Why are the Ancient Greeks considered a part of western civilization?

Because they were in Europe. Also, probably because they had a huge influence on the Romans.

Didnt other civs do this as well though? Even before them?

werent they closer and more heavily influenced by the near east?

I am glad they've converted to Christianity. Fucking degenerates and animals...
>inb4 replies

Rome being more influenced by the east? No. Greece did base some of their gods off of eastern traditions though.

>Soccrates decides to question shit(to battle democracy lolololol)

>Plato learns from Soccrates

>Plato creates metaphysical idea of dualism

>Plato opens school

>Aristotle learns from plato

>Aristotle dialectically takes idea of dualism and makes it better

>Aristotle goes to rome & teaches Alexander the Great

>Christianity happens

>Christianity takes idea of dualism (heaven/hell)

>Crusades happen

> ~500 years of fighting over story based on Plato's metaphysics

> eventually people are like "yo dawgs, lets try not having a state run by the church and shit, this aint workin too good"

>US constitution denotes a separation of church and state

TL;DR Hegellian Dialectics

Hegel is cool. Go read hegel

they are though even civilisational wise they're share more in common with egyptian and near east civilisations than they do with germanics and nordics

Uh, you know that the greeks founded a few colonies/cities in africa, specifically egypt, right?

And that Persians were westerners and/or descended from western settlers?

In actuality, the east took more from the west than what you're suggesting.

Ancient Greeks were white

So are modern ones

They're not by anyone who has any idea what they're talking about.

Westerners always had a more or less healthy admiration for ancient Greco-Romans, but the meme that we literally ARE them comes from larping Renaissance Italians who rabidly hated everything about medieval Western civilisation, and therefore pretended to belong to a different civilisation that had been dead for over a thousand years.

"Western Civilisation" isn't a thing. It's a laughably vague construct conjured up by reactionaries.

t. Jew

>Europe
Didn't exist at the time.

No one reads Hegel, not even Hegel. That's why his work looks like an unrevised clusterfuck.

The concept of Europe did not exist on ancient times. Geographically speaking, Europe is not a real continent, it's just a peninsula of Eurasia. It's defined on racial terms, as the land where white people live, but there used to be plenty of whites on North Africa, the Near East and Central Asia. They were since wiped out, through migration or miscegenation with invaders.

Try again.

Literally making shit up.
>The first recorded usage of Eurṓpē as a geographic term is in the Homeric Hymn to Delian Apollo, in reference to the western shore of the Aegean Sea. As a name for a part of the known world, it is first used in the 6th century BC by Anaximander and Hecataeus. Anaximander placed the boundary between Asia and Europe along the Phasis River (the modern Rioni) in the Caucasus, a convention still followed by Herodotus in the 5th century BC.[20] Herodotus mentioned that the world had been divided by unknown persons into three parts, Europe, Asia, and Libya (Africa), with the Nile and the River Phasis forming their boundaries—though he also states that some considered the River Don, rather than the Phasis, as the boundary between Europe and Asia.[21] Europe's eastern frontier was defined in the 1st century by geographer Strabo at the River Don.[22] The Book of Jubilees described the continents as the lands given by Noah to his three sons; Europe was defined as stretching from the Pillars of Hercules at the Strait of Gibraltar, separating it from North Africa, to the Don, separating it from Asia.

then where did they live?

>reddit spacing

unironically true, pan-europanism is idiotic

...

>not using reddit spacing

This

Because so much of Western society and ideals are predicated upon the ideas of Greek civilisation

A lot of those (if not all of them) are Egyptians.

>"Western Civilisation" isn't a thing. It's a laughably vague construct conjured up by reactionaries.

Right, and considering the West as "not a thing" surely isn't motivated by any ideology at all.

Yea, those are sarcophagus coverings

They look like Afro-Meds, Lybians and Egyptians.

google.com/search?q=egyptian greek painting&biw=1366&bih=651&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwilur7khOXRAhUB7iYKHRW5A9wQ_AUIBigB

They're the Fayum mummy portraits. Greek-Egyptians mixes to be exact.

what even is this le ebin bullshit maymay? Those are roman times fayums portraying Egyptian people. What is the shitty doodle on the left supposed to be? A modern Greek?

upvoted

>being this new
It's strawman comic that suggest that Nordic nationalists, aka "snowniggers", think that Greeks/Romans were also Nordic.
The original has a Black person looking at a Caucasian-looking Egyptian sarcophagus, which was made into a drawing. It was mocking afrocentrist.

>being this new
I just never browse /pol/ and /int/ to see the racial "bantz" as the cool kids say.

The majority of portraits represent native Egyptians, with Greek settlers included.[15][16] Victor J. Katz notes that "most modern studies conclude that the Greek & Egyptian communities coexisted with little mutual influence".[17] Anthony Lowsted has written extensively on the scope of Apartheid that separated the 2 communities during the Hellenistic, Roman & Byzantine period. [18]

The Greeks and Romans both laid down the basis for three civilizations that would follow; Latin Christendom, Orthodox Christendom, and Islam. Latin Christendom, which emerged from the so-called 'Dark Ages' with the Carolingian Empire, is what we call the West today. It was divided from the Orthodox world not just by different religious conventions (the church didn't officially split until the 11th century) but by deeper cultural divisions going back to the Latin West and Greek East of the Roman Empire.

