Is current society getting infantilized? Did societies of the past experiment periods when their people would become manchildren? Or its just that society is changing towards a new attitude?
I see more people in their 20s and their 30s doing things like playing vidya, watching anime, and complaining about superflous things. This, along with more things, is what I refer to as infantilizing.
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It's the whole Dogma about Hard times create hard men, hard men create good times, good times create soft men, soft men create hard times.
I think it's closer to everyone has become rich.
We don't notice because there aren't medieval peasants to compare ourselves to.
I mean, there are, but most of them are different color and far away from us.
I'm too good for society and the roasties that inhabit it
get a job? pay taxes? raise a family?
hah fat chance
>Did societies of the past experiment periods when their people would become manchildren?
They did. Roman Empire went through a period like this. Augustus tried to avert it by having natural born Romans have more children to no avail.
Nobody care about a 50+ years old guy making model of train or avion and nobody care year before about grow men playing wargame with toy soldier.
What become socially acceptable for an adult to do evolve with time.
>complaining about superflous things
People have always complain about superflous thing, like you think that before today nobody complained that their meal was cold or that the sun is too bright?
Wew, I heard the exact opposite about women.
Short answer: No, because people have irrational behaviors and tastes. They are not meat robots.
Longer answer: If your proof of infantization is grown men playing videogames and watching anime. You would have to ignore generations of hedonistic pasttimes that people engage in. I think your sample size is limited to a very narrow scope of shit you find on the internet and id have to assume your not basing it on shit you find on Veeky Forums otherwise you would be a retard.
Also that 'good times soft men hard times hard men' is basically reactionary ideology.
Huh?
I definitely see this trend, even on myself/my friends and I hate it. I think it has something to do with the oversaturation of media and the hivemind-like structure of the internet.
It sort of reminds me of cliques in highschools (that I only see in movies).
Since your digital input (YouTubers, Websites, etc.) kinda sticks with you since your time as a teenager, you are getting loose from it. It is the sugar for your brain, it made you happy to laugh at shitty "Super Mario X Dragonball" movies on Youtube, it will make you happy ten years later to laugh at the same setup.
And don´t forget the graviation of sites like Veeky Forums. You normally can´t see the age of your opposite in nicknames, profilepics and buzzwords. I think the number of poeple that "grow out" that groups is not as high as the influx of younger ones, so the 23 year old is constantly in conversation and influence of the 16 year olds and their young and dumb thoughts.
It´s affecting you on a subtle level.
OP here:
I think I did not explain myself well. By infantilization I meant people partaking in activities seen as that of little children. That meant watching cartoons, playing videogames, collecting toys, and such.
While I understand that pastimes evolve over time, I find strange that, in this era, we are accepting traditional children activities the same time we abandon the roughness that was characteristic of previous times.
What I wanted to know is that if we are living under an anomally, or its just that society is changing, and the grown men of the future will become different from today's grown men.
Some people have complained that the question sounded reactionary. It was not my intention. While its true that I am a bit of a Romantic, I understand that people change, so I wanted to know if people are changing, or if we are before the decline of our civilization.
>watching cartoons
Originally made for adults
>playing videogames
Same as above
>collecting toys
Children don't have money to collect toys. Perhaps you mean play with toys?
>That meant watching cartoons, playing videogames, collecting toys
None of this is inherently "childish".
Earlier menstruation for example
Yeah, women are developing much earlier. I started at age 13, and that was considered late. My grandma's generation however started at 15 or 16.
However, physical development does not equal being mature. No one is mature as a teenager.
People of the past *was* manchildren. Just not in the way like current ones. Just look at crusaders, that was leaded by literal saint goose. This is the one example, of how autistic were people of past.
Actually women have always been ready for childbirth around 11-14, just our feminist society needs to raise muh age of consent beyond reason
Insert CS Lewis Quote here.
>Cartoons
Not all cartoons are made for the same age group.
>Vidya
Not all vidya are made for the same age group.
>Collecting Toys
People have collected random shit for fucking ever dude.
Only the USA really developed this idea that cartoons are for kids, and it's only goes back 40 years or so.
Now, if you're talking about people using anime (let's not beat around the bush, this is what your newfag ass is talking about) to escape from reality, instead of supplementing it, then yes, that has gotten bigger.
That's because technology has allowed us to escape from our fellow man, contrary opinions, and the world at large better than it ever has before.
Technology is too good and people are not very self aware.
