ETH is the grandest scam in crypto

They have done an excellent marketing campaign, I'll give them that. The frenzy is real.

Source?

I think ETH is groundbreaking technology but the people who say it will replace bitcoin sound like someone saying "oil will replace gold!"

ETH is great as fuel for decentralized applications, but it's not something that would make a very good, reliable store of value.

Alot of people who don't really understand the technology, along with autists who don't understand how value works think that because it has more features that must make it a superior store of value.

considering everything is a scam, from the coins to the bronies who run them, to the community that tries to rip each other off as hard as they can, i'll be okay with whatever happens, whether $1MM btc or a giant asteroid reducing this planet to dust. trading cryptocurrencies is like a nigger stabbing you so he can rip the sneakers right off your feet, over and over every 10 minutes.

>unless you take eth through an exploit, your eth is safe
How can my ETH be safe when the developers can just revoke them like The Dao scandal?

>This means they changed the natural progression of the blockchain and nothing is stopping them from doing it again.
They only restored the money that was on a hackers account, which he couldn't withdraw for 30 days minimum. That's literally nothing and ETH was really small back when. If something like that happens now 100% they're not going to do this shit again.

>using ETH source code to develop private blockchains
Not true. Some of them - yes, others make dapps on ethereum pubic blockchain

>not capped, premined and 90M+ coins minted
Not gonna argue with that. That's the only thing I don't like about eth.

>miners are going to mine a shitload, dump it on the market
they're moving to POS, which makes them more interested in holding and accumulating

once eth starts going down its going to burn
there are too many premined coins
too much uncertainty in it's future
too centralized

great people made some money on it, but it isn't going to stick around for long with so many fatal flaws

You're ETH are safe in the hands of the developers, don't worry. You just need to trust them like you trust your bank.

The wonders of decentralization!

>centralized
>ETH team bailed out the devs when they lost $55M due to incompetence. This means they changed the natural progression of the blockchain and nothing is stopping them from doing it again.
lmao what? The decision to revert was decided by a majority of ETH miners. This same thing that can occur on literally any blockchain.

>muh ETH alliance
mfw you didn't actually read anything about EEA objectives, which include interoperability with the public bloclchain

>not capped, premined and 90M+ coins minted
a cap is in the works, not to mention that it becomes literally a non-issue anyway once PoS rolls out

2/10 got me to respond

C O P I N G
O
P
I
N
G

ETC has more practical value than ETH
and even still it's uncertain if it's a practical implementation for a decentralized computing network

are you people actually dumbfucks or is this thread intentional FUD rofl. Devs can't unilaterally make that kind of decision.

reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/4gc85v/my_calculations_on_what_price_vitalik_sold_his/

why would they though?
btc had a hard fork because of an exploit that you're conveniently forgetting

>hackers account

There was never a hacker. The guy didn't attack the DAO, just withdrew money following some broken contract clause the dev team had setup. The dev team couldn't swallow the loss of $55M and they fucked the blockchain.

>it's an anti-ETH thread

Now I've seen everything

Good effort, but lacked conviction. I r8 0.8/8

Also
>centralized

This thread is full of cuckcoiners who bought at ETH and now you're all butthurt because of the recent correction. Buy the dip or hang yourself. I'll be sippin champagne with Vitalik in my moon Lambo in the meantime.

>who bought at ETH
should be "who bought at ATH"

ETH CLASSIC
T
H

C
L
A
S
S
I
C

harsh but fair user

It's useless OP. Ethcucks will only understand why ETH is a shitcoin when they see it's value in dollars tank and never recover. They will always be one step behind. In the meanwhile much better solutions are coming out, especially for the corporate world whose dick ethcucks like sucking so much.
Also lmaoing @ the people saying "muh POS". Sorry to burst your bubble but that's never going to happen, because Vitalik has no idea how to accomplish that without fucking up the eth blockchain.

60 million premine
12 million given to developers
90 million + mined
60% premined claims it's not centralized
but PoS!? that will help out centralization LOL
no solid plan on when to go to PoS/no working PoS designed or being tested

I can keep going

So don't buy any. What's the problem?

>"no solid plan on when to go to PoS/no working PoS designed or being tested"
>mfw you can literally just follow its progress on the ethereum github

People keep claiming it's the next big thing
I want to tell you what I think and present facts of how it's distributed

how's it going what's the timeline?

also how it this good for the network when devs/premined coins dominate the stakes?

Thanks for sharing your opinion user. But it's wrong.

