Austria-Hungary

Any chimp can play human for a day.
Use his opposable thumbs to iron his uniform,
And run for office on election day,
Fancy himself a real decision maker,
And deploy more troops than salt shakers.

But it's a jungle when war is made,
And you'll panic and throw your own shit at the enemy.
The camera pulls back to reveal your true identity.
Look, it's a sheep in wolf's clothing.
A smoking gun holding ape.

Any asshole can open up a museum.
Put all of the things he loves on display
So everyone could see them.
The house, a car, a thoughtful wife
Ordinary moments in his ordinary life.

But if she breaks a smile, she'll give you away
Cause no one wants to pay to see your happiness.
No one wants to pay to see your day to day
And I'm not buying it either
But I'll try selling it anyway.

Any idiot can play Greek for a day
And join a sorority or write a tragedy
And articulating all that pain
And maybe you'll get paid.

But it's a sin when success complains,
And your writers block-it don't mean shit.
Just throw it against the wall and see what sticks.
Gotta write a hit
I think this is it.
It's a hit.

And if it's not,
Then it's a holiday for hanging
Yeah it's a holiday for hanging
Yeah it's a holiday for hanging
Yeah it's a holiday for hanging
Yeah shoo-bop-shoo-bop my baby

Any fool can play executioner for a day,
And say with fingers pointed in both directions
'he went thataway',
It's only a switch or syringe,
Aww, exempt from eternal sins.
But you still wear a cross,
And you think you're gonna get in.

The Slavic dissent in Austria-Hungary is by far the most overexaggerated meme about that country. The only people who were actually willing to organize an armed opposition and a coherent irredentist movement were the Serbs. The Croats, the Czechs, the Slovaks, the Rusyns and Ukrainians, most of them didn't give a single fuck and all the so-called independence movements were marginal and irrelevant organizations led by a handful of butthurt expatriates that never gained any traction in the mainstream.

It would have fallen into civil war within a decade in the event of a moderate peace deal. Hundreds of thousands dead for almost nothing, the main advocate of federalism (Franz Ferdinand himself) dead, and the Czechoslovak Legion probably stirring up shit too.

By the end of the war basically everyone in the empire was on board with federalism, even the Hungarians who came up with their "Little Switzerland" model to organize Hungary on the principle of ethnic cantons.

I always love the memers who say multi-ethnic countries can't work and then just conveniently ignore that the UK, France and Switzerland exist. How come Switzerland or UK didn't magically implode with the rise of European nationalism? Right, they didn't lose a world war.

That federalism should have been in place since 1867. And the Hungarian plan means nothing since those ethnic groups wanted complete separation from that country in the first place, and even the federalist plan for Austria called for separate states, not just "cantons". be Transylvania and Croatia were separate from Hungary before 1867.

>France
That's a bad example. France had a strong policy against regional and ethnic identities. It contained many cultures, yes, but it wasn't multicultural at all.

retarded on o many levels

>That federalism should have been in place since 1867.
No, the compromise should've never happened to begin with and Habsburgs should've adhered to the original Metternich position that nationalism is a load of liberal leftist horseshit.

Hindsight is 20/20 but even Ausgleich was something Hungarians themselves waited for 200 years, involving 2 major revolts and plethora of cultural and political protest, despite backed up by what was half of Habsburg Empire and a history of sovereignity, traditions and institutions they could rely on.

And even still it required Austria getting into the worst geopolitical position since Habsburgs rose to throne for Franzie and his ministers to inititate talks in 1866.

By extensions Croats nailed a similar deal with Hungarian, again because they had their political and cultural weight, despite that Croats were lesser in number than Slovaks and Romanian.

can we do it?

Hungarians were organizing hard after Königratz mate. Austria was in a checkmate, they couldn't continue their absolutist rule.

>200 years
Try 100, more or less. Hungarian nationalism was actually economic and religious and not ethnic in origins - it started when Habsburgs pushed extreme counter-reformation, which favored only Hungarian Catholic noblemen who became insanely rich and powerful magnates under Austrian rule and became increasingly culturally German. This made the poorer Hungarian Calvinist snd Lutheran gentry mad and it eventually spiraled into nationalist sentiments.

>inb4 anti-Habsburg Hungarian uprisings
Basically 99% of them were motivated by religious rights and economy, hence why a shitload of troops in Bethlen or Thokoly's armies were Protestant Slavs or even Germans.

