Can China ever be a superpower again like the old days? Because when I go there...

>western media is peddling fiction

Nothing new.

itt: ching chong

washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/28/you-may-never-eat-street-food-in-china-again-after-watching-this-video/

Dude. There's a difference between your armchair predictions based on shiny skylines and actually being there on the ground.
You've never even been there I bet. Or you're some Shanghai expat. Well guess what, first tier city boy, China isn't this hub. What you see outside the city center ( 99,999 % ) is still the same destituted hellhole as it was before in the 90's.

And the mentality, most importantly, of the Chinese isn't fit for superpower status. Even 5 decades from now.
They literally throw themselves in front of cars in order to make a buck. Hell, they're fucking breathing in almost literal bricks of dust in order to MAKE MONAY.
It makes Jewish moneygrubbing look like frugality compared to what they're pulling off there.

Excuse me, but not even Japan, Korea or Taiwan had this level of "scam the fuck out of my fellow man" mentality when they were developing. And they knew how to fight corruption, not Xi's current smokescreen campaign to remove Jiang Zemin's faction.

This is something limited to the mainland Chinese.

People commit insurance fraud and work in hazardous environments in the West too, user.
The only reason we have safety regulations and shit is because we don't have as many disposable warm bodies as China.

The mainland Chinese have zero solidarity to anyone not in their family, the mentality is that they believe they are in a fight with everyone else to survive. I do not think that will change.

Gangster-states that have given up pretending they subscribe to any higher virtues than rinsing the environment/citizen/other countries as much as they can get away with is the future, though. The US and the UK were exactly like this, they just had myths about civilisation and progress to pacify theie citizens and the competition, China amd Russia just does what we do but uses overt threats rather than deception.

>Gdp doesn't mean good infrastructures nor well being
Uh oh. Don't say that. The materialist will come out of their mom's basement and throw a hissy fit.

>Dude. There's a difference between your armchair predictions based on shiny skylines and actually being there on the ground.

ANY DAY NOW

He didn't say "China will collapse," he said "China will not Advance any further," does it sound the same to you?

>He didn't say "China will collapse," he said "China will not Advance any further," does it sound the same to you?

Both are just wishful thinking by Americans.

>STEM
>having value to anyone except a select few

Go back to your mudhut, caveman.

This thread violates the 25 year rule, but I felt like replying to it anyway.
>Can China ever be a superpower again like the old days?
How far off are "the old days?" Because China has been growing as a world superpower ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms. Even if living standards were pitiful, it still had the largest army in the world in terms of manpower.
>Hear from friends they eat literal cats in their family.
This sort of thing only happens in Guangxi and Guangdong, and it's not out of desperation, it's just what people eat there. Wouldn't you think Muslim countries would be similarly aghast at how Westerners eat pigs on a regular basis?
>Honestly, it looks like some Babylon AD world where you have hi-tech mixed in with urban decay.
You could say that for virtually every single nation that has poor and rural countryside and rich and thriving cities.

I too had cigarettes stolen by airport personnel, damn them to hell.

What the fuck? Not a super power, not even greater power.

One move by the US and PRC's export will come crushing down and the soon-hungry 'middle-class' of the mainland will do the same thing as hungry students in the '89.

>One move by the US and PRC's export will come crushing down

and thereby triggering the economic equivalent of MAD.

jesus christ, i cant believe i live in the same country as people who think causing a global economic crisis by committing economic and political sudoku is some kind of leverage.

i wouldnt be surprised if you're the same fucking idiots that thought not raising the debt ceiling back in 2011 was a viable course of action.

i'd tell you to go kill yourselves, but you'd probably screw that up somehow.

I mean, low standards of living and potential to be a superpower or even being a superpower aren't mutually exclusive. Ever read anything Charles Dickens? Or like, hear about the what the United States a couple years before WWII?

>jesus christ, i cant believe i live in the same country
And what country is that?