>bond villain

Try Russian meth addict, that seems more on par.

the stats are correct
but the opinion who knows it shocks me eth made it this far

Ether is to be treated as "crypto-fuel", a token whose purpose is to pay for computation, and is not intended to be used as or considered a currency, asset, share or anything else.
-ethereum.org

Stay poor, user. You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

The private blockchains interact through the public Ethereum ledger. Why would all these companies in the EEA reinvent the wheel when they are coordinating to develope the same protocol? That would make no sense, and the recent, organic growth in the price of Ether demonstrates investor confidence, corporate or otherwise.

BTC did a similar roll-back, the other fork died instantly, unlike ETC, because BTC is EVEN MORE centralized than ETH

Companies are building private side-chains, not entirely separate networks like Ripple. There is value is interacting with the public blockchain, there is no value in interacting with the public cripple network

Not an argument. ON NOES ETH MIGHT ONLY 4x IN PRICE WHILE BTC GAINS 50% IN THAT TIME SPAN!!!1

Toyota won't buy up overpriced Ether, which Joe Shmo pumped to 50x with his maxed credit card. They will use a private ecosystem, which has been stated very clearly over and over. Same with XRP and banks.

As far as the main ETH blockchain, maybe Joe Shmo's hoarded 5 Ether will indeed move it today, but in the long term, the devs have to make sure there will be enough Ether for the network to move. The principle idea of ETH has inflation embedded and it's clearly stated on the website. It's not a speculative asset that will get rarer and rarer over time, but just FUEL, that is meant to be burned away for transactions on the blockchain. Which means the price has to be kept down artificially (or the supply up) or the network dies.

> Companies are not getting on the public ETH blockchain and they never intended to.
really?
Can you give me more info on this?

if they follow the example of jp morgan Quorum, then the transactions on the private chain STILL GET VERIFIED ON THE PUBLIC CHAIN just in a form that lets their contents stay private. This is great fud and all but read the whitepapers . Private eth chains aren't bad from what I can tell

Lots of companies involved in the EEA are planning on building their own private blockchains. They have their own method of forming consensus so they don't need POS/POW. Also, privacy reasons.

However, for interacting with customers and other companies there's still a use case for using the actual Ethereum network. Think intranet vs internet.

It's not a FUD.

Ether is not worth 200 bucks, nowhere near it. The network cannot be hardcapped like Bitcoin, especially if they're expecting legitimate corporate traffic. Bitcoin manages to (barely) get away with their shitty blockchain, because the network doesn't see real financial traffic, just people stashing (hoarding) and withdrawing coins as a speculative asset.

If the Ethereum public blockchain saw the corporate traffic of all those companies they are advertising put together, the network would keel over in 1 day, considering how much the fuel is being hoarded and how much of it is available (and for what price). For any kind of acceptable and affordable performance, they need to give an incentive for the hoarders to let go of their assets or simply introduce more Ether to the ecosystem. The last choice is what they have unofficially gone with.

Yes, the idea is that ether will become more valuable as the network becomes more valuable (the value is basically the computability platform, and all of the other tokens and dapps running on it). However, there value will end up stabilizing around how valuable and expensive the dapps are to run, and how much people are willing to pay to run and use dapps. At the current state ether is overvalued since the network isn't that valuable (I don't know of any valuable dapps yet, do you?), but who knows, the network is growing and growing, as we can see with all of these ICOs that are built on top of ethereum... and they cost gas to run. If it reaches critical mass and starts displacing massive amounts of existing infrastructure, the price of gas goes up, BUT when it gets too expensive the less people start building on the ethereum network, then the price should go down. I think its right that they haven't really capped ether yet, since they need to keep the price down so people adopt the platform more to build dapps (which in their vision is what is valuable)

Apart from the ether price, part of me wonders if the ethereum VM is really just oversold and not very useful, and that blockchains are basically just useful as a store of value (bitcoin). Since ether as a tradable token is basically a better version of bitcoin in many ways, and since ether is being used as such, and there aren't any valuable dapps, maybe ethereum should just be a bitcoin replacement. If that's the case, then ethereum's value should be in the token, rather than the network, in which case it should be capped, or at least have some schedule built in (like inflation rate, etc). If dapps prove themselves to be valuable, then the price of ether should come down in the shorter term.

The economics at play here are pretty amazing. Ethereum is so open, that I think the devs may have designed something that's not being used in the way it was meant to be used.

ETC was a great buy for me. It's propping up my other bags so overall I'm still close to where I was 2 days ago.

