How did the Ashanti become so advanced compared to its west african neighbors.
Their government was quite complex
>The Ashanti government was built upon a sophisticated bureaucracy in Kumasi, with separate ministries to handle the state's affairs. Of particular note was Ashanti's Foreign Office based in Kumasi; despite its small size, it allowed the state to pursue complex negotiations with foreign powers. The Office was divided into departments to handle relations separately with the British, French, Dutch, and Arabs. Scholars of Ashanti history, such as Larry Yarak and Ivor Wilkes, disagree over the power of this sophisticated bureaucracy in comparison to the Asantahene, but agree that it was a sign of a highly developed government with a complex system of checks and balances.
They also seemed to be good at Architecture. This is how the kings palace was described
>An immense building of a variety of oblong courts and regular squares entablatures exuberantly adorned with bold fan and trellis work of Egyptian character. They have a suit of rooms over them, with small windows of wooden lattice, of intricate but regular carved work, and some have frames cased with thin gold. The squares have a large apartment on each side, open in front, with two supporting pillars, which break the view and give it all the appearance of the proscenium or front of the stage of the older Italian theaters. They are lofty and regular, and the cornices of a very bold cane-work in alto relievo. A drop-curtain of curiously plaited cane is suspended in front, and in each we observed chairs and stools embossed with gold, and beds of silk, with scattered regalia.
Was this normal in the area and it just seems complex because this Empire was archived well by European sources? Or was this some very advanced state for the area. Because to me it seems to be much more advanced than I imagined most West African nations.
You are not allowed talk about these kinds of topics on Veeky Forums, but I'll try anyway.
That image isn't an Ashanti palace, it's a European-built structure called the Aban which the Ashanti used as a kind of royal storehouse. Pic related is (the ruins of) an actual Ashanti palace.
>Was this normal in the area and it just seems complex because this Empire was archived well by European sources? Or was this some very advanced state for the area. Because to me it seems to be much more advanced than I imagined most West African nations. West Africa and the Guinea Coast had a mix of complex states and smaller 'tribal' polities. Ashanti wasn't more 'advanced' than other complex states like Benin or the Yoruba cities, but it was a lot more complex than its neighbours.
Jonathan Bell
>You are not allowed talk about these kinds of topics on Veeky Forums, but I'll try anyway.
Really. How come? It seems fine to discuss certain civilizations in an area that seem interesting.
>That image isn't an Ashanti palace, it's a European-built structure called the Aban which the Ashanti used as a kind of royal storehouse. Pic related is (the ruins of) an actual Ashanti palace.
Ah I see I thought it looked to European
Still pretty interesting designs on the native structures though
>West Africa and the Guinea Coast had a mix of complex states and smaller 'tribal' polities. Ashanti wasn't more 'advanced' than other complex states like Benin or the Yoruba cities, but it was a lot more complex than its neighbours.
I know about the benin empire and ghana and such. I just found the description of the government and military so fascinating. They could hold their own with the british for a while and adopted guns early on.
Joseph Wood
They got rich from selling their fellow Africans to Europeans.
Noah Wright
Once did a paper on British Imperialism in Afrcia, and was astounded by how the Ashanti managed to push the Brits back 2 times. They do seem like one of the more interesting African civilizations.
Dominic Perez
>Really. How come? Triggers Stormfags. Look at the thread about Yoruba sculpture.
>Still pretty interesting designs on the native structures though Yeah, it's too bad hardly any of this stuff survives. Same deal in places like Cameroon and Nigeria; colonial photos show some beautiful buildings which have almost completely disappeared today.
Parker Ross
They also practiced routine human sacrifice and went to war over a magic stool. It's best to look at these things like you'd look at the Vikings or Mongols; appreciate that they're interesting cultures but don't idealize them like they were some kind of noble savages.
Juan Rogers
Yeah, even other Europeans respected them militarily. The Dutch even hired them out as mercenaries in the East Indies during the 19th century.
Isaac Jenkins
Yeah it seems they were quite adept militarily.
>The Ashanti army was described as a fiercely organized one whose king could "bring 200,000 men into the field and whose warriors were evidently not cowed by Snider rifles and 7-pounder guns" While actual forces deployed in the field were less than potential strength, tens of thousands of soldiers were usually available to serve the needs of the empire. Mobilization depended on small cadres of regulars, who guided and directed levees and contingents called up from provincial governors. Organization was structured around an advance guard, main body, rear guard and two right and left wing flanking elements. This provided flexibility in the forest country the Ashanti armies typically operated in. The approach to the battlefield was typically via converging columns, and tactics included ambushes and extensive maneuvers on the wings. Unique among African armies, the Ashanti deployed medical units to support their fighters. This force was to expand the empire substantially and continually for over a century, and defeated the British in several encounters.
>Yeah, it's too bad hardly any of this stuff survives. Same deal in places like Cameroon and Nigeria; colonial photos show some beautiful buildings which have almost completely disappeared today.
