Celts and Historical Revisionism

Is there any ancient European culture more over-romanticized and over-sentimentalized than the insular Celts?

You see this a lot in many circles. Irish and Scottish Nationalists (which would make sense), Plastic Paddies in America (especially in regions with a high Celtic population such as Central Appalachia or parts of New England), and those neopagan New Age types.

But aside from inventing pants and being really good at metallurgy, is there anything worth romanticizing about the Ancient Celts? I'm mainly referring to the insular Celts of Britain and Ireland.

They were headhunters and primitive tribals.

>but muh Irish saved civilization

That was post-Romanization and Christianization. I'm talking The Wicker Man type of Celts, not The Quiet Man type of Celts. And do note that I am of primarily Celtic descent, mostly a mix of both Irish and Scots-Irish (Ulster Scots to you Britfags), so it's not a /pol/ thing. So, discuss this amongst yourselves.

Pic related

>hey were headhunters
Yes

>and primitive tribals.
No

Don't forget the fact that they were the last European peoples to practice human sacrifice and they practiced it to a far greater extent than the Greeks, Romans, or Germanic peoples.

Pic related

Who the fuck romanticises ancient Celts? Nobody does this apart from teenage neopagans.

I'm pretty sure Baltic people were the last to practice human sacrifice, and Slavic and Germanic peoples were still doing it when all the Celts were Christian.

You've never lived in an area with a heavy Irish or Scots-Irish diaspora, such as a good chunk of New England (Eastern and Southern Massachusetts especially) or Central Appalachia (Southwestern Virginia/Eastern Kentucky/most of West Virginia)

Fuckin' Southies, Hillbillies, and Plastic Paddies in general tend to over-romanticize the Celts, both the ancient feral pagan Celts and the post-Christianization era.

They also like to demonize the Greeks and Romans, despite Western culture having more surviving Greco-Roman influence than the low culture of a bunch of headhunting green-eyed savages.

You may be right about the Slavic peoples, as very little is known about Slavic paganism.

>You've never lived in an area with a heavy Irish or Scots-Irish diaspora
I live in Ireland itself, but I've never seen anyone romanticise pre-Christian Celts in my life.

That is true nowadays, but back in the day (90's and early-to-mid 2000's), you saw Celtic Romanticism everywhere. Not just among the teenage neopagans and the Plastic Paddies.

That's because Ireland has a strong Catholic influence and they tend to focus more on their post-Romanization/post-Christianization period of history (which was pretty cool, to be honest)

Also, the average Irish person is generally better educated and informed than the average American.

Modern Celtic Romanticism (especially of the Ancient Celts) is largely an American phenomenon.

Yeah, the stuff the OP is talking about is an American phenomenon, especially in the Neopagan and New Age communities.

Of course, it's kind of dated, nowadays the Norse are the pagan culture to romanticize and fetishize. It's been like that since at least 2012.

Honestly, complaining about neo-Celtic Romanticism in 2017 is rather pointless.

(I suspect that Skyrim and History Channel's Vikings show may have something to do with the surge in Norseaboos)

I see, thanks for clearing that up

have a woman holding an irish shield for your trouble

Nice

Plastic Paddies ruin everything

Irishfag here. Modern Irish archaeologists don't even like to use the term Celt anymore, since it has so many nationalistic and generally inaccurate connotations and tend to ignore 'Celtic' continuity from the earlier Bronze Age. Personally I think they've gone overboard in abandoning the term entirely.

But there are a lot of reasons to find 'Celtic' Britain and Ireland interesting (not to mention earlier Bronze Age and Neolithic cultures). For example, they had brilliant art (especially in Britain), they built some massive structures like Irish ringforts, English hillforts and Scottish Brochs, and they even built wooden roads which are sometimes still preserved today.

All in all it's not exactly civilization, but it's much more than you'd expect for a bunch of primitive tribal cultures.

That said, later periods are much more interesting as far I'm concerned.

>primitive tribals

No they weren't. Their metal-working was of the highest quality, and even the Romans held them to be expert craftsmen. It takes a good deal of sophistication to develop good metallurgy: it points to the existence of developed trade networks and urban centers.

>m-muh child sacrifice

You really believe the Roman propaganda? You might as well believe Nero burned down Rome and played a violin-analogue while he was at it.

It was very close to becoming a civilisation imo, not as close as the continental "Celts" were but certainly much closer than the Germanics were at the time. On the continent, there were the Oppidia, which would surely have grown into cities, and even in Britain there were the likes of the Atrebates whose great tribal capital at Calleva was civilising even before the Romans arrived, but who enthusiastically embraced urban living afterwards.

It's OK OP. We can help you. Just show us on the dolly where the bad Celt touched you.

Yiff in Hell, furfag

This worthless yiffbag probably isn't even Irish or Scottish, or even Welsh.

He's probably some American Plastic Paddy

Oh, I'm sorry, did that pic trigger you?