Most alts are struggling.... iT'll be interesting to see what happens after this

>BUT when it gets too expensive the less people start building on the ethereum network, then the price should go down

There is literally nothing in place to make this happen. All people see is 90M corporate fuel tokens in existence until the rest of eternity, I can get one, I will be rich. Due to the pseudo cap, which lures in more investors, the network is utterly disabled before it ever even got going. As long as Ethereum is hoarded, it will never work. As long as there is a cap (even a fake one) on the amount of Ethereum, people will always hoard. This means the price will keep going up, in the meanwhile crippling the network, even if it's dogshit in practice.

And did I mention, the corporate traffic is not even on the public chain. It will be the shitcoins, dapps and Joe Shmo's exchange transaction that get dicked as a result.

Right, but when the network is crippled people won't want to use it anymore, then people sell ether, price goes down, network becomes cheaper to run and starts performing better. It's a delicate balance of incentives, and I think people are too thick to understand what ether really is at this point. I admit it took me a while.

In the mean time my monthly mining profits have tripled . Literally doing nothing and collecting $2400 a month.

>when the network is crippled people won't want to use it anymore, then people sell ether, price goes down, network becomes cheaper to run and starts performing better

Do you even realize how retarded this sounds? What corporation will run anything on a network that performs on this principle? Oh yeah, they don't even intend to.

Did I mention Ether will still be hoarded even if the network completely stops working completely because muh real life partyhats and muh smart contract revolution?

did you cash out any eth yet? Mind to share screenshots?

You don't realize that eth is the apple of cryptos?

Why do you think they partner with so many reputable brands?

It's to appeal to the average person.
ETH is a good investment, even if you don't like their practices.

Yes, which is why in my post above I said that ethereum may just end up being used as a better bitcoin, which is basically how its being used now since the market is deciding that. That's not the dev's goal though, so they are stuck between market demand and their project goals.

As far as ethereum being a crippled network, any blockchain is fucking expensive to run in terms of money and computing power. That's the tradeoff of blockchain and consensus. You get decentralization and security at the expensive of money, performance, and ease of use.

Sometimes I wonder if bitcoin is the only good use of the blockchain, and the other projects are just trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.

the ethereum technology is appealing to these brands, not the eth. Can you explain to me how the value of eth is vital to the ethereum technology?

Until people recognize what is the point of using a slow-ass blockchain versus running proprietary software on your servers if it doesn't have immutability.

this fucking post is too accurate.the community will fuck itself before half of us can make it to lamboland

Oh my god, you people are so fucking stupid. Yes, this is the model of most sucessful open source companies. So what? How do you think linus makes money on linux when his product is free? How do you think Mozilla makes money when firefox is free? Jesus christ, its like you fucking idiots know nothing about tech business/startups because you are all children.

I don't know why I even bother coming here.

Redpill me on ETC

Same fundamental flaws - Ether the fuel of the network is hoarded and vaulted away by randoms as a speculative asset, making the network slow and expensive.

Even less people are interested in actually using the blockchain. It's also behind ETH in development and the (reddit) community has even more influence over the future of the coin. But overall it's less of a shitcoin and especially with the recent shilling wave, it (the fuel) is still grossly overpriced for what it is - essentially a prototype for what could be useful technology in the future.

here you go

Holy shit, I hate ETH now.

What I'm going to say is pretty technical, so not many people know this.
Running smart contracts costs gas. Gas is not Ether, and it's not a fraction of Ether (gas is not Wei). Ether is used to pay for gas.

Miners charge people Ether based on the gas cost of a contract. The value of ether that is transferred from the smart contract owner to the miner is governed by the laws of supply and demand. If a miner spends X gas (X computational power) to execute a contract, they can ask for Y worth of ether. Note that the value of 1 whole Ether (200$) is completely irrelevant here, because a miner can ask for whatever amount of Ether in USD is a fair price for X computational power.

Example: 1 gas worth of computational power is worth 1$ (numbers simplified for convenience). We have a contract that costs 10 gas to execute. The miner executing the smart contract will ask for 10$ worth of ether. If Ether is currently worth 200$, the miner will ask for 0.05 ether. If ether is worth 5$, the miner will ask for 2 ether.

I hope you now understand that the price of 1 Ether doesn't actually matter that much.

>great people made some money on it, but it isn't going to stick around for long with so many fatal flaws

Cool, are you shorting it?

>There was never a hacker. The guy didn't attack the DAO, just withdrew money following some broken contract clause the dev team had setup. The dev team couldn't swallow the loss of $55M and they fucked the blockchain.