Same in Benin. I'd love to see what that wall at its height looked like in a picture of video. But at least we have good drawings to examine
Colton Bailey
Benin's wall is mostly just a meme. I keep hearing about it everywhere, but it's basically just a myth which grew up around the actual earthen embankments and ditches which cover the countryside around Benin. These are reportedly longer than the Great Wall of China overall, but they're just embankments, not actual walls. Early reports of Benin do mention a city wall, but it only covered one side, since the other side of the city was protected by a swamp. Later it was expanded to surround the whole city, but this was just a regular earthen wall, nothing special. You can see the palace's wall in pic related.
>But at least we have good drawings to examine If you mean that 17th century Dutch drawing, it's not very accurate and highly idealized.
I do find Benin interesting, but I think it's greatness tends to be exaggerated, along with other West African civilizations.
Austin Parker
Also a map of the embankments.
David Gray
>If you mean that 17th century Dutch drawing, it's not very accurate and highly idealized.
How do you know that?
The city aside from the wall itself looked pretty neat. Unless that was exaggerated but Idk why they would do that
James Robinson
>but I think it's greatness tends to be exaggerated, along with other West African civilizations.
Except that most people believe that all West Africans were hunter-gatherers whose sole accomplishment was the loin cloth or perhaps, among the most intelligent, stone spears.
William Davis
It was drawn by a geographer who hadn't actually seen the city himself, but worked off of second hand sources. There are a lot of obvious inaccuracies, like mountains in the background that don't exist, the king wearing what looks like fur, and the shape of the spires with the birds on them (they looked more like pic related, and there weren't so many of them), plus the city in the background looks very European.
The picture does give an idea of how impressive and orderly Europeans found the city, but it shouldn't be treated as a first hand impression.
Parker Miller
Well yeah, but I mean most of what I see on the internet and popular media is either one extreme or the other. It's either dumb niggers who can't build more than a mud hut, or brilliant civilizations on par with anything in contemporary Europe or Asia.
West Africa is interesting in its own right, there were incredible works of art, some pretty impressive architecture, highly organized states and some technological feats like innovative forms of metallurgy, but it was no paradise and not as developed as places like Eurasia or Mesoamerica. West African civilization was fairly young overall and didn't have much time to develop, plus it was held back by low population density (due to endemic disease) and the trans-Saharan and then trans-Atlantic slave trades. Sorry if I sound overly negative, but I just see exaggeration too often (of course on Veeky Forums it tends to be the other side that's worse, but that's obvious).
Joshua Phillips
Europeans and Arabs taught West Africans a lot, we can't disregard that.
Cameron Sanchez
Fun fact the Ndyuka and Jamaican Maroons are the only two Maroon communities to create and maintain national and internationally recognized treaties; both are predominately Ashanti in ancestry
Kayden Scott
Arabs barely had shit to do with West Africans, Europeans merely added to native societal institutions
David Lopez
In the case of this thread, not really. Arabs/Berbers transmitted a lot to the Muslim parts of West Africa, like writing and religion, but the non-Muslim civilizations of the Guinea Coast like Ashanti and Benin didn't owe anything to them, and aside from trade not much to Europeans either. Both the Akan and Yoruba/Edo already had complex societies when Europeans arrived. That's not to say Arabs and Europeans didn't both impact these areas, but their impact was more in the realm of trade than cultural diffusion. Europeans for example supplied the metal which the Benin Bronzes were made from, but there was no actual artistic influence (except for a few isolated examples which were probably Portuguese commissions). And of course the slave trade had a huge impact, but that was hardly positive.
Christopher Baker
>not as developed as places like Eurasia or Mesoamerica
Hol up. How was mesoamerica developed when they didnt have wheels or iron ?
Sebastian Moore
West Africa didn't have wheels either. They had iron and were proficient with it, so in a way you could say they were more technologically advanced, but that's not really the same as development. Mesoamericans developed their land to a much greater degree than West Africans, they expanded education and engaged in massive infrastructural projects. I don't think any West African civilization had any equivalent to the Aztec's public education, and there was certainly no equivalent to their transformation of Lake Texcoco or Palenque's aqueduct system. And while Africans had big cities, they were hardly on par with huge and sophisticated cities like Tenochtitlan, Yaxchilan, Tikal, etc. Admittedly we might be missing some stuff in West Africa due to the lower amount of archaeological research, but probably not that much.
I think the accomplishments of Mesoamerica and the Andes should really show that stuff like wheels and iron shouldn't be held as benchmarks for development, at least not on their own.
Daniel Edwards
They were in the right place at the right time. If they weren't so foolish as to continue human sacrifices they probably could have pulled a Meiji. Their administration was very well organized compared to the petty kingdoms around them.
Emperor Kofi Karikari was very interested in European learning and society.
Samuel Anderson
Ashanti troops were considered slackers, but extremely brave and resourceful when the shit hit the fan. They didn't run from rockets and built barricades. At least according to the british officer I'm reading about.
Grayson Anderson
Man if you keep avatar fagging with Kristen Stewart I'm gonna post her kissing Chadwick what's his face
