Chinese rebound

India is a meme country, they have nowhere near the unity of language and culture that would normally be considered reasonable for a nation.

India has only been unified for the past 70 years, has only started their industrialisation in that time frame and is still struggling with a very ruralised society, yet it's top 8 in GDP, has some very powerful modern industrial sectors and is sending stuff into space.

Russia was literally a superpower not 30 years ago.

There's less China threads than Rome threads, America threads, German threads, Christian threads, military threads, etc...

Russias population has plummeted below the united states even, the last time they had big numbers they zerg rushed the fuxk out of the nazis, Indians are barely human.

Confusion ethics.

Focus on family then village and then government.

Families of ancient Chinese are very supportive and stable. When a male child marries, he stays in the family and supports the family. The wife of another family is then used to bridge the ties between the two families.

Stable family is also a sign of higher intelligence, so thats also a cause. Higher IQ or rather if that's too divisive, intelligence in general has been the stable point in keeping families together.

Alright, so to quickly summarize the points:
1: massive numbers of people, caused by
great amounts of massively fertile land
2. Convenient geological features (not many obstructive natural borders inside of China)
3. Homogenous culture which encourages obedience and hard work (confucianism)

Did I miss anything esle?

Another convenient geological feature is the massive uninhabitable desert to their west and the mountains to the south keeping them isolated and hard to invade from anywhere besides the north.

A common writing system also allowed a unified administration without a unification of language.

Geography, which helped shape an early, large centralized state.

China was dominated by foreigners for much of its history, but they took advantage of the centralized state and left in tact, so China as a cultural/political entity stayed in tact.

Francis Fukayama covers China more than any other nation in "The Origins of Political Order."

Kaplan's "The Revenge of Geography," explains why Europe will tend to be divided, while the USA and China are predisposed towards being giant, continent sized states.

Very early state formation. The Chinese state was far more like a modern state than Rome was.

You had a greater degree of push towards a standardized language, standardized weights and measures, a professional, meritocratic selected civil service, etc.

Not that Rome wasn't superior in some ways, but China's state apparatus was more modern.

Funny enough, the power of the Chinese state might be what stopped it from developing accountable government/democracy or an economy open to the scientific method/industrial revolution.

I guess they are doing well now with modernization, but they have a higher average age than the US, and that is set to balloon upwards. IDK how you deal with 600 million pensioners if you're country has only had 20 years to really build wealth.

The US has been rich for over a century and our pensioners are still going to fucking ruin us.

>Funny enough, the power of the Chinese state might be what stopped it from developing accountable government
The Mandate of Heaven was a way of keeping the emperors accountable in a very loose, unenforceable sense.

Even in the later Qing dynasty i think that had nearly one third of the world's economy.

>China was dominated by foreigners for much of its history
>Mongol Yuan (1272-1368), Manchu Qing (1648-1911)
Wat.

>IDK how you deal with 600 million pensioners if you're country has only had 20 years to really build wealth.
IIRC their government is trying to force the kids to take care of their parents instead of putting the burden on the state, by downgrading the credit ratings of those who don't.

Getting conquered by barbarians wasn't a death sentence like it was for Rome, because their barbarians were horse nomads who didn't settle and found their own kingdoms on imperial soil unlike the Germanic barbarians who took Roman territory. And they founded legitimate governments within the established framework of Chinese dynasties using the existing bureaucracy to continue administering a united empire as it had been used before, instead of the whole thing splintering up irreversibly like Rome.

Being geographically isolated and having all the resources they need domestically, China was for most of its history in a perfect position to turtle up and recover power unhindered when things get rough.

This is a contrast to European powers who were all competing against each other for clay and having to go overseas to get it.

Rice

What's so good about rice?

Big harvests.

And the Chinese generally grow their rice in the South. Which never winters (though random ass storms and floods are a problem).

Sage all chinese threads. There are no worse threads on Veeky Forums as these, they somehow attract an insane amount of shitposting that even religion threads struggle to rival

Not true. They had a dominant streak from Han to Song but basically plateaud after the mongols happened

They plateaud in the Qing by all accounts.