Initially Orthodox Christendom and Islam both had far more Greek influence than the West. It was only during the High Middle Ages that Greek influence returned to the West through the Arabs, and later during the Renaissance Westerners increasingly saw the Greeks as their own forefathers; true because the Greeks certainly did lay down the basis for their intellectual culture, but this was equally true of Islam and Orthodoxy.

So why did the Greeks become retroactively seen as 'Western', and disassociated from Islam and Orthodoxy? With Orthodoxy the reason is fairly simple; because it was subsumed by the West. Russia, which became the heart of Orthodoxy after the fall of Byzantium, Westernised in the 18th century, soon to be followed by the likes of Greece and Romania which turned to the West as they freed themselves from Ottoman rule. In Islam disassociation from the Greeks probably has more to do with Islam's rejection of Greek philosophy in its later history, compared with the West's revival of it at the same time. Furthermore, the Greeks and Romans were never Islam's only foundation, since Persian and of course Arab foundations equally shaped the course of its civilization, so Greek influence was seen as only a smaller component of their heritage compared with other influences. Muslims tended to emphasis their Persian and Arab heritage over their Greco-Roman heritage, in contrast to the West which emphasized Greco-Roman and Christian heritage over Germanic or Celtic heritage.

So finally, with Islam disassociated from the Greeks and the Orthodox world falling into irrelevancy, the West was able to claim the Greeks exclusively for themselves. Of course this is as anachronistic as claiming that the Greeks were Islamic, but it seems less obvious because most people don't even know what 'Western' means and just associate it with 'Europe' and 'White people'.

Someone post the screen cap about fucking ass and inventing western civilization.

>Islam both had far more Greek influence than the West.
Really? Latin Christianity is extremely influenced by Greek Philosophy. You really think someone living on the Italian peninsula had less Greek influence than someone living on the Arabian peninsula?

Islamic civilization was centered in places like Iraq, Syria, Persia, Egypt, Transoxiana, Spain, etc, not really Arabia. Scholars in these regions in the Middle Ages were familiar with Greek literature, science and philosophy. Meanwhile in Western Europe, Greek literature only had a marginal presence before the Latin translations of the 12th century, when Greek texts were re-introduced from the Islamic world (along with newer scholarship).

Both civilizations were of course influenced by Greece, but direct intellectual influence was initially much stronger in the Islamic world were Greek texts were more widely known and studied.

Keep in mind I said 'initially'. I'm saying that Islamic civilization had more Greek influence early on, while the West had comparatively little. Things became more balanced in the High Middle Ages and Renaissance.

Politics, democracy, philosophy and dramaturgy (as we know it).

This. The ancient Greeks copied all advanced arts and sciences from Egypt and Mesopotamia. The "orientals" were the true founders of modern European culture.

>Greeks didn't put their own unique spin on these things enough to make it their own
Autism everyone.

Dont be that kind of cunt

That's like asking why Shakespeare is considered English literature.

Because Rome aped them, and Franks aped Rome, and so on and so forth.

Kike detected. Yesterday was holocaust remembrance day, no? Perhaps you should have remembered to jump in an oven so I wouldn't have to read your subversive bullshit today.

Because without WE WUZing Greeks, westerners dont have anything to claim for an ancient civilization

Yeah no. "Science", "Philosophy" were all concepts known to eastern civilizations well before Greeks

Because the Romans adopted many of their religious, political, and social practices, making it the core of western civilization.

Why was Greece so gay?

this post shows you have no true understanding of science

did Einstein "copy" Newton?

the Mathematics that we know today are mainly that of Greek based formal mathematics..Euclid was the first one to create an axiomatic deductive system

Eastern civilizations pre-Greece used math more as a practical tool for engineering purposes

>Skipping from Alexander the Great to Christianity
>Not mentioning the Greek conquest of Judea which caused a codification and reworking of Judaism and ultimately led to the hybrid Hellenic/Levantine spiritual environment where people like Paul and the other Church fathers could have existed.
>Not mentioning the Reformation
>Thinking the Crusades are even historically relevant
kys senpai

You're at least right that Christianity = Platonism, but for all the wrong reasons.

The crusades are historically relevant as far as corruption in the church and religion goes.

>formal mathematics
Greeks didn't do formal mathematics.

Most modern math is a successor of the informal mathematical system that the Greeks had, wherein one mathematician will convince other mathematicians with an informal argument (called a proof).

Formal mathematics is mostly just autismal symbol pushing with a mild philosophical, logical and linguistic component. It is a completely modern invention.

thats why Euclid's Elements was literally the most popular mathematical text book for over 2000 years

you have no idea what you are talking about

No, you don't know what you're talking about. Greeks didn't have a notion of formal languages, or rigorous formal proof like we do now. They also didn't have a logical calculus, or any symbolic mathematical system. Without any of these things, you literally cannot have formal mathematics.

if thats the case, then you can say there were no such thing as mathematics until Cauchy

Formal mathematics =/= mathematics you fucking retard.

And yeah, formal mathematics wasn't a thing until HILBERT.

fine......regardless, the fact still stands that modern mathematics is based mostly on the greek model compared to the egyptian or other near east civilizations

Ancient civilizations were sexually degenerated! I am glad that the new religions taught them the holy (Abrahamic) lesson!