Is there any reason not to be a Christian?

Unless you don't mind being a fedora go ahead. Teotl is the true patrician religion.

Yes you do, new age heretic.

>>But user !! You're not harmonizing the Gospels !!

You absolutely need to retard.
Angels, Demons, God incarnating as a human on earth to rise from the dead.

>Is there any reason not to be a Christian?

You don't approve of Joseph or his wife's son

You don't agree with the several sects all claiming to know the truth and yet all claim to be Christian as well.

You don't like the idea of religion being used as a busines.

You agree more with the views of the Buddha.

>evidence

God is supernatural. The supernatural isn't natural. Empiricism is exclusively a study of the natural world and so there CAN NEVER be an experiment to "find God". All you will find is that God doesn't exist in the natural world. But he's supernatural so we already knew that. The definition of Supernatural is: "(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature." so why do you still try to look for evidence. It's like trying to record video with a tape recorder.

Why do you try to rationalize him and his rules then? If you believe this, then take it all the way and admit that you're religious on emotional, and not rational grounds

>You don't have to believe in God to be a Christian

>Atheists telling a Christian how to be Christian

>Atheist pretending to grasp that which the human mind cannot grasp.

Intellectual honesty, perhaps.

If you take the Supernatural creator-of-the-universe stuff out of Christianity (or any religion), what's left is little more than a warm-fuzzy feeling for naive simpletons, blind subordinance to authoritarian institutions and some shitty mental gymnastics (aka Theology/Christian philosophy).

It's a life-denying slave morality.

>t. Martin "Deviantard" Luther

>reason
>logic
>Burden of proof
>not wanting to be a mental slave
>not wanting to be a puppet

You could exchange "Christian" with any other religion and the question wouldn't change does that tell you something ?

- Jesus failed to fulfill the messianic prophecies
- Jesus' apocalyptic prophecies failed

how is christianity still a thing then

Mental gymnastics, damage control, "2deep4u"

It's a social institution, like a government.

you just become a slave to "logic" and "reason" instead

1 John 4:1—Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

No good reason, no.

People want to feel powerful rebelling against God. They'll enjoy that feeling until they die. And then they'll find out that eternity is more important than their finite life ever was.

Jesus fulfilled hundreds of messianic prophecies.

Because he was rejected and murdered, the ones about the Kingdom Age were put on hold.

They will all be fulfilled in the Kingdom Age.

Yes, we smart people know that everything came from nothing, that life came from non-life, that consciousness came from unconsciousness, and that order comes from chaos.

That's the Enlightenment, and the cause of the downfall of Europe.

>They will all be fulfilled in the Kingdom Age.
Problem is that should have come 1900 years ago at the latest.

>have finite life
>receive infinite consequences for finite actions

Explain yourself. The chinese and indians have a mechanism for how afterlife designation works, how does God judge someone to determine such a catastrophically unbalanced scale of justice?

I wish I lived in the Golden Age, giving it up on the Broadway stage.
Hang with the rats and smoke cigars, have a break with Frank and count the stars.
Dressed to the nines, with hair to match. Shiny jewels, casino cash.
Tapping feet, wanna take the lead. A trip back in time is all I need!

Why?

Yes.

If you're alive, you go to the Kingdom of the Living.

If you're dead, you go to the Second Death, which is the Lake of Fire.

Your choice depends on your relationship with Jesus Christ, the Creator. By any name.

>Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

>Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
- Jesus

>For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

>What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away
- Paul, arguably the most important man in the formation of Christianity.

>>Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

John the Revelator, aka John the Beloved

>Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

The generation who sees the Beginning of Sorrows will see the Second Coming.

Two prophecies, conflated by satan, and put forward by you as though true.

>For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

the Rapture, which is imminent.

>What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short.

Yes, time is short. These are the last days. The days between Pentecost 32 AD and the Rapture. And the time between your birth and your death are even shorter.

I do weary of you, satan. I truly do.

41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?

42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

>John the Revelator, aka John the Beloved
What, you think John is immortal?

>The generation who sees the Beginning of Sorrows will see the Second Coming.
He's clearly talking about his, the current generation. I'm surprised you didn't try to say generation really means race or something here like apologists usually do.

And here's another one, explain this

>When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Nope. Why would you think you do? Atheists sure have some strange misconceptions about Christianity sometimes

Nice that we agree (at least to the extent that phrases like "order comes from chaos" have any meaning).

What do you have to do to be a christian then?

>it's boring & tedious
that was it for me

>What, you think John is immortal?

No, but his contemporaries did.

John 21
Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you? You follow Me!” Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you?”

No, he's talking about the generation who experiences the Beginning of Sorrows.

“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

...