I don't include the Ottoman war times because at time Hungary was fragmented and one can hardly speak of a single Hungarian goal.

>Hungary rebels countless times against the crown
>is rewarded with independence in internal matters and large territories

>Croats, Slovaks, Romanians are loyal to the crown and fight to preserve the Empire
>forced to simply accept Hungarian rule

Really makes you think.

Pan-Slavic ideology fueled by Russia

In fairness more Slovaks fought for Kossuth than for the Emperor in 1848.
Fun fact, a lot of them emigrated to the USA and fought for the Union during the Civil War later on.

For World War I specifically, too many fronts to hold down and secure that drained manpower fast, and a less-disciplined army than that of the Germans.

First was the Russians advancing in the East that had to be beaten back, Serbia to the south that put up a shockingly effective defense and only broke due to the entry of Bulgaria on their eastern flank, and then the Italians in the Alps who were honestly Austria-Hungary's biggest problem as they inflicted more casualties on them than the Russians, but were given less priority. They didn't even stage an offensive against them until November 1917.

Austria-Hungary did manage to nail down the Russians and later the Romanians as well as the Serbs, but by the time they were able to focus solely on Italy, the army was scratching the bottom of their reserves, and tension on the home front flared up with constant food shortages and other tensions rising, causing the empire to implode in the final months of the war in the face of Italian victories, renewed offensives on the Serbian front from Greece, and the population at home just being plain sick of the war and the sacrifices made.

>What went wrong?
Multi-kulti went wrong.
Multi-kulti never works.
Western countries will soon have a civil war with the imported savages in their homes.

Friendly reminder that the Holy Roman Empire lasted 1000 years

>
>
>

>Multikulti.
Except it wasn't. It was a fucking Empire. Learn the difference, /pol/shit.

No :3

Meme answer or not?

yes meme

>Austria-Hungary
>multicultural

Top lel, if anything it was bicultural. If the empire had actually been multicultural, it would have given fair representation to every ethnicity and would maybe still be around today.

>"Whilst soldiers elsewhere are taught to love their homelands, lack of patriotism is held to be the greatest military virtue in this unfortunate monarchy. With us military education culminates in all national feeling being driven out of our soldiers... The Austrian and the Hungarian soldiers possess no fatherland; they only have a war lord."

Jews, Anglos and Turkroaches are to blame.

> (You)
>>Multikulti.
>Except it wasn't. It was a fucking Empire. Learn the difference, /pol/shit
>empire
You dont know shit about Austro-Hungary, you stupid cunt. My ancestors lived in it.
It had insanely ineffective burocracy & justice system. It's no coincidence "The Trial" was written by Kafka. (I bet you never even heard about that book or author. The only thing they teach in the West now, is how to suck muslim cock and take nigger dicks in the ass.)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Kafka
It had the highest taxation in the entire western world at that time, and it was insanely ineffective. It had constant faminas in Galicja - despite controlling one of the most fertile soil in the world. Faminas! In the late 19 century! In the middle of Europe!
It was controlled by german minority (16%) that was extremly racist twards the rest of the 'empire' nations. Giving civil rights to hungarians didn't help much - all the other minorities ware still excluded.
It was a peace of shit state, and it's awsome that it died after 1918, giving freedom to all the nations that ware it's victims.
> (You)
>>Austria-Hungary
>>multicultural
> and would maybe still be around today.
Yea, because Franse, UK, Germany, Italy, Sweden, are so very stable now, that they imported millions of foreigners and gave them voting rights. Super stable states, bitch.

This

Fuck off you clueless, uneducated, American nigger. Switzerland or UK is multiethnic and works perfectly fine, Austria-Hungary was destroyed from outside, not from within.

>unironically equating various Europeans living in one state to importing Arabs and niggers
Liberalism was a mistake

Im Czechish, you fagot. Austro-Hungary was a shit-tier 'empire'. l[m guessing you're some butthurt Austrian 'hurr durr, muh empire'.

t. butthurt slavic cunt

>Contrary to popular belief it seems that if the allies had accepted the peace from Karl the empire would have federated and survived.

This desu, people should really read some of the modern interpretations on the stability of the Hapsburg Empire ('Ring of Steel' has some good insights on pre/mid-war AH). Its becoming pretty clear that the "internally despised, doomed to fail" narrative was heavily influenced by Entente propaganda. It was part of a narrative that was created to accelerate internal divisions and then justify the postwar dismemberment.