>yet it's top 8 in GDP
Most of that GDP going to sustenance.

Religion and politics threads are far worse, don't exaggerate.

Also, the Northern Dynasties (386-581 CE).

Since the Southern dynasties also existed concurrently i.e. China not united, do they really count?

Considering that the existence of the Northern Dynasties made the Southern Dynasties so butthurt they went into hyperchinese overdrive and Buddhism was so essential in the Nothern Dynasties that it ended up an important requirement for reunification, but left a lasting impact, yeah, I would say it counts, since influence on the culture is what we were measuring in the first place.

Nah, I only count unification.

The Nanbeichao was a fucking mess. Nobody dominated anyone and both Northern and Southern Dynasties were pretty fractured.

The Jurchen Jin dominated Northern China more than any of the Northern Dynasties.

>China was dominated by foreigners for much of its history
China doesn't even have a sense of Han vs non Han for the vast majority of its history.

The divide was between Sinocentric civilization vs barbarian and the "barbarians" largely chose to assimilate(Mongols were the exception not the norm).

>Also, the Northern Dynasties (386-581 CE).
The Southern dynasties were largely ruled by Sinitic men from peripheral regions(with the exception of Eastern Jin) and considered barbarian by the northern regimes.

Eastern Wu was ruled by locals,Eastern Jin by northern Chinese and Liu Song,Southern Qi,Liang and Chen all descended from military men of the Huai Chu region.

All of the Southern regimes over semi barbaric groups such as the Xi and Min speaking Sinitics and non Sinitic speaking barbarians(Man,Liao,Yue etc.)

>Mongols were the exception
The only Mongols who mattered (Kublai Khan) assimilated and that was enough.

>The only Mongols who mattered (Kublai Khan) assimilated and that was enough.
I was referencing how the Mongols carved up northern China as their personal fiefs.

Strange how the Mongols were so different from their proto/para Mongolics(Xianbei/Khitans) predecessors(who claimed to be descended from Chinese sage kings),

Century of Humiliation is a Republican meme created to denigrate the Qing.

>meme
The West also aimed to humiliate China deliberately, the CCP didn't invent it.
>The destruction of Yuanmingyuan was to be a “solemn act of retribution,”said the British commander Lord Elgin, in which no blood would be spilled, but an emperor's “pride as well as his feelings,” would be crushed.
>“The great vulnerable point in a Mandarin's character lies in his pride,” [Lieutenant Colonel G.J. Wolsely, part of the British expeditionary force] observed. “The destruction of the Yuanmingyuan was the most crushing of all blows which could be leveled at his Majesty's inflated notions of universal supremacy.” Reducing the gardens to ruins was “the strongest proof of our superior strength” and “served to undeceive all Chinamen in their absurd conviction of their monarch's universal sovereignty.”

You can double-crop it for two harvests a year. That means you own a lot of food, which is something everybody needs to survive.

Ironically the Chinese government is considering trying to get more people off rice and onto potatoes instead, because rice farming is really, really water intensive which is a problem when climate change gives you droughts.

Denigration of Qing was done by all parties involved because Qing was a fallen empire.

All parties sought to take advantage of the fall.

>India

>russia
>numbers

Average age in China is still a bit lower than in the US.

Stop spouting lies senpai

Also, Japan has had sub fertility since 1972 and is rich as fuck

The decades of one child policy are going to hit them hard, though. Workforce will shrink as pensioners go through the roof.

>Ironically the Chinese government is considering trying to get more people off rice and onto potatoes instead, because rice farming is really, really water intensive which is a problem when climate change gives you droughts.

I mean, I just don't get why Veeky Forums China threads always spout this memeing bullshit like it's factual.
No! A fucking reddit repost of salon.com is not proof.

And that does what?
The difference between India and China is that the Chinese have a nice repressive state that actively whines about past wrongs to hide their own deficiencies.

And India before British colonization was a major economic power, with a similar amount of GDP to china but lacked the political unity that makes the chinese look more impressive.

>the nation state is the only way people have been organized throughout history.

Chinese civilization always had a knack for developing strong government institutions. But it's like a double edged sword because China is utter shit without a centralized govt, kind of like Russia.

