I read somewhere that the Romans thought that being gay was more manly than eating pussy. Is that true?

I read somewhere that the Romans thought that being gay was more manly than eating pussy. Is that true?

Roman socio-cultural values general

Yup, and so was having a small penis.

...

>being gay was more manly than eating pussy
It still is.

The Romans did TONS of things that somehow legitimize postmodern political agendas.

They were right about cuckilingus at least

But gays tend to be effeminate by nature. The Romans having no concept of gay and straight doesn't really make sense.. No straight man would fuck another man for the hell of it.

I hear the Greeks loved this kind of thing as well. Its all very odd

>being gay was more manly than eating pussy

Are you trying to imply they were wrong about this

Homosexuality wasn't an identity back then. Sodomy was looked down on for the catcher, not the pitcher. The person in the dominant role is considered fine. A man in the feminine role is shameful.

But in roman culture oral sex was particularly looked down upon. The mouth was an important part of Roman culture and to sully it with genitalia was absolutely haram.

>gays tend to be effeminate by nature

There's a difference between identifying with modern homosexual identity and culture and ancient dudes fucking guys because they viewed penetration is masculine

the benchmark of sexuality today is who you're doing it to

the benchmark of sexuality in the past was what you were doing

>being gay
Not a thing.
The romans thought fucking arses was neither manly nor unmanly. They thought being fucked in the arse made you a bitch.
They thought using your mouth for sex was the peak of degeneracy. A woman sucking dicks is just as bad as a man eating pussy, it wasn't a manliness thing.

>No straight man would fuck another man for the hell of it.

They would when ancient boys looked like this.

Really, its a matter of domination. Fucking a guy is awesome because you're treating him like a woman, a man being fucked is awful because he's making himself woman-like.

Cunnilingus is awful because its a man submitting to a woman, that's the worst thing you can possibly do. You're not proving anything like bending over and fucking another guy would do. Really, its just a matter of misogyny.

Was there really more fags around in Antiquity though? I mean gay people are like 2% of the population today. Why would it be different then?

>I mean gay people are like 2% of the population today. Why would it be different then?

because it hasn't been socially acceptable since the rise of christianity, so it's been relatively phased out of western culture and marginalised to the point where it's now considered an oppressed minority

Lowering yourself down to a women's level would be less manly than another man overpowering you.

But sexual orientation isn't cultural. Only it's acceptance is.

Is the 2% number supposed to be exclusive fags or fags+bisexuals? Because social acceptance would be an extremely big factor in deciding which sex a bisexual is gonna fuck and admit to like fucking.

No, boys didn't look anything like that in ancient Rome

>But sexual orientation isn't cultural
Yes it is

>I mean gay people are like 2% of the population today
That's either bullshit or gays are massively overrepresented on the internet

All "oppressed" are massively overrepresented on free discussion platforms, that's to be expected.

To understand Roman sexuality, it helps to understand that they cared about roles, not gender.

Were you having somebody's dick put in you? Then you're a bitch.

Did you have your dick in somebody else? Then you're an alpha.

It was a very base, animalistic, opportunistic view of sexuality that we lost with centuries of direction from the church.

Gays aren't effeminate by nature, only the effeminate by nature ones. There are plenty of manly gays or "bears" walking around, you just don't notice them.

Eating pussy was viewed as a bit of a titillating quirk. More along the lines of "Ohhhh, you're into THAT?" kind of like having a foot fetish would be viewed today. A bit weird but mostly harmless.

That one /pol/ or Veeky Forums copypasta that goes around claiming the Romans thought eating pussy was the most effeminate thing you could do really infuriates me, because there's no historiography to support it and plenty to support just the opposite.

Even in this thread I can see people saying the Romans thought eating pussy was "awful" because it made men submissive to women.

That is a massive fucking misunderstanding of Roman sexual values and it boils my blood to see you people parroting it.

I didn't get a boner writing my Masters thesis on the evolution of Roman sexual attitudes just to see you guys spout misconceptions.

Continued

Yeah see this is what I'm talking about
This entire post is complete bullshit from start to finish and I get so pissed off seeing it spread around.

>gays are massively overrepresented on the internet

You're new here, aren't you? We pander to like 5% of the worlds population with oppression points.

Post your Master's Thesis, then. Or link it, or whatever. Has Veeky Forums got .pdf support like Veeky Forums yet?

Daily reminder that this is what boys in antiquity looked like

I'm gonna go out on a limb and associate this with modern day prison.

Weren't ALL Roman boys trained to be warriors? They were exclusively with boys/men and constantly trying to prove dominance/

"I stuck my dick in that faggots mouth". "I fucked that faggot in the ass".

Truly the noblest of people.

I think that is bullshit. Lots of politicians made fun of each other by calling them fags. It is bit hard to pull it to our days standard. Some emperors had boy lovers and it was widely accepted to have homo stuff. However you were also expected to have wife and kids.

Being fag in military means crucifixion. Greeks on other hand were full homo. The Sacred Band of Thebes is a good example.

WOAH LOOK AT DEM CITATIONS
>gay romans
>not gay ostrogoths

>greek boy thread

i thought it didn't matter whether it was cunnilingus or fellatio, Romans didn't think highly of oral sex because the mouth was a sacred organ of speech.

furthermore they were ferociously conservative about the male role as a father and head of a home and family.

Fucking a boy in the ass is much more masculine than eating pussy. Nothing "gay" (a modern idea) about it.

If a man would lower himself to such a bitch role, there's no doubt he would be just as happy with a cock in his ass or mouth desu.

>But gays tend to be effeminate by nature.
No they don't. Being naturally effeminate has fuck all to do with sexual orientation, there are pretty boys who are the straightest studbros and manly, burly, hairy dudes who could suck dick all day long.
Identity mumbo jumbo aside, the Romans' and the Greeks' concept of sex was simply "I stick pee pee in person I find hot and it feels good".

So you were conditioned by your culture to be straight and you accept that you are able to, under the right circumstances, start gobbling dem cocks up and like it.
Got it.

> t. unmasculine twentysomething who eats pussy

>Lowering yourself down to a women's level

Not what it's about. Fellatio was just as bad.

Is this a covert Sopranos thread?

Post your thesis.

hahah damn, totally the vibe i got too.
( i just watched the episode where jr didn't want anyone else to find out eat ate pussy.)
WE WUZ

Post thesis

It was more a sign of respect, so lets say we got back from a battle or some shit, if you did really good i would fuck you.

>gays are massively overrepresented on the internet

Welcome to 2017, amigo.