You faggots go too far in the opposite direction. Just because the memes that A-H was on the verge of collapse before the war are false, doesn't mean it was doing fine.

To say it was just forcibly dissolved by the Entente is overly simplistic: by 1918, there was plenty of popular support among Czechs, Poles, South Slavs, Romanians etc. for the dissolution of the monarchy. In 1914, there wasn't, but it wasn't because they loved the status quo of the Empire, but because they figured (correctly, as it turned out) that they weren't large enough to survive on their own and would be safer in a federal state. Their loyalty was utilitarian, which is not as stable a basis for a state as genuine attachment.

Also, federalism wasn't some easy solution. The Hungarians were unlikely to accept it, which is why even in October 1918 when Karl produced his federation scheme it didn't even include the Hungarian half of the monarchy. It's definitely possible some deal could have been worked out, but it's just as possible that if they tried to federate Hungary would split. It came close to happening in 1905/6.

Austria-Hungary got the Jews into supporting a traditionalist, Catholic, European monarchy.

If you are not an anti-semitic who spend years studying the Jewish question and gradually assimilating the Jewish Bolshevik theory so much that you consider even Jewish capitalists like Milton Friedman to be crypto-communists, you wouldn't understand the shock of reading someone like Stefan Zweig and Joseph Roth writing with nostalgia about Austria-Hungary.

I frankly can't understand that in my worldview.

I'd say that up to early 1917 the survival of the Empire was highly probable, as it featured in French peace plans until Wilson's 10 Points were announced. By 1918, the repeated defeats and material hardship overcame the constituents of the Empire. I never said that the Empire was totally without serious issues, I merely agreed with the other posters you mentioned that the pervasive 'Inevitable Death of AH' meme is ahistorical. No need to call anyone a faggot.

That was actually something that I remember reading about. It blew my mind when I learned how popular AH was amongst Central European Jews who had lived in it.

Though to be fair, this could also be a rose-tinted glasses issue; the treatment many of them lived to endure postwar created an overwhelming fondness for AH.

I apologize for calling you a faggot, but I'm getting a little tired of the reactionary memeposters constantly praising A-H and pretending it had no problems until the big bad Allies came and killed it.

Whether or not the Empire would have survived is impossible to know. What is clear, though, is that even before 1914, most of its citizens were not truly loyal. They were looking out, first and foremost, for the interests of their own ethnic group, Before 1914, it happened that their interests were best served by keeping the monarchy together. Due to defeat in war, this became not the case. Who is to say those calculations would not have changed due to some other reason at some point in the future?

German Jews were also extremely patriotic too and the defeat and Versailles settlement was as shocking to them as to other Germans.

Is it really that surprising? In a multi-ethnic state like the Habsburg Empire, a Jew could find a place by being loyal to the state, but in a nation-state which defines itself by ethnicity, they are automatically excluded.

German Jews actually volunteered for the military at higher rates than non-Jewish Germans during WWI. The German Army commissioned a study which showed this, but they didn't like the result so they suppressed it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenzählung

>"My strongest experience was the War and the destruction of my fatherland, the only one I ever had, the Dual Monarchy of Austria-Hungary."

That's coming from a Jew. It's as shocking as a Black Panther saying: "know what, I love America".

There was a small war which started after the Archduke's nephew got shot

>It's as shocking as a Black Panther saying: "know what, I love America".
How is that remotely equivalent? Black Panthers hate America because they think it has been historically racist, but Austria-Hungary was never particularly anti-Semitic. Post-1867, Jews had equal rights.

Jes have been historically anti-Christian, anti-Monarchist and anti-traditionalist.

Austria-Hungary was all those things.

Agreed. It seems to have quite a bit to do with the long-term results of Joseph II's efforts to ease legal restrictions on Jews in the Empire, combined with Franz Joseph's own friendliness towards his Empire's Jewish community.

>anti-traditionalist
that's flat-out wrong historically.
>anti-Monarchist
[citation needed]
>anti-Christian
possibly, but if they did so they hated it no more than other religions. their hatred was probably contingent on the historical period anyway.

Germany did not nearly have as many domestic problems when it came to different nationalistic groups. AH failed because it was not close to unified, they had to accommodate Serbs, Romanians, Magyars, Slavs, Bosnians, Pols, and Czecks all under one empire. You just can't maintain that in an age of nationalism and liberalism.

