Joseph Smith and Mormonism

What is Veeky Forums opinion on this guy and his religion?

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he struck gold with his spooks, very lucky

He was a pretty cool dude even if his story is full of holes and is strange to outsiders. Utah Mormon here AMA

Convicted scam artist and racist who quite literally invented his own religion by talking to his semi-retarded friend through a tophat.

Also didn't accept the trinity, which is a corner stone of the Christian faith. But we all have to pretend they're just as legitimate a branch of Christianity as all the others, every presidential election year.

What's your favorite edition of the Nauvoo Expositor?

It always struck me as odd that it ever caught on and that its still so popular. I can understand getting people to believe in events that may or may not have happened thousands of years before in ancient times, but how the hell can you explain something like ancient Israelites traveling to the Americas by boat?

I'm no expert on the religion, the most I ever learned about it was from going on a few dates with a Mormon girl in HS, so I don't wanna shit on it unfairly, but Mormons are just so strange to me.

>and racist
He admitted niggers into the church. It was BY who was racist you absolute low IQ nigger piece of shit.

That first one was pretty good.

>The Book of Mormon portrays the Lamanites as usually dark-skinned, wicked rivals to the usually lighter-skinned, righteous Nephites, both of whom are portrayed as descendants of Israelites who traveled to the New World by boat circa 600 BC. (Other groups from the book include the Jaredites, and Mulekites.) Historically, Mormons have identified the Lamanites as the indigenous peoples of the Americas and the Polynesians, or some part of their ancestors.
All righty.

He was the Trump of the 19th century. A con-artist that got a following of retards. Sad!

>Yo man so a bunch of Hebrews crossed the Atlantic and founded a sprawling empire from a population of only a hundred or so people.
>They had Elephants and steel swords and everything
>And after Jesus died he came to them and taught them
>But later a bunch of darkies killed all the white and delightsome people
>They even had this huge battle where millions died near a hill where I live.
>Also I'm fucking these dudes wives, but don't tell my wife.
>And don't tell the press or I'll murder you
>Also tea is bad but slaves are okay

Who do you believe killed Oramel Howland, his brother Seneca and Bill Dunn during the Powell Expedition of 1869? Do you believe they were killed by Shivwit Indians or instead by Mormons who mistook them for spies?

false

Black people weren't allowed in the church until the 1960s

Actually it wasn't until 1978 that black men were allowed to hold priesthood possistions in the LDS church.
>Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species and put them on a national equalization.
That's pretty racist. He was also fine with slavery and before you start talking about Elijah Abel you should know he was 1/8 black and could pass easily. Also at a conference in June 1843, apostles John E. Page, Orson Pratt, and Heber C. Kimball's brought up for discussion Elijah Abel's unique status as the only black priesthood holder of the Church. It was then decided that he was not allowed to perform publicly. So it looks like that the ban was always policy, but that one guy was mistaken for white and thus allowed in.

>>The Book of Mormon portrays the Lamanites as usually dark-skinned, wicked rivals to the usually lighter-skinned, righteous Nephites, both of whom are portrayed as descendants of Israelites who traveled to the New World by boat circa 600 BC. (Other groups from the book include the Jaredites, and Mulekites.) Historically, Mormons have identified the Lamanites as the indigenous peoples of the Americas and the Polynesians, or some part of their ancestors.
Even the bible portrays dark people as savages and beast do your godamn research
False. It was BY who put the ban on negros. Joseph Smith had name some nigger priests. Make your goddamn research

Joseph Smith was called a prophet
dum dum dum dum dum

>Having learned with extreme regret, that an article entitled, 'Free People of Color,' in the last number of the Star has been misunderstood, we feel in duty bound to state, in this Extra, that our intention was not only to stop free people of color from emigrating to this state, but to prevent them from being admitted as members of the Church.

From volume one chapter 29 page 407. Maybe you should do some research.

>how the hell can you explain something like ancient Israelites traveling to the Americas by boat?
It was a pretty popular theory at the time, actually. One of the big mysteries to many early Americans was the presence of Native American mounds east of the Mississippi river. Because the white settlers refused to believe that Natives had made them, they came up with all kinds of weird explanations as to who built them. One of the most popular explanations was that a lost tribe of Israel had done it. Smith just took that already popular idea and used it as part of his religion.

Kinda nuts, but very nice people.
I like them.

The Bible is often racist as well. That doesn't mean the Book of Mormon isn't any less racist because of it.

They are very nice people, especially when they cut off family members for leaving the church.

>racist
Why is this an issue? Literally everyone was racist, then.
It's not like he was part of the KKK.

>mfw a mormon makes fun of scientology and says Ron Hubbard was a scam artist

So? If my family member suddenly decided on going to Hell, I wouldn't be too happy, either.

Probably because the KKK didn't exist yet.

What holes are his story full of? And don't you think the modern prophets are a waste of time? That's my biggest problem with their church I think, that their so-called prophets don't speak to God per se. They just talk a lot and wear pants. But if they didn't wear pants I would respect them a lot.

>mfw a chirstian makes fun of mormonism and says joseph smith was a scam artist

I'm in the process of converting. Don't really care about the historicity of the book of Mormon. They're good people and a good church. I also happen to agree with them theologically. The book of Mormon has a very good message and seems to me an inspired text regardless of whether the narratives are historically accurate or not. Jesus said "ye shall know them by their fruits" and the fruits of the LDS church seem to me among the best of any church on Earth. I hope to marry a nice, conservative Mormon girl and raise a bunch of pious and happy blonde children with her.

His whole first vision account for one. The first written version of the account by Joseph was not given until 12 years after it supposedly took place. When he first penned the account, Joseph only mentioned one person visiting him, which is no small detail to be mistaken about.There are now known at least nine different accounts relating the First Vision with varying degrees of changes and circumstances.