> activities seen as that of little children
The real answer is in the past there was not such idea, as children activity. Children perception was that of a small adults (and adults as big children), so we actually back, to where we started. Idea of infantilization itself born out of the misconception, that human life can be fully divided between child and mature stages.
You don't have to be a feminist to think that having kids before you're at least 28 and have your shit together is stupid as fuck.
Physical maturitity is not maturity? How come? Demand on physical maturity must come from somewhere
also would you be so kind and share with us a picture of your mammae?
Way to deflect the argument
>women are developing much earlier
Not true. Our society artificially raises the socially acceptable age to birth children to some retarded number like 28, that doesn't mean it's healthy.
I mean mental and emotional maturity.
This.
I understand. But where does the demand on physical aspect comes from? Oversexualization?
Well, I don't think 14 year olds are very emotionally or mentally mature.
It's also somewhat exploitative when there is a massive age gap, and more often than not the older person (man or woman) is using the younger.
That's why where I'm from the age of consent is actually 12, but it has to be an age difference of 2 years or under. Then the true age of consent is 16, with the exception of authority figures like teachers, which would also create an unhealthy power dynamic.
What do you mean by 'demand'? I'm really tired and may just be misunderstanding stupidly, but I don't get your question.
>Now, if you're talking about people using anime (let's not beat around the bush, this is what your newfag ass is talking about) to escape from reality, instead of supplementing it, then yes, that has gotten bigger.
>That's because technology has allowed us to escape from our fellow man, contrary opinions, and the world at large better than it ever has before.
>Technology is too good and people are not very self aware.
This is a good reply to my question. What have happened to our times that now its possible to engage in escapism proficiently? Could people from the past escape from reality as effectively as we do now?
Also, why activities like playing videogames, watching anime and collecting plastic figurines are perceived as that of manchildren?
Not that user but your brain doesn't fully finish development until your mid 20s.
Not the person you are greentexting.
It's raised to 28 because that's basically the age when you're supposed to have your shit somewhat together, to have dated enough people to find the person that you can have the strong stable family unit that can raise the fucking thing.
A strong family unit is worth the mild risk of genetic deformity that I'm sure /pol/ has blown way out of proportion. Not to mention we are developing options to rid ourself of these genetic disorders before a fetus is born.
>It's also somewhat exploitative when there is a massive age gap, and more often than not the older person (man or woman) is using the younger.
Life is about power structures. Some positive, some negative. Men desire younger women, and women desire older men for a reason. This is a positive power structure. If you treat your wife like a concubine or something it just makes you a bad person regardless of her age. Nothing about young women, older man is inherently wrong.
Then how come people got married in their teens and produced stable family units?
>we abandon the roughness that was characteristic of previous times.
What roughness? What do you think adults did in previous times?
>or if we are before the decline of our civilization.
How did you go from "adults watch a lot more cartoons now" to "this will directly lead to the decline of civilization"?
If there is a phenomenom of earlier menstruation, there must be a cause for it, since there is no known biological cause (eg contamination of endocrino-disruptors), there must be a social cause, a demand from society.
I mean specifically if there's say, a 13 year old with a 24 year old. Nothing wrong with 18 and 29.
Could be some kind of chemical cause, or a biological one.
Sexualisation may play a part though. I find it pretty disturbing as a 19 year old girl to see 9 year olds in outfits -I- wouldn't wear.
Why?
The thing about your average Dakiholding Rei-worshing Otaku, is that the anime didn't do it to them. It's the fact that in today's modern world, they haven't had that minimum necessity of going outdoors to meet people who like their same shit.
They can just go online and talk with fags on this site, instead of having to blend in during their childhood and early adulthood. They used to at least have to walk to a con.
There is now a replacement for real communication, to satisfy the little obsessions we have.
What makes Veeky Forums so good is that it's the closest the internet has to sitting on a couch with your buds and shooting the shit.
It because somebody called him an idiot while posting a smug anime face and he needed to come on Veeky Forums to intellectualize his retardation instead of sucking it up.
Your right that our society is softer and faggier. Your wrong that its video games, cartoons and toys. The deep cause is wagecucking, technology
and consumerism.
Why what?
I never said it was those things. I said it was technology allowing nerds to escape into, instead of embrace, their interests.
You're mixing me up with the user I was actually mocking.
Why any of it, really. Specifically, why are you uncomfortable with young girls wearing (what would be on older women) sexually provocative clothes?
Oh, my bad.