Ok, if you want to play that game

>There was never a bailout. The Ethereum devs did not force a split, just proposed a fork which majority of the miners followed in consensus. The ethereum community swallow the loss of $55M and they forked the blockchain.

See how that works?

>I can keep going

Please keep going.

checked n kekd

>In the meanwhile much better solutions are coming out

What solutions?

...

I actually didn't know that, I mistakenly assumed gas = wei. Thanks for clearing that up, it makes me feel better about ethereum

It doesn't matter how many terms you throw in, the basic principles of a blockchain remain the same.

The less ether available for the userbase, the more the miners will charge for the gas. And expensive gas is already a major problem in the network's infancy. Throwing in another variable does fuckall except make it more complicated for the dumbass investor to follow.

>The less ether available for the userbase, the more the miners will charge for the gas
nigger can you not fucking READ ENGLISH
FUCK

Are people ITT seriously trying to shill ETC?!

Don't fall for these bagholder tricks.

literally obsolete, u gonna get dumped on

On this page you can see how a certain amount of gas can cost different amounts of ether, which affects the transaction confirmation speed. The fast/average/cheap prices are what miners charge based on supply and demand.
ethgasstation.info/calculator.php

>Ether is not worth 200 bucks, nowhere near it.

So are you shorting right now?

You are the definition of headass.

No, because I have no idea when the greater fool realizes it's dogshit.

>price of gas is suddenly expensive
>price of gas hasn't yet adjusted to the new ether price
>gas price and ether price don't have a correlation

Duped again.

I'm sure that the ethereum creators and investors are willing to subsidize the network to grow, right?

this.
shhh, eth holders have to meme eth taht it will surpass bitcoin. There is a lot of money to be made out of the suckers. Can't wait to sell my eth for 1500$

The amount of FUD and shitcoin PnD shills around here is incredible. These fags can all go fuck themselves

Holy fuck, you literally ignored everything I wrote. Just because there's private blockchains, doesn't mean they won't operate with the LARGER AND MUCH MORE SECURE public Ethereum blockchain upon which all other blockchains are standardized and based.

>BTC is EVEN MORE centralized than ETH

Thanks for posting, based user.

I wish these faggots had actually read the White and Yellow papers before spreading fallacies and confusing the public.

Don't worry, in about three years I'll use my ETH to power an autonomous noose-making factory with a smart contract that automatically delivers them to every no-coiners house to they can finally out themselves out of their misery. I will Kek extremely hard as my autonomous drones send me feedback on the live-in hangings, which I will watch from the comfort of my self-driving Lambo.

OP

>ETH is a scam

Me

>6000% return on my initial investment

>have 100 ETH and 100 ETC
Feels pretty good lately.

>he didn't believe ETH would pump anymore
If that was the case he would have sold over 50%. There is nothing wrong with profit taking, $20 coins was probably enough for him to live comfortably for the rest of his life.

>its a scam!

if your interested in becoming rich, dont be this guy

Ok, but you do realise what something is "worth" is decided by the market?

So if you think ETH is not worth $200, please give your estimation of what ETH is worth right now and the logic and mathematics behind this estimation. Thank you

>Companies are not getting on the public ETH blockchain and they never intended to.

Not true at all. Many of the companies publicly stated they would be using the public blockchain alongside a private implementation of Quorum.

Good try though, buddy.

>This means they changed the natural progression of the blockchain and nothing is stopping them from doing it again.

the chance this happens is 0. everyone already knows about the DAO, they wont accept a fork like that again.

>Gas is the internal pricing for running a transaction or contract in Ethereum. At the time of writing before the launch of Frontier it is fixed to 10 Szabo, which is about 1/100,000 of an Ether.

Ether price is literally pegged to gas price

>i-its not ether, it doesn't matter if people only buy Ether to stash it away in hopes it will increase 1000x again

They just parrot shit that Berry Shillbert spouts off all the time. They don't actually keep up with the EEA meetups or announcements.

I'm sure they think Toyota, ING bank, Microsoft, Intel, the national Bank of Canada, Mitsubishi and the San Francisco stock exchange are all in on this little 'scam' too. Don't worry. Their cognitive dissonance knows no bounds.

Private and public ETH blockchains have as much to do with each other as ETC and ETH. Corporations would like to experiment with the private variety of course.

Microsoft and Steam are both all over Linux. Does it mean anything in real life for Linux? Fuck no. Cognitive dissonance is refusing to acknowledge there won't be a usable product out of this blind money throwing.

Did you just ignore what he said entirely? Multiple have already state that they want to participate in the public chain.