Changes like his age from 16 to 15 to 14. The reason or motive for seeking divine help changes - from (1) no motive (a spirit appears with the news of gold plates),(2) Bible reading and conviction of sins, (3) a revival, and (4)a desire to know if God existed. Who appeared to him?–(1) a spirit, (2)an angel,(3) two angels,(4) Jesus, (5)many angels, and finally, (6) the Father and the Son. The last part is important because they also coincided with the changing Christology from a modalist perspective to a rejection of Trinitarian thought altogether in the 1840s

If you wanted to bring them back into the fold in the most petty and least effective way, go for it.

But there isn't one, so everyone's happy.

Why are you one Veeky Forums then? This seems like the most tame board i've seen on here but still.

Since 1984, the LDS Church has donated nearly $750 million in cash and goods to people in need in more than 150 countries." That averages to $37.5 mil per year or about $3-$4 per Mormon member went to the poor. The total of $750 million in 22 years spent in cash and goods to people in need is only a small fraction of what the church spent on a mall they built in Salt Lake City.

The best estimates are that the church's assets are around $100 billion and that tithing runs $4.5-6.5 billion per year. But no matter how you slice it, humanitarian work is a small part of church expenditures.

Their fruits are rotten

I see, thanks. What do you think of the Trinity then, and why stick to a church with such flawed roots?

Veeky Forums is a mormon board user...

Complete fraud who was rightfully killed after all the bullshit he pulled.

Why there exists Mormons today following such a patently false religion is beyond me, but this is a country of liberty after all. Shit like the magic underwear is really bizzare, but I guess it's better than the creeps who handle snakes.

I'm not the initial person I was just answering. I myself left the church about ten years back. Fun fact when I first learned about the trinity from a neighbor kid I thought he was pulling my leg like I couldn't believe that it was a real idea it was just alien to me. Granted I was seven at the time.

Also I personally know some people still in the church even they don't follow the line. Some because of family, others because of historical cultural connection, others who want to reform it, and then there's this guy who wants a waifu in a prairie dress.

And how much do they spend on the upkeep of their meeting houses and temples, how much on printing books that are freely distributed, how much on church events and educational programs? They appear to me to be clearly constructing God's kingdom on Earth. I don't really have any problem with their finances. I would not expect humanitarian donations to be along their largest expenditures anyway. Their fruits are good in that they are a community of decent, relatively happy people, who I tend to agree with politically, culturally, and philosophically. In other words, I think they're not such a bad people to hang around.

I don't follow. Why should I not be?

Raised in a Mormon family in Texas, I have visited the Salt Lake City Temple, and been baptized for other people. AMA

The early Mormons were brutal even for their time and a lot of the violence they inflicted on others is covered up when we learn our history. It wasn't until recently that I learned about their skirmishes with Indians, frontiersmen and all the issues they had with the US government. So yeah the mistrust of any non-Mormon and the fear of being attacked from all fronts probably lead to mass paranoia and then murder cover ups.
He had trouble keeping consistency with the first vision which lead to a lot of controversy when his personal writings got out. The biggest issue was he wrote that he only saw one figure appear to him when his story went that he saw two figures, God the Father and Jesus the Son. It was interpreted as he saw them as one at first with God and Jesus becoming two and the Holy Spirit not taking a form, but still being present. And I feel similar about the Prophets, but I think of them like the Pope. They pray and God speaks to them less directly and more through divine revelation. More importantly the church needs a leader and if it were left up to the apostles to govern, the church would have collapsed a while ago. I think this way it keeps anyone official from breaking off and taking followers with him. It didn't stop the FLDS, but they were leaving no matter what.

As the financial books of the Church are not subject to inspection by the members or anyone else, no one can detail what exactly the Church spends its money on and how much of what they take in each year is spent running the Church and how much is invested in non-ecclesiastical assets.

However almost all of the Church facilities are run by unpaid volunteers on church missions so that drives down the costs considerably. BYU is expensive but of course students pay tuition. Given the enormous revenues the church takes in each year, estimated above at some $6-$8 Billion, it's seems quite apparent that they cannot spend anywhere close to that on an annual basis in building expenses and the other items mentioned above. The church has very little expense in relation to its income. The tithing money it receives is all tax-free. The property is exempt from taxes. The church owns virtually all of its properties so it doesn't have to pay rent. The utilities on those buildings and the meager funds allotted to the wards for their discretionary budget funds are just a drop in the bucket compared to its income.

Also your future waifu will require you to go a mission for 18-24 months give 10% of your income to tithing. Well if you want a conservative one anyone a jack mormon lady might be more flexible. Also she will divorce you if you look at pornography or leave the church.

Ty, ty.

Did you go on a mission? Have you ever had any visions?

I had a series of visions related to the book of Mormon before I ever gave a shit about Mormonism, and it's my primary motivation for conversion. I thought people in the church would think I was crazy but all the Mormons I've talked to about it seem to think it's totally normal. Another convert told me he experienced the same thing.

do you wear weird underpants?

>I had a series of visions related to the book of Mormon before I ever gave a shit about Mormonism, and it's my primary motivation for conversion. I thought people in the church would think I was crazy but all the Mormons I've talked to about it seem to think it's totally normal. Another convert told me he experienced the same thing.
You need help dude.

This is a good Mormon history podcast. The host is an ex-mormon and it's very thorough.

nakedmormonismpodcast.com/

Nah, that's only if you're endowed (it's a special ceremony in the LDS Church). I abandoned the church before I married (there's this special ceremony for Mormon married couples where they get married again in the temple, and they need to be endowed to do it), so I'm long gone man.

I understand your reaction. It's easy to deny the religious experiences of others until you have one yourself.