>It takes a good deal of sophistication to develop good metallurgy: it points to the existence of developed trade networks and urban centers.
No it absolutely doesn't. Even the simplest African tribes had advanced metallurgy, some of them even created steel, without any influence from more advanced cultures, without significant trade and certainly without urban centers. Civilizations leave a shit load of evidence, even the ones that built entirely in wood. There's no evidence that the insular Celts had anything close to cities or states.

Also are you Iranian by any chance?

This

Plastic Paddies need to get over themselves and just admit the Romans were better.

yes they do. Ancient Celts are like, the magical native Americans of Europe.

>Also are you Iranian by any chance?
Why do you ask him this? Curious as to why.

>primitive tribals

by what measure? Ireland had a high kingship. And an army organised/equipped enough to repel the Vikings in the 10th century.

I know Anglo propaganda loves to paint all Irish/celts as somehow inferior to Germanics but didn't the Romans consider Germans barbarians too?

There used to be an Iranian leopard furry who posted on /int/ years ago and was a kind of mini meme for a while.

>didn't the Romans consider Germans barbarians too?
They did. And funnily enough, unlike the Celts, they were actually seen as primitive .

Typical vitriolic projection onto people of celtic descent. It is perfectly fine for irish descendad Americans to indulge in their ancestral culture, and no it does not mean they MUST have contempt for other tribes. I am American both my parents have irish surnames and i play irish trad music, go to sessions, etc. I know I am culturally American, and i don't wish to over romantacize Irish history. I greatly admire England and any tribe so long as they respect my right to appreciate the culture of my forbears.

Any Irish person would laugh at you.

t. an actual Irish person.

Nice. What instrument do you play? I learnt the accordion growing up.

Ireland values its diaspora. It's not like the famine emigrants chose to leave and it's nice they kept the culture alive. Plenty of other ethnicities do the same.

Met actual irish people and got on well with them. People are individuals and not every irish American or irish person will behave the same.

Low and high whistle, and the side blown irish flute.

Irish people by and large hate plastic paddies with a passion and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise, we might feign a smile or two when you tell us your great great grand-uncle was from Donegal but inside we're laughing and just waiting for you to buy another drink.

Ok, i don't travel into Ireland and talk about my irish ancestry. Both my grandparents on my mother's side came from inchagoill in oughterard. They were kineavys and were among the last families to live on the island. I never brought up my heritage to irish people unless they ask, and yeah i have red hair and green eyes. You probably regard blacks living in Ireland as irish. opinion discarded.

Yes I regard people who live in Ireland for extended periods of time as Irish. Shocker.

Why am I not surprised that the "celtic" fetishist plastic paddy in the thread is also a racist?

Lol you're a fool if you think someone who has ancestral ties to Ireland going back for thousands of years is less irish than some 100% pure sub saharan african who was born in ireland. I fundamentally disagree with that idea, and i don't care what flavor of buzzword you wish to ascribe to it.

I'm Irish though, not American.

I don't give a fuck about ancestry m8. You're some ignorant American who doesn't know shit about what it's actually like to live in Ireland. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to spot you lot versus Americans who actually live here and understand what our culture is really like. It's nothing like your fantasy m8.

It was directed at the American

Cool, but your idea of a black being more irish than an ethnically pure irish American with a last name like O'Donnell is irrational. If that is the case you are a fool. A korean person may live in japan for several generations, speak Japanese, and accept all cultural norms of Japanese society. They will still be regarded as outsiders. There are irish people born and raised in Ireland who disagree with your point of view, and your attempt to vilify those with an opposing world view is sad.

>I don't give a fuck about ancestry

Why? It's important. If someone is Gaelic they're Gaelic. If they have an Irish surname they're part Irish- regardless if they're born in America. (I'm not the American btw).

I'm not vilifying you but seriously if you define yourself by who your grandparents were you're probably a pretty fucking dull person

>ignorant

Nice projection. You don't have an argument so you resort to ad hominem responses. In short, you argue like a woman.

Also if someone lives in Ireland to me they're 1000x more Irish than someone who's never even set foot here. You don't seem to have even the slightest inkling about what our country is like. No one gives a fuck about your "tribe" dude.

Why is it important?

He is fucking ignorant, he was talking about his "celtic" identity and his fucking "tribe" and shit. This is not Irish culture.

>If a man lives in a stable that makes him a horse
rly make u think

So according to you Fionnbharr Ó Diomasaigh from Boston who speaks Irish with his family, whose parents came from the Donegal Gaeltacht, and who teaches Irish Studies modules at his local community college is less Irish than Ahmed Mohammed, a recent immigrate who lives in a povertous north Dublin slum

Hmmmm really makes you think

And for the record I think that dude going on about "tribes" and shit sounded like a gigantic retard but I think there's more to being Irish than just living here

Because they're still kin of the same ethnic group/tribe i.e Gaels. I have more in common genetically with a person with an Irish surname in Australia or America than say, I would with an African or Indian born in the same city.

Learn civic vs ethnic nationalism

>tribes aren't Irish culture

KEK wew you sure about that? Literally all Irish names derive from heads of tribes it's completely Irish culture.