So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Your last quote has nothing to do with the Rapture or the Second Coming.

Yes, we're so smart. What bright boys we are! We're smarter than God!

i was raised christian and accepting jesus as your lord and saviour, son of the father god almighty IS the ONE requisite to be a christian
Christianity without the supernatural is not Christianity, else you are just advocating for some moral guidance and cool stories proposed by some dudes back in the bronze age all the way to roman empire

>What do you have to do to be a christian then?
Believe that Jesus Christ sacrificed him to save you. That's it.

you cannot leave out the part about him being the son of God or God existing

>What do you have to do to be a christian then?

You have to do what God says you have to do.

John 3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Romans 10
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

It's easy to be smarter than nothing

I'm sure one day then you'll accomplish that feat.

>People want to feel powerful rebelling against God

The eternal religious strawman.

>They'll enjoy that feeling until they die. And then they'll find out that eternity is more important than their finite life ever was.

How will you feel when you die and find out another religion was right. (I don't think that any is right)

The fact that their evidence is as bad as yours doesn't bother you at all right?

I would instinctively agree with , in the sense that you also have to believe that there is some sort of significance to that act of Jesus, i.e. that his sacrifice did actually "save" me in any meaningful manner.

I mean, I agree that Jesus was crucified, and that he or others around him also thought that he did that for us. Clearly that doesn't make me a Christian.

>You have to do what God says you have to do.
Well, being Christian is the easiest thing ever then. Since God doesn't exist (which is my belief, a belief that apparently doesn't disqualify me from being a christian), he cannot in fact give me any orders that I would have to fulfill, therefore I automatically pass. ez

>The fact that their evidence is as bad as yours doesn't bother you at all right?
Which religion?

Why do you have church fathers like Jerome saying generation is really referring to the Jewish race with 'generation' or academics coming up with theories like preterism that state the prophecies have already been fulfilled if he's simply talking about a future generation? Combined with all the other verses that indicate and imminent second coming that just cant be what he meant.

You'll never know that feeling, unless you repent and are saved.

It's impossible to become a Christian on your own, no matter how long or how hard you try.

It's a supernatural event that requires God's assistance.

Papists are going to hell. Ask them when you get there.

>the soul isn't immortal and it's a logical fact

This pretty much

Strawman, we're working on it, consciousness is a property of matter, and strawman

Less wasted time

Does it hurt to be this wrong?

>consciousness is a property of matter

Yes
is basically if to believe in a higher power or not
Christianity as a subcategory of Abrahamism,subcategory of monotheism,subcategory of religion which is subcategory of believing in something greater or a greater power need way more evidence and reasonable claims,but what we get is a dude that technically fucked his mother

For me, I would have to be lying.

I simply do not believe. To declare otherwise would be to lie to the community, myself, and God, if there is such a thing.

I doubt faith, and I have faith in doubt. Doubt brings solutions and motivates inquiry. Faith draws conclusions and suspends inquiry.

Hmm.

Is it unreasonable to believe in cyclical universe with no supernatural intervention? Is it reasonable to believe in a fluctuation of material states between order and chaos?

Is it unreasonable to believe in the incidental accumulation of traits which lend to survival and complexity?

God as an end-all argument is problematic. It is unfalsifiable. You declare that there is a force which has existed forever and possesses properties from which our universe arises. The only difference between "God" and the universe itself is semantics/dogma.

God, stripped of the flavor given him by various religions, is little more than the universe itself: something that has been around forever and requires no explanation. You simply give him qualities which render him impossible to talk about outside your desired context. It is starting with the solution and providing no evidence (or declaring triumphantly that everything is indisputable evidence for God).

Self-Awareness is a stimulus-response feedback loop linked with the neurochemical events occurring in the brain.

So yes. Consciousness is a property of matter. When Phineas Gage got a railroad spike through his eye, he survived, but his behavior changed as a direct consequence of damage to his brain. He was a less efficient worker, less friendly, more prone to emotional outbursts.

The truth is a large part of who Phineas Gage was died with the brain damage. Certain aspects of consciousness, esp. the physical sense can be directly fucked with by fucking with the brain. It is not unreasonable to assume that the stream of consciousness concludes when the brain dies. You files do not go to heaven when you destroy your hard drive.

Do you think the majority of Muslims actually believe? The strength of religion comes not from true believers but binding communities and peoples together with a common thread

The brain is the hardware the software of consciousness runs on. If you damage your computers CPU your programs will run slower, but the programs themselves are unchanged.

>The strength of religion comes not from true believers but binding communities and peoples together with a common thread

I am very aware of this.

I am frequently caught between the benefits of being part of a church community, and the indignity of lying about who I am.