Because I don't think dressing like a slut is good in anyone, but it certainly shouldn't be encouraged in kids, who more often than not don't get the sexual connotations anyway and may continue to think dressing provocatively is good later in life.
>Technology is too good
Can you go on?
>Anime
An art form that isn't any more infantile than say a film or painting.
What defines dressing like a slut?
Adolf Hitler, supreme leader of one of the worlds then-and-now most advanced and powerful nations, war veteran, you all know him, thought that snow white and the seven dwarves, a cartoon, was one of the greatest movies ever made.
>chemical cause,
Mostly because of that, read about endocrine disruptor, particulary about xenoestrogens.
Well, I saw a young girl, maybe 10, wearing a mini skirt, a crop top that said 'kiss me I'm french' (unsubtle french kissing insinuation) and a choker.
You're on Veeky Forums posting this. You are the manifestation of infantilism.
>is basically reactionary ideology
So?
Besides the wording on the top (which a 10 year old almost certainly doesn't understand the implication of) why does the rest of that indicate a slut?
What's wrong with not wanting to dress revealingly? There's a happy medium between skintight, low cut dresses and a burka, and personally I think that middle ground is more elegant and stylish.
From what I understand, adult engaged in quite violent activities, like duelling to death, beating animals to death, playing games of chance that could end in a fight, going to theater and start throwing rocks at the perfomance if they did not find it of their taste, killing their partner because they cheated them with other, watch people getting publicly executed...
In general, people of the past were exposed to more actual violence, so that made them rough.
As for the second question, I didnt state that that was true. It was a possibility I was asking about. Maybe civilization wont fall because of anime memeposters. Who knows
Showing legs, stomach, etc. It was very revealing. And chokers almost universally are worn by teenaged blow job queens, or at least they were at my school.
> see more people in their 20s and their 30s doing things like playing vidya, watching anime
Becuase those things didn't even exist before
Jesus Christ this
>where was all the otaku vidya nerds of the Roman empire
Gee iunno
10 years old don't buy their clothing, a 10 years old "dressed like a slut" says more about the parents than the girl herself.
I would tend to agree with you, where aesthetics are concerned, but this seems to be more of a moralistic argument.
I confess to not really being familiar with chokers. As for bare skin, I thought it was normal for prepubescent children to not wear very many clothes. That may just be my more rural upbringing talking.
Maybe they were talking about who was the superior waifu, Hellen of Troy or Aphrodite.
> Venus est uxor mea.
Not many clothes, sure. But they should look like they were designed for children, not for teenagers.
Pretty sure the guys who followed Socrates and spend their day listening to him instead of working were saw as the neet of their time.
Well, obviously. But that doesn't mean I don't find it uncomfortable. I don't blame the kids.
What's the difference, then? What should the difference be?
...
go outside and interact with other people more you dumb freak
>From what I understand
Where did you get this understanding from?
>we're all going to the giant icecream cone in the sky
>they haven't figured out what happens when your eyes get bigger than your belly
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Clothing that you can also find in a teenaged shop, vs stuff that's just for kids.
If video games existed, the Hindenburg and General Staff would have played them and realized that the Schleiffen plan was shit.
That doesn't clarify at all. Didn't you say earlier that children are wearing clothes that look like teenagers'? That means the childrensstores are selling them.
"Western" Humans can't survive without a grocery store.
We are incomplete
We must repeat
I'm just worried of what we will start doing when there isn't anything left to stock those shelfs, fucked up shit I'm sure.
I wish I wasn't so sure.
>imblayeeng German staff did not have access to wargames since at least Franco-Prussian war
>can't survive without a grocery store
Speak for yourself you urban negroid
>I see more people in their 20s and their 30s doing things like playing vidya, watching anime
In the past people would have read fiction, or watched theatre plays, opera, ballet, etc.
Especially the aristocracy took pride in not having work and being able to enjoy the beautiful things to the fullest. An aristocrat was proud of being a layman in many things, never having to achieve 'professional' mastery like the bourgeois who had to make a living somehow.
The Schlieffen plan itself wasn't too bad. The problem is that it wasn't fully implemented as Schlieffen had envisioned and the execution was lacking since the Bavarians didn't read the manual, or possibly didn't want to follow it because it would have involved them being on the retreat all the time while the Prussians seize all the glory.
You're gonna have to explain why that's a bad thing.
not everyone needs to be an engineer or a creative writer
you dont pay enough money for simple jobs
the result is seen
fuck capitalism, you brought this on yourself
The basic Schlieffen plan is the best chance Germany had of winning WW1. Endless tacticians have attempted to come up with a better idea for 1914 and have failed miserably.