Yeah i only play your traditional music, study your language, and share my genetics with you. Definitely not as irish as a Chinese person who lives in Ireland. Might as well abolish borders. You are actually cancer to Ireland and i can say that without ever having stepped foot in your country. Have fun destroying everything your ancestors fought for.

Literally just your opinion m8s, I have mine.

I'd take Achmed over the Fionnbharr cunt any day.

Except literally no one here even thinks about this shit, it's just you fucking NEETs sitting on /pol/ and the odd crazy person in Identity Ireland or whatever.

What is retarded about caring about your ancestral culture. That doesn't mean i deludedly think i am more irish than American. Simply i am ethnically irish and culturally American. Not retarded, but common sense.

Yeah and Achmed will take your sister. Enjoy becoming Rotherham 2.0

>Crazy person
>identity Ireland
>populism is good
>/pol/

Not an argument.

I know y'all are pretty fond of fucking your sisters across the pond but don't you think it's a bit odd that you guys always jump straight to this kind of thinking. Really makes you think.

Lol what are you even mad about? I'm just stating facts. Would you get mad at an American Jew who identifies with other Jews outside of America, say in Europe? Same thing. Ethnicity is ethnicity.

>Identity Ireland is bad

Why?

I'd consider you a traitor then

Because I think taking extreme pride in your ethnicity is something only fucking dummies do. Everyone I've ever come across who does this is a fucking boring person who uses it to cover-up how completely uninteresting they are.

This. I went to a school with Filipinos, Poles and Russians who acted and spoke like everyone else, learned Irish, had mostly Irish friends, etc. They were all more 'Irish' than some American twat whose impression of Ireland is just trad music and dimly lit pubs, and I don't really care what his last name is.

>Play bach on piano
>be german
>boring

No you're just an idiot.

Yes, the fact that you are German is in itself pretty uninteresting. Sorry to burst your bubble m8.

You sound like you've been brainwashed at a Soviet gulag. Absolutely nothing wrong with having pride in your ethnicity it's what you owe your country too. All the wars fought on Ireland's behalf throughout it's history. Hundreds and hundreds of years.

Commie-tier

You must be a hit at parties my dude

I heard the majority of Pagan European tribes bred with their cousins before Catholicism happened.

The Greeks. Especially the fucking Spartans.

>t. 18 yr old

>People who have different opinions to me are communists! And probably teenagers too! Hell yeah libtards BTFO!

Really makes you think.

I said that because you made the party comment not your opinions. You assumed alot here

I have literally never seen "Celtic" identity invoked outside of Veeky Forums except by Plastic Paddies and Identity Ireland types.

What does "Identity Ireland" type even mean? You mean other Irish people? Is it the same as "UKIP" type or "Trump" type? Are you an "Antifa" type?

k

I mean people who look and act like the kind of autists I generally imagine make up Identity Ireland.

Still don't understand what that "type" is? Normal people who are proud of their country and want to preserve it? How subversive.

Socially inept creeps who use their supposed pride as a smokescreen for their insecurity. Have yet to meet anyone who's bucked this trend.

Underrated Seamus. Good man. One nation one people one tribe.

So a caricature that you dislike? Nice you are truly a champion of rarional thinking, twat.

Why is there an ocean between England and Scotland?

To you maybe.

Projection. You're a fool as i stated earlier. If you think being interesting at parties is a barometer for human success i pity you. Another cancerous nation destroying "European"

...

Just a trend friend not a rule ;-)

>that potato user rekking plastic amerifats ITT

Hard kek and enjoyment.

>you're not really Irish!!

It's funny that you fags think your shitty little island is important enough to /int/ style shitpost about

He was pointing out how empty your claims on Irish identity are. Now you act buttblasted and call them insignificant when they don't fees your delusions. And yes Ireland is largely insignificant but I don't think they give a flying fuck. Fuck off plastic faggot.

This is a load of shit considering the OP gave Irish and Scottish as an example of people who do this.

>implying I'm a part of your subhuman ethnic group
>implying a diaspora has no link to its mother country

Can you just kill yourself please?

>b-but Americans make me insecure

My only regret is that any of your ilk survived the blessed famine

As I said earlier I've literally never seen any Irish person outside of Veeky Forums and our laughable anti-immigrant party do this.

I'm not Irish you cretin.

Veeky Forums as heck

oh you're just a fag who denies the existence of diaspora then.

The American diaspora is about as removed from the reality of being Irish as you can get while somehow still claiming to be Irish.

I'm 1/4 German. Even have a German name. I don't speak it and even if I did I would not claim to be because of muh Teutonic heritage because I'm not a lame fag who plays identity politics and I'm not a LARP autist.

Why don't we just genocide all LARPers and muh identity fags?

Omg a self aware American, I thought they hade gone extinct!

Eastyouro volksdeutsche actually

Doesn't mean they are not ethnically irish genetically.

Not an argument.

Why does identifying with your own country and not appropriating someone else's national identity hurt you so? America has a wealth of culture and history. Can't you see why it galls us when you bastardise all our cultural relics because you're insecure about your real nationality?