I chose to lose, unfortunately. I forgo the benefits of the religious community.

This is because I think there are far better and more relevant bases upon which humans can bond, even if those bases are abstract, less accessible, and take longer to understand than religion.

Yes, because you would lose usable energy and information in each iteration and you would now be in heat death.

So yes, infinite regressions are impossible.

God is not a force; he's a person. A person different than we are, yet able to become one of us. He also made other beings of light who are different than we are, yet able to become one of us. He also made us.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; you're not even at the starting line yet.

Was the spike also conscious?

I can't decide whether this post is more clueless about computers or about the brain.

It's very hard to build a satisfying life without the right framework. A lot of people say they don't need guidance but many of them end up meandering pointlessly through life. I saw Christianity not only as a faith, but as a stepping stone to improving my life and becoming a better person. I think constant introspection is absolutely necessary for a person, and you can get that through meditation or prayer. I feel like many atheists choose to reject the frameworks of life used by many and then completely fail to build their own. What does it mean to be a 'good person'? What are your goals? What is the purpose of you continuing to exist? How do I effectively pass on my values to the next generation? All questions I feel like we do not ask ourselves often enough. At the very least Christianity gets you asking the right questions about life, even if you cannot believe in God

People who use the WHAT I KNOW IS UNKNOWABLE argument are retarded, that is not an argument against the fallacious nature of your God

I dont think you understand what evidence is - see pic related -

Why aren't you an Arian yet? Jesus HIMSELF said:

John 14:48 :
...My Father is greater than I

John 10:29:
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all...

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing....

Johh 5:30 clearly implies Jesus does not possess the quality of God. God can do everything.

Matthew 24:36:
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This verse is talking about doomsday. This clearly state that Jesus(Son) doesn't know when is doomsday. God know everything, but Jesus doesn't know everything.

Mark 10:18
"And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

Jesus, according to him, are not even worthy to be called good. Much less a god.

Mark 12:29
"Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.

The Trinity concept is refuted by Jesus.

John 5:31
"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.

If Jesus is god, then how come he CANNOT testify his own testimony?

Isaiah 11:2-3

2. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the FEAR OF THE LORD
3. and he will delight in the fear of the LORD....

'God'(Jesus) fearing another God(Father)? Nonsense.

ACCORDING TO YOU CHRISTIANS, Jesus was begotten by God, which literally means he has a beginning. Thus he is not God, for God has no beginning.

Look, all of this verses shows that Jesus is NOT God. Do you not care about your Jesus said? Are you really putting your Jesus's words below the Epistles?

>Jesus fulfilled hundreds of messianic prophecies.

How convienent that he fulfilled all the prophecies that are impossible to verify in future times yet decided not fullfill those which would have left a huge and accessible objective record.

If you don't give jackshit about what Jesus said, if you thumb sucking the from what other people say about him, then listen to Peter, the Leader of the Disciples:

Acts 2:22
"Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a """"""""""MAN"""""""""" accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

A MAN, not a god. A Prohet, not a god.

then how do you know it exists you idiot?

>People who use the WHAT I KNOW IS UNKNOWABLE argument are retarded

>implying Wittgenstein was retarded
>implying Bertrand Russel was retarded
I think it's time for you to return to Plebbit.

Daniel's 70 week prophecy.
Jesus rode into Jerusalem the day Daniel said the Messiah would be raised up, and then cut off (die), but not for himself.

Artaxerxes declared the Temple could be rebuilt in March of 445 BC. Daniel made the prophecy some time around 550 BC.

And 69 weeks later, or 483 years as a week in Hebrew prophecy is 7 years, Jesus shows up on Palm Sunday.

You can verify that to your heart's content. You'll have to be a lot wiser than you are now to do the math though.

Wounded in this house of his friends? Check
Born in Bethlehem? Check
Descendant of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David? Check
Heir to David's throne? Check
Called "God with us"? Check
Called out of Egypt? Check
Declared the Son of God? Check
Called a King? Check
Betrayed by a friend? Check
Sold out for 30 pieces of silver? Check
Silver used to buy a potter's field? Check
Falsely accused? Check
Offered no defense? Check
Crucified with criminals? Check
Hung on a tree? Check
Buried with the rich? Check
Hands and feet pierced? Check
No bones broken? Check
Given vinegar to drink? Check
Mocked and ridiculed? Check
People would cast lots for his clothes? Check
Forsaken by God? Check
Stabbed in the side? Check
Resurrected on the third day? Check
Ascend to heaven? Check
At the right hand of God? Check
Sacrifice for sin? Check

You can believe whatever you want. You're just not entitled to your own facts.

