Human nature

To what extent does it exist? Is it really human nature to be greedy, selfish etc.

I find it hard to believe capitalism is really the end of history, every other system has been replaced so why won't this one?

Пидop! Кpacнoe гoвнo! Кoммyниcт!

Too fat.

We aren't cats or dogs, we are people. Therefore we are of a distinct nature, separate from the other kinds of things.

But in relation to our economic system, is capitalism human nature?

I think it's out best conception of human nature, you have to remember the fields of Economics/Finance/Banking still don't know a LOT about how markets actually work. Very hard to have working models.

So the answer? Yeah, for right now it's the end of history until will find something that doesn't stifle the free-will aspects of capitalism which may or may not ever happen.

So you don't believe our actions are shaped by our material conditions?
Surely, hunter-gather societies differ vastly from capitalism, and require far more generosity/selflessness.

If the system which surrounds us rewards selfish behaviour, then humans will be selfish, surely?

Humans are animals. Our nature is that of animal nature.

While Confucious may have believed that humans are naturally good, Zuangzhi believes humans are primal and only through cultivation of humility, ethics, and respect, would a human of self-worth be properly cultivated.

Human nature is a meme, the idea is that no humans are perfect, some are more ambitious than others and they will utilize the flaws of system to get ahead of the flock.

Also, capitalism has existed ever since property exists, Marx is a fucking retard.

Exactly. The Hunter-Gatherer dynamic was far more of a "I depend on my immediate relations to help keep me alive."

Then the feudal ideaology trumped Hunter-Gatherers, so the thought was "I depend on serving my liege-lord so I can live"

The capitalist dyanmic replaced that at some point, which came to the conclusion of "I must contribute to society in some way in order to survive"

And under our current conception, we've balanced selfishness under that idea that if you're making money, you're likely stimulating capitalism in a way that makes it stronger, which in turn has a hand in strengthening our society as certain systems become codified ways of human life.

Beyond needing to eat, drink, sleep, piss and shit, there isn't one

You make a law A. Most people will follow law A. Some will break it. Why? Because they benefit somehow and are willing to take the risk. Why do they benefit? Human nature.

Every time you try to impose something abstract on society, the degree to which it does not work can be largely attributed to human nature. If there are other factors they are almost always very observable since to contradict human nature you need something like a propaganda campaign which you can observe as much as the people influenced by it.

So you try to brainwash everyone to think that law A is the shit. You indoctrinate everyone in classrooms. You try to stifle the idea they can break law A. However you fail. Why? Your own human nature has interfered with the process, you assumed people are like pawns when in reality they can see straight through it. When the government is that adamant about something that just piques curiosity about why they are so adamant, and it is rarely the reasons stated. Maybe some people were successfully indoctrinated, but only because they were already inclined towards law A and so it doesn't change anything

You try emotional appeals, you try misinformation, however, again, your own human nature interferes. Why use these sly strategies to get people to support righteous law A when you can get them to support sly law B which grants you kickbacks and privileges. If you are morally upstanding then someone else can do it in your place.

So a fellow morally upstanding person says "maybe we should take human nature into account". However again your own human nature interferes, you are so adamant and zealous that you view any change as an attack on the purity of your ideology.

Maybe capitalism will be replaced one day, but not by yours.

lol

Humans are a specific type of animal with our own behavioral characteristics.

Ownership of property is natural in the sense that we naturally wish to exclude others from things that we have uses for. In nature property rights are asserted through use and exclusion. In this simple sense lower animals also own property. Territorial creatures fend off competition which encroaches on their land, which they mark as their own. A dog will aggressively posture if you try to take its food, etc. People are somewhat unique in that we voluntarily exchange property with one another and wholly unique because we create laws to govern these exchanges.

In natural ecosystems we find private property in the first, animal sense, limited only by strength and aggression. In every human society we find both the animal instinct for aggressive assertions of ownership, but we also find legal and social norms that allow for civil exchange of goods. This is true for all peoples, in all places, across the whole of human history. Where the instinct for ownership and trade are stiffled by oppression, it appears spontaneously with the formation of underground illegal marketplaces.

I'll say that it is clear that we have an instinct for private ownership and voluntary exchange and cooperation. This I think can reasonably be called a part of human nature. I leave it to you to call this natural inclination an instinct for capitalism or not. I don't know what you mean by the term.

prove me wrong

All other animals need to eat, drink, and shit. Humans are a particular kind of animal, not just animals. Therefore we have a separate nature or set or defining characteristics.

Nope. We are one of high phylogenetic types of animals. We do piss, eat, drink, shit, have sex, but we also build and create. And we can speak.

A unfortunate number of people aren't having real sex and do more texting than speaking as they feed their energy into the internet. It's the Matrix, and the bodies are just used for recycling nutrients.

OK so what is it?

It is it.

Right now, capitalism is sustaining its current form by exporting its problems elsewhere, and has been doing this since the days of colonialism. I don't necessarily agree with Marx that communism is the endpoint of history (I don't think there is one) but I do think we will by necessity see a major shift in our economic systems when we run out of places to exploit for our goods.

So...Singularity when???

really my almonds jogging

When everyone agrees.

the capitalist system is ultimately held up by the mutual exploitation of ones fellow within a given market. By this logic capitalism would ultimately collapse if the market were to be dissolved. The replacement would either lead to serfdom or a system which no longer is reliant on the exploitation of labor for the accrual of resources.

If there is a horse nature...

And there is a dog nature...


Why shouldn't there be a human nature?

Consciousness and higher order thoughts aren't a constant anyway most of the stuff you do are gut reactions, higher order reasoning comes and goes.

Of course there's a human nature. The issue is to which point it extends. You have basic bodily functions. Then you have more complex behavioural patterns like the fight or flight reaction. The ability to speak is also inborn. But to which degree really complex behavioural patterns are human nature? Hard to tell.

human nature is tribalistic