World market can't fair without production of PRC?
If that is so, then I quess that no 'world market' existed before the early 90's.

They're just the anti-USA, so they're constantly championed as "going to take them over" someday

The truth is that 90% of them work mindless factory or rural jobs and the other 10% just copy off of and try to emulate the rest of the developed world and they are more than likely hopelessly attached to America's success (or lack thereof)

Not an argument, China has 1 billion plus something souls in it with a culture favoring working to the bone, of course they're gonna have more STEM graduates than countries that do not share similar qualities.

[Citations needed]

Protip: China today has a higher GDP per capita and HDI than America did in 1970 when it was a superpower.

In no way does quality of life affect the capability of a nation to become a superpower.
That doesn't mean I think China will be a superpower or that it is great or that it has no problems. But you fucking retards keep equating "power" with "are the people poor?"

Despite your clear racism and stereotyping, poor people do "bad" things because they are desperate. Not because they are necessarily "bad".

>If that is so, then I quess that no 'world market' existed before the early 90's
Jesus Christ you are a retard if you think this is a logical conclusion.

Do you actually think the world economy is the same as it was in the early 90's?

>Despite your clear racism and stereotyping
The OP is clearly of Chinese decent calling out what he sees as flaws in his own people. I've never heard a non-Chinese criticize "mainlanders" before.

Not even sure what this madpost is trying to say

>never heard
Then you are obviously not listening.

That your people don't have to be rich or "good" for your nation to be a superpower.
OP is claiming they have to be rich and morally "good".

yeah but 150 years ago wasn't London just as much of a shithole?

If china can break the SCS containment zone it becomes a superpower. Your economic size didn't make you a superpower. The reach and effectiveness of your nukes make you a superpower. Russia is still a superpower. China will likely become a superpower once they figure out how to get nuke subs past our detection nets or build way more ICBMS. The USA is a superpower because the reach of it's military extends to every corner of the globe. If economic size was the only requirement fucking Germany and japan would be superpowers.

that's just their way of telling you to quit, they care about you user

>Can China ever be a superpower again like the old days?
It never was a superpower you dumbfucking nigger. And yes.

>Because when I go there, I seriously doubt they'll be anything more than what they are now.
Then you are retarded. Many people said the same in 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, and 2010.
>Where does this meme come from?
What meme? Reality and facts are not a meme.
>Do the journalists/columnists saying this really believe this when they go there?
Some clearly do. For example, the IMF, World Bank, Goldman Sachs, PWC, Deloitte, and Bank of America.

Do you acrually believe someone has to "go there" to "believe"?

>t. Dumbfuck

>Or like, hear about the what the United States a couple years before WWII?
US had the highest standards of living in the world by miles.

>reading comprehension

China is not a superpower nor it was ever considered as one during the Cold Wars. However, China is considered a "Potential Superpower" though.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_superpowers

>being actually retarded

The rest of the world is growing with China, pound for pound they are still poorer than Brazil. Their population advantage is not as great as it was in the past.

China could gain a technological advantage as Britain did in the early 19th century, maybe they will be the only ones willing to implement genetic modification on humans or something. I don't see why they would be the only ones with the ability or economic capacity to implement some new technology though.

China could be the only region largely unscathed after a world war like the US in the mid 20th century. However the causes of such a war (global economic depression) and the effects of nuclear war will likely affect China too.

So if China wants to get ahead it needs to pour everything into technology. It needs to give up its fetish for massive construction projects that look good on paper but in reality are very poor investments and start fetishizing science, as in real science, not bunk studies that no one else can repeat. I have mixed feelings on Shanghai cram schools, they certainly equip people with excellent skills and knowledge, but do they develop an inner critic and the agency needed to operate alone without a teacher telling them what is right and wrong?

>World market can't fair without production of PRC?
>I quess that no 'world market' existed before the early 90's.

you idiots literally have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and it's the best kind of entertainment to see you people make yourself look like jackasses in public and on the internet. no wonder TV is dying, they simply can't write shows more hilarious than the shit you actually believe.

