find are minimum wage trashfires of a """"job"""" because everything else has Master's Degrees as a requirement or 4 years of prior experience before they'll even consider your resume because...
>you didn't actually give me a reason I can't bitch about the very real fact that we have like 30% unemployment
>what but the government said we only have 4-7% unemployment
>after all, the government does not include discouraged workers when counting unemployment :^)

We need to fix our own shit first. Sure, it's the "right" thing to do, to help other countries. But it's not exactly a smart thing to do. Charity is not called charity because it solves a utilitarian problem, after all.

Where the fuck are you going to get 8 million welders?

>illegal immigrants, who have no legal identification, are gaming welfare so they don't have to work

No basis in reality.

most burgers do not actually descend from injuns

Euro here. I'd take 5 Mexicans for every Somalian any day.

The Chinese have laid off 1 MILLION steel workers in the wake of the price crash.
Who gives a shit about a few Brits with their pretend cottage industries.

>cause massive obesity by dropping the market price of corn syrup below tap water
>undermine the economies of developing nations by dumping corn below any reasonable price
>drive small farmers out of business through competition with Monsanto™ RoundUp™ Ready high-density GMO corn

Corn subsidies are worse than Hitler.

I'm pretty sure there is a difference between rich factory owners needing immigrants as cheap labor and local citizens being upset immigrants can be used as replacements when they ask for raises or go on strikes. It certainly makes sense for any businesses not under the unskilled factory label to detest immigrant labor.

no you wouldn't

Listen to what I'm saying dumbass, stop arguing with yourselfs and start arguing with me.
If we grant open borders they're not illegal anymore. The whole reason they're illegal is because they are illegally crossing closed borders without authorization.

And at any rate, places like California are very much attempting to let illegal immigrants gain welfare. There are numerous times when illegals do end up on welfare as well. And if you want to go with the ridiculous assumption that we're going to allow free immigration and they somehow won't become a burden upon the government (they will, as they currently are) then you're advocating for creating ghettos in the US.

These people are going to be poor and sickly without welfare, if they are allowed into the US then everyone is going to expect the US to take care of them. Despite my prognostication of the dangers of doing so, I'm still a human being raised in the West, so I would very much expect the government to help these people not die, at the very least.

It's why I'd rather them stay in their country. If they come here they WILL be burdensome. The burdens of illegals in the US on my insurance both vehicular and medical is felt quite well by me. In the last 5 years my local area has been inflicted with two hit and runs by illegal Mexicans. One of them causing serious injury.

You cannot be refused life threatening medical treatment in the US, which I think is a good thing. But when someone in the country illegally ends up the ER they have no way to pay for it. Someone has to pay for those hospital bills, somebody has to pay for that broken axle.

It's not pretty, it's life. Allowing people who cannot afford to take care of themselves into your country either means you let them sink or you expend time, effort and money to keep them afloat. Letting unchecked immigration happen is a humanitarian boon and an economic murder suicide.

American here. Most Mexicans I meet are actually pretty chill. They work harder than most Americans and are generally extremely humble. They know what its like to go without. I understand the rationale behind pro and anti immigration sides, but my heart goes out to all those families just trying to get by.

who gives a fuck if nobody wants to buy shit Chinese steel and it's not profitable to overproduce and continue ruining your own environment 50 cent bureaucrat

The best irony of it is that not only does it hurt outside nations, it also costs the US taxpayer tons of money to support.

>(((((((("for example"))))))))

American here, and I agree. Mexicans are mostly fine. The problem is when they spend enough time in California to pick up critical race theory and go all NEO AZTLAN and start rioting.

I can't remember where I read the 70%, but here it mentions it was upto 50% not long ago. I heard about this a long time ago, and they may have been expecting it to reach a higher % with technology or something, I can't be sure. This is what I got after a quick Google search.

ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/wheat/trade/
As for the steel, it was happening the past couple years. I heard about it on NPR.

China sells more steel than the rest of the world combined, so clearly plenty of people want to buy it, and it's pretty good quality if it's being used in western cars for things like crankshafts and rods.

Absolutely. I have no problem with Mexicans as a people, I am 100% for allowing work visas and regulated immigration from Mexico. It's a net boon for everyone when they come here under legal means because it means they are either providing a necessary service or can support themselves.

Their country is largely terrible, and I fully understand what they're trying to get away from.
I would like to see the US spend a lot more time and money helping Mexico so Mexicans don't HAVE to leave Mexico.
The situation in Mexico is from a large variety of factors but part of it is the fault of the US itself. From governmental meddling to pot smokers to politicians using Mexican land as a literal dumping ground for chemical waste, the US has played a large part in turning Mexico into an unstable, poor as dirt warzone. We should help them, we need to help them. Strengthening Mexico can only strengthen the US and I wish we could stop focusing so much on helping them after the fact. Prevention is infinitely better than the cure.

Path to citizenship is not opening the border forever and for anyone to come in and fuck our white women. Those who have lived here for decades and/or contribute - well they get the border opened for them, much more profitable than deporting them based on misguided 'principle'.

It's cheaper, easier, better for Americans and for illegals. Doesn't mean you don't deport criminals (other than being illegally) or reduce the flow for the future.

Pic related.

India is also the 4th largest manufacturer of steel.

India's manufacturing has slowed down since modi has come to power though.

The fall of illegals in the US is due to economic downturn in the US. I'm not sure what your graph is proving or supporting, except that we have over 10 million people in the country illegally as of 2 years ago.
I'm all for legal immigration. Work visas. Green cards. But having 11 million uninsured peoples in the US is more than a bit worrying to me in the age of $1300 hospital bills for a sprained ankle and a prescription.

>fuck our white women
Congratulations on being a fucking tool. Leave /pol/ in /pol/, we're on Veeky Forums and if you hadn't noticed by my vernacular I'm hardly sensitive to the topic of racemixing. Personally I have an affinity for darker haired and skinned women, blondes have never made me slobber at the mere sight of them.

>open borders
Nobody is seriously advocating a completely open border for people to just come in and out of. This is a strawman.

>im just going to start spouting shit without sources or material to back it up and conjecture

This isn't an argument and there's nothing to refute.

>more conjecture and muh feels
>letting unchecked immigration
Again this isn't a thing. Illegal immigration is mitigated, criminals are found and removed, and a large deal of illegal immigrants are those who came to the States to work on visas and then never left. They have jobs and they pay into the system.

The fact of the matter is illegal immigration is actually down and the cost of building a wall, manning said wall, and deporting millions of people actually far outweighs the benefits of keeping them and taking their money.