John 1:1 says that the Word (Jesus) was with God and was God.
In John 10:30 Jesus said that He and the Father are one.
In John 14:9 He said that anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father.
In Colossians 1:15 Paul wrote that Jesus is the (visible) image of the invisible God.
In Hebrews 1:3 Jesus is called the exact representation of God’s glory
In Hebrews 1:8 God Himself called Jesus God.
God’s Spirit is presumed to be one and the same with God just as your spirit is presumed to be one and the same with you. So if God and Jesus are one and the same, and God and His Spirit are one and the Same, then the three are one.

There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 45:5-6). Yet there are three persons presented as deity in Scripture: the Father (John 6:27; Colossians 1:3), the Son (John 1:1-3, 14; 8:24; 20:28-29; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:10-12) and the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17; Acts 5:3-4; 2 Samuel 23:2-3; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Lastly, these three are presented as distinct persons (John 8:16-18; Luke 11:1; 3:21-22; Galatians 4:6). Thus from Scripture we learn that although there is one God, there are three distinct persons who are deity. So the Trinity is the biblical position to hold to once one examines what Scripture teaches.

Because God revealed himself to mankind, for one.

And because everything properly in the bible is true, for two.

>study the bible just so you can refute autist on a taiwanese whicker basket weaving website

>Wounded in this house of his friends? Check
>Born in Bethlehem? Check
>Descendant of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David? Check
>Heir to David's throne? Check
>Called "God with us"? Check
>Called out of Egypt? Check
>Declared the Son of God? Check
>Called a King? Check
>Betrayed by a friend? Check
>Sold out for 30 pieces of silver? Check
>Silver used to buy a potter's field? Check
>Falsely accused? Check
>Offered no defense? Check
>Crucified with criminals? Check
>Hung on a tree? Check
>Buried with the rich? Check
>Hands and feet pierced? Check
>No bones broken? Check
>Given vinegar to drink? Check
>Mocked and ridiculed? Check
>People would cast lots for his clothes? Check
>Forsaken by God? Check
>Stabbed in the side? Check
>Resurrected on the third day? Check
>Ascend to heaven? Check
>At the right hand of God? Check
>Sacrifice for sin? Check

Like I said things with evidence only in the Bible and not verifiable beyond that. Its like using Hubbards biography as proof that he was a war hero and nuclear physicist.

To rely on these as an ultimate proof is to engage in circular reasoning.

Meanwhile things which are objective like bringing world peace, gathering all the jews back to Israel and making them all respected in the world (ie things which can be demonstrated without having faith that the bible is true)

>And 69 weeks later, or 483 years as a week in Hebrew prophecy is 7 years, Jesus shows up on Palm Sunday.

Yeah because he was totally refering to a spiritual temple and not the actual temple

Are you serious? Most of these aren't Jesus OWN words. Why you desperately to say the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Jesus said? Jesus never said he was God or worship him. Even the disciples doesn't write the Gospel.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible

Who is your master? Jesus or the Epistles?

Are you born with mental illness? No, serious question. I'm literally worried about you.

Psalm 22 doesn't even referred to Jesus. It talk about bulls, lions and oxens. Where the hell does that fit in Jesus Crucifixion?

Nah ive just been studying a bunch of religions and have started to notice how the information which is the most damming tends to come from the information sources not controlled by the group. Older religions like Christianity and Islam are luckier in this sense as they had control over what information was preserved.

Ive seen Mormons and JWs use the same methods you are.

Called a king? Where?

Heir to David throne? Where? David has both spiritual and worldly kingdom. Jesus only has spritual. The Jews were sitting on the throne, not Jesus.

Called "God with us"? Emanuel? LITERALLY WHERE?

Many people are gods, according to your logic:

Eliadah or Eliada means "God knows".

Eliab means "my God is Father".

Elzaphan means "God is Protector"

Eliakim means "God raises".

Elisha means "God is Salvation".

Eleazar means "God has helped"

>Yeah because he was totally refering to a spiritual temple and not the actual temple

The actual temple.

483 years after the decree from captivity by Artaxerxes that the Jews could rebuild their temple, Jesus rode a colt into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday.

Exactly 483 years to the date.

You can verify that for yourself.

Please do try to disprove all of those messianic prophecies; it's one of the best ways to be saved (because you'll fail to disprove any of them).

>Jesus never said he was God or worship him.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, Chapter 1

John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

I'm deadly serious, yes.

The Roman troops stationed there who beat him had the moniker "The Bulls of Bashaan", and their symbol was a bull.

You can verify this in Roman history, if you'd like.

Matthew 27:11
Now Jesus stood before the governor. And the governor asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?” Jesus said to him, “It is as you say.”

>God with us"? Emanuel? LITERALLY WHERE?

John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

...

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.