What do you guys think about HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) or its more physical cousin HMB (Historical...

>HMB
>Historical

Pick one and only one. It's an entirely modern rule set, which ensures that it's combatants fight in an entirely modern way.

You could replace the armour with biker leathers, the ""falchions"" with crowbars and call it "Post apocalyptic battle" and it would be identical.

Won't argue there isn't some problems, but we are working on it all the time, aiming to be more in line with a Pas-de-armes foot-melee rather than the Russian BotN free-for all.

ALC rules are focusing more and more on skill and historic accuracy.

Thanks for the first clarification, honestly I'm not being condescending or an ass I didn't really realize I was coming accross as aggressive to be honest sorry about that friendo :(

The axe thing was most of the people I train with have been telling me and I've seen a few people just go for the gaps in armor with an axe to great effect. My instructor uses a mace though and he's on the American national team (or at least was)
Bucket haven't bought yet :'(

>My instructor uses a mace though and he's on the American national team (or at least was)

Andre?

No
His names Damian (don't know if it's o or a)

Where do you live?
Then From there just check out any local ACL leagues

How would one get involved in this sport?

The BotN website is dogshit and I can't figure out anything from it.

Check

Glad to hear it. I cringe everything I see a video if two guys in tin cans hugging each other while flailing around, posted as an example of what a "real medieval battle would be like".

What's ACL stand for?

Damion, if you're in New York.

As says. You start out of armour, and work on technique and conditioning. I don't say this to sound tough, but its really not for everyone.

>BotN
Is an event. You want the ACL (Armoured Combat League) or HMB (Historic Medieval Battle International).

>I cringe everything I see a video if two guys in tin cans hugging each other while flailing around, posted as an example of what a "real medieval battle would be like".

You're right. They would be on the ground, hugging each other and trying to stab each other with daggers.

Armoured Combat League

Yea that's the guy

Where are you located btw

Virginia, in the Historic Triangle. Trying to get a local team started so I don't have to drive three hours each way to a practice.

Exactly. All modern reconstructions inevitably fall down due to the combatants aren't REALLY trying to murder each other, so fighting style is adjusted accordingly, but you can at least get some idea. HMB just seems to be held up as some ultra realistic example though for some reason. Maybe because it's "full contact" whatever that means.

Nice, thankfully my place is only a 30 minute train ride away.
Are you planning on starting a whole new chapter or just having a nearby place to train?

Former sport fencer here, you'll find the bigger autists here. HEMA autists are the kind that drink beer out of steins and like steampunk

"Full Contact" is the worst, most cancerous meme description to exist in historic martial arts, larp, fencing etc.

I'd like to have more than one other ACL fighter and a handful of open-minded SCA/HEMA folk to play with regularly, but getting a full chapter and team is a goal.

>Steampunk
Kill it with greek fire.

Best of luck to you, buddy!
Shouldn't be too hard I'd imagine. Don't you have a town hall where you could advertise or people who go the same club as you who live at a similar distance?

Wasn't the term dreamed up by Brian R. "cheat and steal money from suppliers and clients while simultaneously running a school on chivalry" Price?

Its a hard sell. It require a lot more time, money and dedication than the average HEMA practitioner or historic recreationist (SCA, Markland, Adrian Empire etc) is willing to put in.

You mean Brian R "Edits his wikipedia article to remove anything negative" Price?

Thats a name I haven't heard in some time....

Whats wrong with the term full contact? People use it to describe other types of sports.

Seems like the ACL doesn't have a Europe chapter, according to their website.

And I can't find a website for the HMBI, only gives me the BotN website.

Because it has no agreed defined meaning. A boffer larp can call itself "full contact" when its rule disallow head shots and you can't touch them with anything but a weapon. Full contact football has a definite meaning, compared to touch, flag etc.

Its like "organic" as a description for food. There is no regulation or agreed definition of the word, and people use it to sound "cooler" or "better"

Try HMB Also:

>a Europe chapter
Because Europe isn't a country. Try searching your specific country.

Ditto. I had quite forgotten him until I mentoned """"""full contact""""""". His wiki page is surprisingly glowing.

>Recently he has spoken at the UK Ministry of Defence

Fucking hell...

>HEMA

worse than SCA desu

>HMB

solid, but fights seem to devolve pretty quickly

nobody keeps formation

Is it mostly 1v1 fights or do people actually fight in formations?

Both
5v5 is super popular
Also heard of 16v16 royales (without cheese) and those become a brawl fairly quick

Question, what do you think of Buhurt? I was in Poland while ago and saw a tournament of this and was interested on how it plays on the historical accuracy part, way I understood its more slavs getting armored and smacky

armoredfighting.com/fighting.php
This looks pretty useful desu

All of the above. Max is 32 v 32, o3 8v8v8v8v8v8

ACL is bohurt.

What type of formations can you do with so few?

