What's up with Israel?

What happened with Israel? The way I know it is that some Jews took a bunch of land from Palestine for some reason (WWII?). Seems really hard to justify doing something like that, but everywhere I go it seems controversial to suggest that Jews had no right to take the homes and land of the Palestinians and fuck over the people based on something they had nothing to do with.

>some people took land from some other people!
>.........
>the first set of people are Jews!!!
>THIS IS AN UNPRECEDENTED OUTRAGE!!!!!

Really fires up the noggin

>THIS IS AN UNPRECEDENTED OUTRAGE!!!!!
Does anyone (that isn't an obvious antisemite) seriously frame the situation like this? Usually the people who argue against Israel don't exactly have positive things to say about other forms of colonialism, either.

You seem to be acting as though I've said more than I did. You know nothing about my opinions aside from the one I just posted. Perhaps similar situations happen all the time with people taking land from others, but I'm asking why people react so violently when you start questioning whether it was right in THIS specific case. People get very touchy when it's suggested that perhaps the Jews were in the wrong to take land from Palestine, but I don't get why it was justified in the first place.

Israel is the most realistic country possible. It simply takes what it wants without caring too much about ramifications because it can afford to get away with it.

>I don't get why it was justified in the first place.
Because discussions about Israel don't work the same way as other political discussions. Criticism of Israel is usually framed as antisemitism, so those responses are directed at what's perceived as hate speech, whether or not that's how it was intended.

The last part of this map isn't accurate, the West Bank doesn't have nearly that many Jewish settlements. Anyway, thanks to guys like Theodor Herzl, the idea of Zionism (Jewish Nationalism, the belief in a Jewish state in the Holy Land) started to catch on and resettlements in what is modern day Isreal began to take place as far back as the late 19th century. After the Holocaust, the newly formed United Nations convened to discuss the creation of two separate states; Israel and Palestine. Keep in mind that Herzl's original plan involved cooperation with the Palestinians, and that Jewish settlers had been fairly friendly to the Palestinians up until after Israel became a formal nation. The United Nations drew out a map that would give Palestine the Gaza Strip and the West bank a well as access to parts of Jerusalem and Israel would have the rest. Due to the incompetence of the early United Nations, the plan was abandoned. However, David Ben Gurion took his army and declared Israel a nation based on the United Nations map and proceeded to draw up a constitution. The United Nations, concerned with other things, quickly recognized the new nation of Israel. The Palestinians however, being unorganized, were unable to declare independence and Palestine has been a pseudo state ever since. The UN's original plan called for two states.

TL;DR, the Israelis were better organized and were able to form a nation whereas the unorganized Palestinians weren't.

Jews acquired that land because they're better than the Palestinians at acquiring land. Basically the story of every expansive country ever.

Boo fucking hoo. No more pathetic than bitching about Turkey not giving back Constantinople.

except the israelis fought defensive wars instead of ones of conquest

You can still conquer land in defensive wars.

It changes the narrative from simple expansion to fighting for it's own existence.

I think you are missing the pre-1947 parts of the map. Here let me summarize it for you:

>A billion Jordanians invade.
>They kill every Jew and Arab they find.
>Jews strike back but make the mistake of not killing everyone they find and continuing into surrounding nations and depopulating them too.

Like Danzig.

But anyhoo. Its better this way. Stop bringing morality into geopolitics. Its better for everyone involved.

the only people who hate israel are /pol/ weenies, palestini*ns, and self hating liberal jews.

debate me nerds.

/pol/ here, Israel is based.

You mean the westbank being annexed by jordan from 1948 till 1967? Technically the zionists didn't take the westbank from palestine but from jordan.

add 95% of the arab world, """"""""european""""""" muslims and liberal westerners

Ok big guy number 1 is Britain control the land of Palestine pre ww2. Germany sent out, after Hitler kicked communists out, Jews to Palestine by the thousands. Their economy actually relied on German made goods during Germany's economic boom.

If anyone happens to have this book on hand, start with it to get a good feel of how the concept of a Jewish state began. Basically, post WW1 when the Paris Peace Conference was pushing the idea of self-determination, all of the former Ottoman provinces wanted in on it. A very influential Jewish group proposed a Jewish state, to which Wilson and Lloyd George were open to, and to which Clemenceau was opposed (OMG DOSE ANTISEMITIC FRENCH! ANUDDA SHOAH). The people living in Palestine were a bunch of fuck off warring durkas who refused to talk to the delegates regarding a Palestinian state, while the Jewish lobby for a Jewish state gained ground at the conference.

So basically you had an Ajax vs. Odysseus for Achilles's armor situation. It went to the better speaker, except instead of killing sheep, Ajax blew himself up in a religious fervor.

After ww1 with the Ottoman empire defeated Britain and France had agreements on what to do with the land in the near east; there wasn't much sense of nationalism or even nations in the area at the time, your court system, laws, culture ect were way more determined by your religion in the ottoman empire.

So during the war the British and Americans were slightly worried that the Germans were gathering Jewish support, and they wanted to sway the jewish (and the powerful jewish banks ) to their side; so they promised a very vague idea of a 'jewish homeland' in Palestine.