The ultimate dream of Japanese ultranationalists is to Balkanize China so I think there is some merit to that

I don't get this meme.

1. China had a 2+ fertility until 1990.
2. China has had a significantly higher birth rate than Japan for every year on birth records (since about 1949).
3. Japan has had sub fertility birth rates since 1972.
4. Japan's economy is over 1000% larger today than in 1972.
5. Taiwan, Korea, Thailand, and Singapore all have far more of an aging problem, and yet there economies continue to grow 2-3% (better than the US/Europe).

There's no economic reason why an aging population is a problem. GDP growth can be negative and the GDP per capita could still increase (Japan 2008-2014).
China's problem is the fact they have a HUGE population born from 1950-1970 and a population bust 2000-2010. But from 1970-2000 the average fertility was 2+ and since 2010 it has risen back to 1.6-1.7

Also, your original claim about China's average age is factually wrong. Now kill yourself.

>singapore
come on now, it's a city state.

I forgot, there's also the power of memes. Chinese believe that once united, the country will eventually break apart. And once broken apart, the country will eventually reunite again. It gives them a perspective on history unlike any other nation which could explain the constant rebounds.

Oh wait so India's government doesn't whine about past events to hide their own deficiencies?

You are a fucking retard

It doesn't make it a matter of national policy to reclaim ancient homelands and invade other countries.

Respond to the content of my post you fucker

Taiwan and Singapore are small countries that have a largely service based economy that doesn't depend upon labor to the same extent that china does.

Thinking that the chinese economy will be the same as those two countries is a pretty strange.

1. What is Kashmir
2. What is Goa
3. What is Sikkim

>no ancient homeland
Because they literally don't have any fucking predecessor before India. It's a concept devised in the 1880's.

India's government resorts to nationalism and revanchism on a daily basis. You are so fucking idiotic I'm done responding

You didn't respond to the content of my post you stupid fuck

>Thinking that the chinese economy will be the same as those two countries is a pretty strange.
And thinking they are so different that China must be facing A SUPREMELY DIFFERENT AND WORSE SITUATION is fucking retarded

China's following the exact same development path as the other East Asian nations.

Kek. Nigeria and Indonesia both have larger populations than Russia.

>goa
An european colony that the Indian government asked the poruguese to vacate and which the portuguese refused to do so.

>sikkim
Elected to democratically enter India because the other option would be to enter china.

>kashmir
The Raja of Kashmir agreed to enter India before India entered kashmir because the pakistanis had invaded it.

Your lack of historical knowledge regarding India is astounding.

>a european colony
Not an argument. It's literally a clear cut case of Indian revanchism.

>elected democratically
No they did not. In no way was it "democratic".

The choice was either get invaded by China, or get invaded by India. India made it clear. They had their army lined up across the border and had already invaded parts of it the preceding year

>king said
Oh wow how democratic! Yes and Trump says fuck the world. Surely that must represent the will of the American people.

Your lack of historical knowledge about India is astounding.

>China's following the exact same development path as the other East Asian nations.
Except with a shitload more poverty that needed to be reversed.

"China" isn't a nation-state, it's a entire civilization within which different regions have been dominant over time, masquerading as a nation-state. It's easy to be in the "top three" when you are comparing a whole civilization to mere nation-states. It's more appropriate to compare China to the whole of Europe than to individual European countries.

>China's following the exact same development path as the other East Asian nations

Not really.

Japan did it faster and better

this, this is a different way of looking at things, interesting.

Japan also had the US armed forces propping them up so they could afford to not have to spend on defense.

If you asked me I would rathe be put in charge of Meiji Japan than China at any time of reformation.

The boshin war aint got shit on the cultural revolution, tai ping rebellin, boxer rebellion, and all that jazz

The meme is different now though. Before the Qing the idea of China centred around the middle plains and Han civilization.

The Qing needed to justify what was an actual multiethnic empire cosnsiting of koreans mongols turcouighurs tibetns etc, so they made up the meme of the "zhonghua mingzhu".

The CCP has taken up this meme (for worse imo) and its the reason why they now have dead weight like far tibet and uighur areas to administer, because it lies at the core of their ideology of what "china" is.