Triads, hammer and anvils, two-man division....

>....

Look at rugby and hockey defense or beatdown plays. There is tons of stuff.

New to HMB
Where's the best place to get armor
Specifically talking to this guy if he's still around
Also I want to go for a crusader look, are great helms good protection? I hate bascinets and everyone at my place wear em
(I want to stand out)

HEMA is historical, and teaches you good swordsmanship, which you will never ever need.
HMB and friends is ahistorical full contact fun in knights dress up.
Both is good fun, slight advantage for HEMA because way more stuff and historic research and less concussions.
As long as you don't join SCA you should be alright.

>t. desperate SCA fag

>your face when you practice an art for warriors rather than a sport for mass consumption

What sport is that?

what the fuck is SCA

We don't talk about it
(SCA is HMB but "lighter" it's cheaper and instead of using full on hits or until someone gets thrown into the ground you use an honesty system on wether or not the hit would have killed you. Also they use rattan instead of steel)

Larp with weapons. While in some ways it was a precursor to hema its rules are stricter and training isn't based on historical models.

Full day larp with kings and queens and fancy names and dress up and renaissance fair, oh and some stick fighting too.

Which Crusade? Because the early crusades are right out as they would never be legal in the armour requirements. The blunt reason you see Bascinets is because they work really well in combat. If you want to stand out, do a later period like 15th or 16thC.

>As long as you don't join SCA you should be alright.
Get fucked. 90% of the North American fighters are SCA.

The Japs get their shit wrecked in HMB. The best ones fight in Euro armour, or are American/Ausie Expats.

Historic recreation (note the difference between reenactment and recreation) that is as says. Allows much larger numbers, archery and siege weapons.

As an SCAer, larper, HEMA practitioner and ACL fighter, you should really do some research before to run your mouths. More so, there is a ton of cross practice. The titles are a hold over from our origins as a backyard party, for our local presidents and leaders, and we study both material culture and social culture aspects of history, along side fighting.

>training isn't based on historical models.
Thats changed in the bast decade, with the better availability of steel weapons (which we also do) and historic combat resources.

Get gud.

>The Japs get their shit wrecked in HMB. The best ones fight in Euro armour, or are American/Ausie Expats.

And I doubt those doing it have much training in any legit school of kenjutsu.

Actually, their national team started as all national Kenjutsu, jujitsu and kendo champs. The old JABL captain was actually apparently the son of some major school.

WAS the captain. Jay Noyes is an American expat who has since replaced him.

There are no kenjutsu champs and tradtional jujutsu schools dont have tournaments. If you said kendo or judo I might believe you.

Fact is many koryu would expel a student for participating in something like that

>And I doubt those doing it have much training in any legit school of kenjutsu.
Why? Katas aren't particularly good at preparing people for combat. Unless you include some realistic sparring in your training, which kenjutsu isn't really known for (you even state above that koryu schools would expel people for competing), your training isn't going to be very effective.

I did include kendo, and I am just passing on the info I was told. I dont speak moonrunes and can't read their page.

Not that I particularly care either. Just go cry over your grorrious Nihon failing against the Koreans and Chinese teams.

Sorry Gropey, but SCA is LARP. It might be good fun and everything, but it is LARP. It's like Disney Land for adults, with castles and knights and fair maidens and foam weapon fights.

As a larper, its not. No story line, not characters, no goal. Its more of a social club.
The whole name thing is only for people some people as part of the historic education aspect when they choose a period. Robert of Rome sounds weird when you're doing an educational demo at a school.

There is nothing wrong with larping, but it just shows you have a fundamental lack of knowledge of both the SCA and larping

>not LARPing

Nope. Costumed historic social club. If it had a plot, like a reenactment, it would be a larp.

Also: fucking sunglasse in front! Reeee!

>totally historic

Last Crusade or maybe even Reconquista

For the sake of brevity I will only address the state of things in those schools that haven't devolved into preservation societies.

First Kata were an are an effective way to train people in swords, polearms and other such weapons. They were used to prepare men for duels, and no holds bar matches with wooden weapons which occurred in Japan at least up through the 60's. When done properly two man koryu kata can be terrifying, because any strike can result in serious injuries. They can be performed rigidly or fluidly with variations depending on the art and the experience of those doing them.

Many of the surviving schools do have sparring in an official capacity, and others have a long history with kendo or judo and draw their practitioners from those arts.

Even in those that do not officially spar there are members who ex members who cross swords in a freestyle manner either with or sometimes without sanctions. Things happen behind closed doors that if your not a member you are likely to only hear about in passing or not at all. They are not my stories to tell but some of them are pretty eye opening.

Give me the link, my moon isnt that good but I am curious so I would like to give it a go.

>Social club
About as historic as HEMA in motorcross kit, or Not allowing stabbing in ACL/HMB.