Later, after the war then jews started emigrating even before there was a clear plan down as to what to do. Over the years the Arabs got more and more pissed and would riot and kill people, and the British would send commissions to see what the locals wanted and they almost always came back with the answer "The Arabs dont want more Jews stealing their country"

BUT! The Jews were way more organized than than the arabs, and had their own congresses and commissions that would make official proclimations and complaints ect, while the arabs weren't unified at all

1/?

infact, the arabs thought that if they unified and made a congress and sent official complaints they would almost be legitimizing the opposition, that they just saw as thieves and criminals trying to steal Palestine from them (this is a theme that will continue all the way until present day)

Eventually the British did cease Jewish immigration, almost in time too. The jews were about 1/10th of the Arab population and the Arabs had a higher birth rate too; so maybe it would be okay in the end! But the jews went freaking crazy and started rioting and sending angry letters; and the Americans said the British was anti-Semitic and stuff. So the British started letting the jews back in again despite Arab (disorganized) complaints

Eventually the Jews started becoming a more and more powerful force in Palestine Area. Both sides were actively trying to kill eachother with Arabs mounting raids attacking Jewish areas, and the jews retaliating in massive force (a theme that will repeat through history). Both sides attacked the British forced that were in the area trying to stop the violence from both sides; and this point clueless at what to do with this mess they had helped create.

Eventually the British washed their hands of the matter, and gave the issue to the UN. And started their plan to withdraw all their armed forces. They had finally had enough

2/?

The UN had a huge dilemma on their hands, there is a reason that the British couldn't solve it themselves.

1. any attempt at a two state solution was completely despised by the Arabs, the jews were brought here by a foreign power, and now just by squatting in the area they were going to get to annex half of Palestine!! completely ridiculous

2. any attempt to divide the land into areas of jewish and arab population was completely impossible, the jews were not concentrated into one spot, they were spread everywhere, and also both sides wanted control of important areas of various significance regardless of population

A continuous area of jews, or a partition with good strategic borders was impossible

the eventual solution had a state that was 60% jewish and 40% arab, next to a state that was 90% arab and 10% jew.

the two countries were to be created in 1948, and months before the 'start date' both sides propoganda was whipped into a frenzy, The arab side was throthing at the mouth at the chance to finally drive the Jews into the sea without foreign intervention, and the Jews were also getting ready to kick the arabs to pieces in a titanic struggle

in 1948 you have the first Arab Israeli war, or the war for Israel or whatever it's called
I dont know the exact change over of land, but the Arabs got their teeth kicked in by the highly trained and competent (ww2 veterans) Israelis and Israel got to be a state

next we will look at how they acquired the golan heights, gaza strip and west bank

There was no Palestinian sovereign state before Israel gained independence, it belonged to Britain.

False pic

The Jews also possessed the Sinai but they gave it back to Egypt

>last ever independent nation in holy land is judea

godfrey of bouillon would disagree

Over the next 10 years every surrounding country to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Syria are all sending commando raids into Israel , in what they see as a struggle for unification, reclamation, and anti-colonialism like Angola where commando type 'internal' conflicts had won the day

The Israel forces had a policy of massive retaliation, and in 1968 intelligence services of Arabia and USSR and US were all saying that Israel was massing forces on the Syrian border

at this point Nasser had taken power in Egypt, and there was a high idea of Arab unification and pan-Arabic national struggle. (especially after the 1956 war)

Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq all pledged to fight together against Israel and the propoganda of both sides again whipped itself into a frenzy
it was a game of brinkmanship on a ludicrous scale. Israel happy to give the impression that they were about to attack Syria and the Arab world itching at the opportunity to destroy Israel and finally reunite their world.

Finally Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on the Egyptian airforce, firing the first shot in a war that would end in a massive and humiliating Arab defeat

The gaza strip was seized from Egypt as well as the entire sinai peninsular
The west bank was seized from Jordan along with Jerusalem
and the golan heights were taken from Syria

In some ways this was an improvement for stability in the middle east, Israel finally had the defensible and strategic borders it desired.

But on the other hand, they now had millions more Arabs in virtual captivity in their fledgling nation, definitely second class citizens with nowhere to go.
Millions of arabs fled Israel in a massive arabic diaspora, ending up in refuge camps all over the middle east.

...

To the arabs it was a shocking psychological blow, only to be partially undone in the 1973 war when the Egyptians forced the international community and Israels hand to get the very valuable Sinai peninsular back

I have not covered the many Palestinian political activist movements or lebanon

>...in 1968 intelligence services of Arabia and USSR and US were all saying that Israel was massing forces on the Syrian border

The USSR faked a report saying the Israelis were massing forces. The Egyptian chief of staff even warned Nasser that the soviets were giving false reports to Egypt and Syria about Israeli intentions. Egypt probably tried to show muscle under pressure from the other arab nations, but did nothing more than provoke a threatened israel.

>what reason did some people have to take land from some other people!
>.........
>the first set of people are Jews!!!
>HOW DARE YOU EVEN ASK THIS!!!

Or just people who have common sense

what does it feel like, having no foreskin?

'Murican Jews have monetary funded Israel.

t. anti-masturbator faggot

>/pol/ derails a thread with a bunch of oneliners pretending they're arguments

I have no problem with Jews having their own homeland, I just wish they didn't pick this one. You could have taken a chunk out of Argentina, in fact the original plan was to have Zion be close to Buenos Aires, and the global geopolitical situation would be undoubtedly improved if Israel were in South America.

But unfortunately we have to deal with reality, we can't play the "what if" game and we have to deal with Israel and Palestine in the distinct reality that we now face. A 1-state solution is probably completely out of the question at this point, so we have to build a bridge to creating a long-term 2-state solution, and that means a number of things that both sides are not going to like particularly well.

Sadly I doubt this situation will be noticeably improved in my lifetime.