Holy shit. SK and taiwans development wete notoriously corrupt. Early japanese development and even post war boom was essentially a huge synergy between govt and business i.e. Large scale favoritism and nepotism. The "miracle" is thay in spite of this huge siphoning of wealth these economies grew at the pace they did

Your post was completely irrelevant. I only stated that the US in 1950 was really backwards and poor by today's standards.

dumb smogposter

Don't expect ignorant fucks who never have actually read studies on international development economics to know that.

>I only stated that the US in 1950 was really backwards and poor by today's standards.

>an industralized country is not as advanced as a post-industrialized country

REALLY MAKES THE NEURONS POP

Then why the fuck did you respond to my post herewith this irrelevant shitpost

Never going to happen.

i'm not even the fag talking to you, i'm just pointing out that you made a useless post.

That massive constructiom has beem great though. I evem read an economist article reading that it was a net good overall. I only wish murrica poured as much money into roads bridges and a huge network of high speed railways. Part of fetishizing technology and promotibg its innovation is acclerating infrastructure abd communications networks through stuff like a nationwide fiber optic network

>country with a billion people in it has more graduates than countries that don't have a billion people in it

really makes you think

I dont get it. Why? Just to save on oil costs?

The difference between the US 150 years ago and China today, is that the US 150 years ago was still experiencing the frontier era. Modern China is not a frontier society, there is no vast virgin wilderness just over the horizon for them to expand into. China has been a civilization for thousands of years and has long standing boundaries, they cannot grow more internally as have already used up all their best land to get where they are today, and they cannot expand externally as that means going to war.

China is basically in the same boat as all the other post-colonial Old World powers. Expecting China to become a superpower again like the "old days" is basically the same thing as expecting the UK to become a superpower like the old days. The world has moved on, and in China's case moved on a thousand years ago.

150 years ago the US was not a frontier society user.
The current population patterns of the US were generally established by 1867.

Jesus christ fuck this shitty "history" board

You best be kidding faggot. In the 1880s Galveston was the most important city in Texas and Tombstone was the largest city between St. Louis and San Francisco.

census.gov/history/pdf/1870_Population_Density.pdf

census.gov/history/img/2000_Population_Distribution.jpg

Here's my claim
>The current population patterns of the US were generally established by 1867.
Keyword
>generally

Now do you see this population density picture? It is from the 1870 census.

China was never a superpower you illiterate fuck.

To be a superpower you need to have power projection over the entire globe(all continents), nothing else counts.

Only the British Empire, the US and the USSR ever even qualified for the title.

China will be more and more important on the world stage but it will never dominate to the degree the US does now, there are just too many countries slowly crawling out of the mud right now that will be there to oppose it.

If by generally you mean only the eastern seaboard then sure. New Orleans is completely irrelevant and small now even in the south and lost its relevance to Atlanta almost a century ago. Miami, Houston and Phoenix are some of the largest cities in America and they used to be basically villages back then. Ohio, Michigan and upstate New York got depopulated pretty hard and formerly important places like Cleveland or Detroit are now a barren wasteland. The west is no longer settled just around mines and ports. St.Louis went from a top 10 city and the gateway to the west to a literally who shithole. You could continue all day.

What does population distribution have to do with whether or not a society is a frontier society?

>Modern China is not a frontier society
>China is basically in the same boat as all the other post-colonial Old World powers.

>what is the South China Sea
>what is neo-colonialism in East Africa

Also, what does having a frontier has to do with having shitty conditions in the capital?

>neo-colonism

lol another libcuck buzzword for not lecturing black people while building roads and teaching them soft infrastructure.

The chinks go to africa and are very open about the fact theyre there to do business. They have no post-colonial/slavery handwringing holding them back but at the same time it means the africans have their own agency.

Yeah, it's obvious China isn't the world's leading economy because they have superior technology or the best economic system.