What kind of point are you trying to make, aside that you are an autist? Its a costumed historic recreation social club. We're not here to discus the culture or the costumes, but the fact that the baton combat has helped bring HMB to North America.

I am done with you now, you may go.

The reconquista is over 700 years of history, and the last crusade is early 1200s, and thus not legal armour for safety reasons.

Basically, you NEED at least 14thC or something else with a majority of plate and padding.

Most of it was info in english passed on via forums and facebook. But maybe you can try their website? I would enjoy some first hand www.armoredbattle.com/info.

Sorry Gropey, I admitted a few posts back that it is good fun, but no one will take you seriously, neither from the historic point of view nor from the swordsmanship nor for full contact fun.
Deal with it.

Gropey is established with credentials. Why would people care about you?

Whatever gets you to half mast bro.

I would be happy to talk about in person, should you be close. I have actually met and had some good sparring sessions with anons from Veeky Forums.

I agree with gropey
It's certainly historic as that armor has to be period based
Also it for sure fucking is full contact fun (whatever that means),
SCA and HMB is like airsoft to paintball
Except that HMB hurts more
The whole honor system used in SCA is pants on head retarded imho

HEMA is a question of availability, if you happen to have a good club nearby, good for you, then your training will look something like this:
youtube.com/watch?v=d0xl_Z4B3Ug
youtube.com/watch?v=V4r28Udlon8
youtube.com/watch?v=TEJnChfLTs8
youtube.com/watch?v=0nHxhY6brDk

If you don't have a good club in your vincinity don't even bother with HEMA, because bad HEMA is awful.

>Except that HMB hurts more
Water is wet: News at 11

>The whole honor system used in SCA is pants on head retarded imho
Well, like HEMA sparing, its not about breaking your friends. Its a hobby in the end.

As far as medieval combat hobbies go, ACL/HMB is a very far extreme, with the goal of actively incapacitating, knowing down, or forcing the opponent to yield. Its much less inclusive based on this. On the bright side, it keeps out a lot of assholes.

>If you don't have a good club in your vincinity don't even bother with HEMA, because bad HEMA is awful.

This can go for anything in the spectrum of the hobby. When its good, its great. When its bad, its horrific.

Certainly couldn't find anything about their kenjutsu/kendo/jujutsu credentials there. Thinking about looking at their japanese weapons videos to see if its kenjutsu-like or chambara like

Shit I should probably go for a bascinet then anyway :(
Sallet helms seem way to expensive and I fear that you could really fuck up your neck of you get hit in the bevor in the right angle
Also the armor that's contemporary with Sallet helms seems really expensive

>I would be happy to talk about in person, should you be close. I have actually met and had some good sparring sessions with anons from Veeky Forums.
Happy to oblige, but I'm Europe based, can't see me traveling to the states in the near future, but if you come to the old continent we can discuss this and do some sparring.

Someone that is qualified to discuss with Gropey about fencing matters.

HEMA/SCAfag. Im solid with clownfags explanation. You're just a cuck.

This was like, two years ago when they first formed.

The youtube vids are awful and they fight like ass. Be warned.

But it is rather extreme with HEMA, you can have a serious sports club, with proper physical training, methodics, and personal, or you can have a garage club consisting of two fat neckbeards, a blue haired girl and a tranny.

Where in Europe? Depending on a few factors, I may be in France for business.

Gropey, jog my memory.

Aren't you black? I only recently started coming here but I distinctly remember a black dude on /k/ and Veeky Forums who used to do HEMA.

Close enough, I got leisure time till May, but I'll be be traveling myself, likely away till first week of March.
Rest of March to May is looking good. Any chance that fits your schedule.

>Aren't you black?
Not as far as I have noticed.

Depending on how things go with work, and what horrors Emperor Trump unleashes, I may be in France to look at some French colonial texts in the fall.

Yes, just drop me a line on the HEMA general when you know the details. Would that be Paris based?

There's a HEMA general?

...

No freaking clue yet. I was just told I might go to France for a week. Now I am told that the state Museums near us might shut down. Things are crazy.

Are you legitimate historian?

Shocking, eh? I've worked at a couple of museums, both historic interpretation and glove-work.

oh god there's still legit martial arts discussion in that hell hole?

They like spandex, we like spandex, we'll be fine.
A good sword or historic martial arts thread on Veeky Forums is nice, but the HEMA general does belong on the alternative sports board. But yes /asp/ is pretty fucked. Thanks Hiro

Sometimes, but its like Veeky Forums, in that it sucks at its actual purpose 99% of the time with the same 5 threads ad nauseum.

It's a shame really. Some of the best talks I've had on Veeky Forums were on that board in it's early days. Now it's just an endless string of 2-3 post long threads left to die.

>Now it's just an endless string of 2-3 post long threads left to die.
It seems ADHD is common amongst rassling fans.

I mean it's to be expected