>dead weight like far tibet
They're not keeping Tibet because of a dead Qing meme, they're keeping Tibet because Tibet controls the source of China's major rivers, and an independent Tibet would have the power to cut off China's water any time they like, plus Tibet is a strategic buffer from Indian invasion across the Himalayas.

>and uighur areas
Are a strategic buffer between China and the former Soviet republics.

The British are such shitters. Nothing is worse than an Englishman with legitimate power. Even the Russians aren't as nasty.

Japanese were nastier. British just wanted to force the Chinese to open up trade and take drugs, they didn't literally force Chinese to work to death at gunpoint as disposable slaves then have competitions to see who could kill 100 chinese the fastest.

also potatoes has a massively higher ratio of work invested versus calories obtained than rice

It's been a different dynasty each time that has taken over top spot by coming to dominate the empire. Not "China". Saying China keeps rising back to the top is like saying Europe keeps rising back to the top, rather than different European nations.

>China
>ever being on top

fucking kek m8, even fucking India has contributed more historically and has held more power and influence than the insular Chinese who get fucked over every other century

India has over a billion fucking people. Name a single other system that has successfully managed that many citizens.

mysterious Chinese soul:

Families, when a child is born
Want it to be intelligent.
I, through intelligence
Having wrecked my whole life,
Only hope the baby will prove
Ignorant and stupid.
Then he will crown a tranquil life
By becoming a Cabinet Minister.

T: Su Shi (Minister of Rites, 11th century AD)

>Europe keeps rising back to the top
This is certainly a valid observation, especially if we take Europe as a cultural/civilizational superregion like China, merely less unified.

>faster
According to whom? "Faster" in a historical sense or "faster" in time required to develop? Because China has that by a large margin.

>better
[Citation needed]
Their economy is a stagnant depressed hellhole for businesses and workers

You do realize that South Korea, Taiwan, and Hong Kong were fucking poorer than African nations until the 70's.

>Tibet and Xinjiang are useless
Factually wrong

>deadweight
Maybe. Then again, if they weren't Chinese they'd have been Soviet or Indian.

Which country represents the rooster.

>what is the Ming

France

The secret is that each dynasty is a different regime and they just pretend like its the same thing. The two things about the CCP which are different from all the other dynasties is that they don't pretend that they are the same thing and they added Lenin into the Confucian-Buddhist political theory they've got going

The unified Chinese dynasties were all broadly the same territories operating as a single political unit with a continuity of common cultural identity as Sinitic. Europe wasn't a single entity between Rome falling and the creation of the EU.

China keeps Xinjiang around to access the superior Uyghur gene.

It also gives them a border to their ally Pakistan but that's secondary.

>IDK how you deal with 600 million pensioners if you're country has only had 20 years to really build wealth.
just put some more poisons and carcinogens in the air

That just forces you to waste more money on healthcare for chronic conditions.

We should team up and kill China again.

China is only relevant since the 1960s

City populations =/= Country populations. Cities can just take in foreigners. Countries cant take in foreigners in mass or they start Ackbaring out.

So people die in Singapore. Some more foreigners from the surrounding area, Malayasians, chinese etc, move in to the city for lucrative jobs etc.

That said on the topic of boom busts: I think idea of the country spiraling out of control from a large pensioner population is a little overblown. I think the modern economy will switch between booms and busts as pensions die off, freeing up capital for the then youth who can spend it on having more children etc.

>Countries cant take in foreigners in mass or they start Ackbaring out.
>all foreigners are Muslims

Sounds like someone reads his Francis Fukuyama

Their geopolitics are pretty solid. The SEA countries are tiny in size, Japs are separated by a channel and small, India is blocked off by mountains and Russia's East too ramshackle to support an expansion agenda. What has ever really threatened them? Once we get past the mongols

>What has ever really threatened them?
The Royal Navy

>What has ever really threatened them?
japanese in the imjin war
japanese in the sino-japanese war

Yeah, but they didn't have a gazillion population's worth of people to have to drag out of poverty and build infrastructure for.

The mongols, the xiongnu, the nomads, etc