It's because due to the nation's massive size they can be number one in production even with shitty technology and infrastructure. Pic related.

>what is the South China Sea
Territory that does not belong to China and cannot be seized without provoking WW3.

>it's obvious China isn't the world's leading economy
Could've stopped there.

>Also, what does having a frontier has to do with having shitty conditions in the capital?

Which will die choking on it's own feces first?
A turtle in a bathtub, or a turtle in a pond?

Do you honestly believe military expansion is the only way for a nation in 21st century to survive?

superpower =/= merely surviving

Wrong. The South China Sea is a meme pushed by both sides to muddy the waters. China has legitimate claims to some of the islands and is claiming sovereignty over """"islands"""" that aren't really islands.

The US is butthurt because ANY legitimate claim by China over that region would be a threat to its pacific hegemony. Conversely the more of the SCS China can claim the better it is for their A2/ad strategy to count what they see as US containment. Its funny how similar the situation is to the UK/Germany was, except with a whole ocean between them

So neither side has a real interest in compromise

>wrong
>proceeds to agree with me that China can't take control of that region without risking war

You're wrong about who it "belongs" to. The best example would be the paracels, which china has legitimate claim to and which vietnam is super butthurt about. The spratleys """"""""""""islands"""""""""""""" on the other hand are glorified reefs.

>asks for citations but doesn't post any himself

kys

Not the levels of corruption and carelessness the Chinese demonstrate.

But sure. Keep thinking history repeats itself frame by frame because it appeals to your concept of progress, you nerds.

>Not the levels of corruption and carelessness the Chinese demonstrate.

I'd actually like a citation for this, because when I think of government corruptions I think of shit like the Japanese paipan system during the occupation.

>white people
>ever good

Because the average human looks like a Chinaman or Indian. Democratically speaking, they are the way of the future.

Go have some street food in a random city in China.

There's your citation, you ugly autist.

Sinoboos are a curse upon this board.

I did my masters in Chinese history.
It's a fascinating civilization... But please, let's not overrate them. They're mostly a meme for Western historians to imagine someplace was doing better than Europe at one point in time. It helps them to get rid of the guilt of being the best.

So? They're still churning out fucking millions more educated people.

If you've got a group of 10 people, 1 of which is a STEM graduate, and another of 100 people 5 of which are STEM graduates, that second one still has four more fucking STEM graduates regardless of ratio. Raw numbers are not irrelevant, even if the ratios are different.

nice source

>chinese ""degrees""

The problem with India and China is that too many of them lack any concern for those outside their family. In essence, most problems of China can be traced to that attitude. Yet, familism and all its associated troubles (nepotism, corruption, lack of empathy towards non-relatives, willingness to cheat/deceive strangers, etc.) also diminishes with economic development. It's not entirely a phenomenon attributable to Chinese culture, it also has to do with poverty. Taiwan is also basically chinese, at least from a cultural viewpoint, yet it doesn't suffer from these problems as acutely as China, and the main reason is that Taiwan is a rich country.

You're so fucking stupid. How does quality of life or GDP correlate with superpower status? Fucking Rome was built on the backs of slaves and it was still a superpower. Next thing you know, you're gonna say Liechtenstein is a superpower because they all live in mansions!
Go back to /pol/.

>comparing the composition of modern superpowers to premodern ones

Go back to Veeky Forums.

They are weak individuals because they prioritize family over what's best for the whole. I suppose they never strived to thrive, only to survive. They never thought to have more quality over quantity and for decades they've only wanted to be america, their hero and idol.

Fuck this board

Yes

Its too disfunctional and corrupt. If your anywhere but like 8-9 individual cities your living in an ancap nightmare with no NAP and commie murdersquads could fuck you up at any moment.

It needs to balkanize, develope seperatly, and then Liu Bang gets reincarnated and we see a golden age. Thats about it. Otherwise china is fucked

Also they need to just eat north korea already, ffs

china has literally never been a superpower as a superpower needs to be able to globally project force which they have never done