Wanting to disappear into anime isn't that strange. This kind of phenomenon has been around as long as there has been nerds to consume media.
>implying the Romans weren't bitching about societal decay (read: WHY IS EVERYONE NOT ACTING EXACTLY LIKE CINCINNATUS DID) every single generation since the middle republic until the end
Rose tinted glasses know no epoch.
>Could people from the past escape from reality as effectively as we do now?
Alcohol has been readily available to even the lowest stratas since fucking forever, how's that even a question?
Tits or gtfo
(sorry)
1 I'm not speaking for myself, I've been self sufficient for years
2 I've never lived in a town let alone a city
3 rual communities are fucked just as bad.
>I see more people in their 20s and their 30s doing things like playing vidya, watching anime, and complaining about superflous things
its always been the case, but more people that age were married and raising kids in the past, so they seem more mature then they probably were
This one might actually be a somewhat reasonabl hypothesis.
The internet, before it's actual success in the late 2000s was more inhabited by what we used to call nerds. Infantile adults. With the increasing popularity and importance of the internet you have massiv amounts of "normal" people flooding the internet and being exposed to this nerd culture. This leads to 1. the normalization of nerd culture and the nerdification of the "normal" culture.
and if you want to put your tinfoil hats on, there's also this theory:
The market wants an infantile society.
Infants are among the most impulsive buyers you can have, they don't weigh the quality much, they don't really look into necessity or even price, they just want it because it looks pretty.
The only downside of this is, that infants don't have the economic capacity themselves but are reliant on adults, who put value on these things, which make the products more expensive to buy and produce.
Now, the perfect mix for the market is an infant with economic sovereignty and fiscal strength. So you either have the unfavourable child labour, or you'll just have adults have the mindset of children. They will buy all the shiny things without hesitation and they will most likely buy it for their offspring as well, making it much more profitable for the market. Thus, adult culture was marketed to become much more childish and we can start to see these effects today.
>stop having fun guys
Being adult does't require you to be miserable.
If I'm being realistic, I'd take being safe and comfy over being pushed toy "true potential" in some kind of war or apocalyptic scenario. If I want to challenge myself I can go primitive camping /out/ in the deep woods or train for a triathlon or something. I like being able to go home to my comfy warm house with all its comforts and safety.
If you think about it, there is no right context for a pushing your potential because any actualization depends on exact situation and with a realization of one possibility, another is lost.
I look forward to Western pop culture being financially dependent on character goods, references, and obsession.
Just like glorious nihongo.
Not sure if this nigga be trolling or ignorant
This is Veeky Forums, so both is safe bet here.
video games and anime didn't exist for previous generations, how in the hell are you using them as a context for comparison?
are you like super fucking dumb?
Pfffffffttttttt hahahaha ohhh wow he's serious, hold up, are you telling me you thought Spengler was anything more than a pseudo-historian hack?
Seriously though, man the fuck up and read some Thucydides.
>I see more people in their 20s and their 30s doing things like fucking the servant boy, being fucked by the servant boy, and complaining about superflous things. This, along with more things, is what I refer to as infantilizing.
it's cyclic... people get used to society, people get lazy, society crumbles, new society is built.
Based Dolfy having good taste in film.
Anime is for adult. I know this because I'm a otaku, and I watched how much animes about "Gore", "Ecchi", "Hentai", Etc. I think, anime is a good hobby. Alright, watch anime is not a normal thing out of Japan. But if you watch an adult anime (Example, a gore anime or a ero-guro manga). You probably think, this shit is not for children, and this is absolutly true.
It depends
The trend is pointing towards more people checking out of society and moving towards self imposed isolation.
Vidya isnt an indictor of infantilization, by that logic chess and board games would also fit that bill and they obviously do not.
Anime isnt either. Its a symptom of disguest with ones own culture. The rise of anime can be attributed to the liberal dogma of "whites have no culture" which has screwed up many a young adults.
Its showing a trend of creating easily militarized, anti establishment, and easily subverted people. Its not infantilism its a trainwreck of divide and conquer that will probably end up with a giant increase in white violent crime and probably end up with a terrorist organization if the control structures in place (nsa and the like) collapse. Which is also possible under new administration.
The man child symptoms come when they transition from healthy to militarized, sadly many people stay in transition for years.
Bump
It's called liberalism. It will be extinct in a few years.