This, radical nationalists even called Franz Josef Judenkaiser.

>That's coming from a Jew.
Jews have a tendency to like living under oppresive tyrany. As long as the tyrant opresses them less than other ethnic groups. Thatsh why they loved living in German Empire, Russian Empire, Austro-Hungarian empire, British Empire, Ottoman Empire, and Soviet Union.
And in l those cases, they either rose in wealth or power, or both, usually at the expense of ethnic groups currently abused by the tyrany.
You guys are nostalgic about A-H because of it's late ruller, Franz Joseph I, who really was an ok guy.
You completly ignore how this tyrant of nations was run before.
An you ignore arguments presented earlier - gigantic, ineffective beurocracy(400.000 beurocrats with 45.5million people!), very high taxation, under-developement, and even faminas (in Galicia, 50% of children died before reaching age of 5! What kind of 'empire' allows that!).
Also, supporting A-H means that you decline right to have their own countries to all those nations, who lived under Austro-Hungarian rule.
So I'm guessing most of the A-H supporters here must be austrian or german.
If that's the case, I have only one thing to say to you:
Enjoy your muslims, you blood thirsty, tyranical shits.
Im glad you are dying out (35% of children aged 0-5 are born to immigrant families in germany).

> (OP)
>Germany did not nearly have as many domestic problems when it came to different nationalistic groups.
Because they brutally dxterminated & germanised everyone who resisted.
Germany had numerous minorities to, at some point, poles made 50% of Prussia population.
In AH there ware simply not enough germans to do the same. And they ware less brutal than the prussians.
But eventually, even Germany has failed:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Września_children_strike

Name me one European Republic which wasn't influenced by Jews

>Austria-Hungary
>oppressive tyranny
I chortled

>Name me one European Republic which wasn't influenced by Jews
just because jews got involved in politics of republics isn't the same thing as being anti-monarchical, retard

>oppressive tyranny
>Franz Joseph was an ok guy
You do realize Franz Joseph was one of the only two monarchs Austria-Hungary ever had, with the other one ruling for just a few years?

>journalist finds out a major figure of the A-H military intelligence has been blackmailed for years by the russians over his homosexuality and has betrayed state secrets
>franz joseph orders him arrested before he publicizes the story and humiliates the military
>chief of viennese police tells the emperor of austria-hungary, king of hungary, croatia and bohemia, duke of so on and so forth, "but that isn't illegal sir, so tough break"
>story is published

The Dual Monarchy had many many MANY faults, but calling it tyrannical is plainly wrong.

I don't know what's crawled up your asshole, but this post is a mess of contradictions and outright nonsense.

>Switzerland or UK is multiethnic and works perfectly fine
are you on drugs

Switzerland
>Italians
>Germans
>French
>Romansch

UK
>English
>Welsh
>Scottish
>Irish
>Cornish

Are you? See

Can anyone even compete?

>UK
>>English
>>Welsh
>>Scottish
>>Irish
>>Cornish
Is this a joke?

No you don't understand see Cornish culture is completely different from the rest of England because they call a pasty an oggie oggie.

Venice, Genoa, Lucca

The Hungarians ruled their half of the empire with an iron fist and were trying to forcefully convert their minorities to Magyar language and culture. The Austrian half couldn't force the Hungarian half to stop, nor could they let up too much on their own minorities without giving ideas to the Hungarians' minorities and thereby pissing off Hungary. They were essentially paralyzed because they couldn't do anything without pissing off too many people, so preserving the status quo was their only option

Pan-Slavic propaganda.

Name any minority from that era that was less oppressed than Slavs or Romanians in Hungary.

The eternal dago, everybody

>/pol/ in charge of history

This, it's mostly postwar propaganda.

>make someone learn the official language in the nation
>WAAAAAAAAH CULTURAL GENOCIDE
Top kek

t. Slovak

Hypothesis: a united AH would have prevented WW2

Too many different cultures.
Nationalism.

The GE kicked ass because it was 99% Germans and a few Poles.

Prussia's policy towards polish minority was pretty much logical, why on Earth would they endorse polish nationalism?
>at some point, poles made 50% of Prussia population
Luckily for Prussians, Napoleon stripped them of that burden in Tilsit
>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonization

Refusal of Austro-Slavism and the 1867 Austro-Hungarian Compromise.