There are several things I like about Judaism
I can't do this irl because there aren't any communites near me, but would it be worth converting even with how oppressed they are historically as a minority? Will jews be oppressed in the future in the US or western world in general?
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en.m.wikipedia.org
askmoses.com
en.m.wikipedia.org
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WTF are you asking?
Whether or not you should convert based on possible persecution?
Are you seriously this autistic?
Doubt that minorities will face the same amount of oppression that they did decades ago.
I think people will drop the idpol, considering the amount of autism that can be seen from SJWs to stormfags. Zionists will be no exception.
Why Judaism?
why is valuing your life autistic?
I like the fact their culture is based around education, and I also like how their God is more abstract, where as, in Christianity, a lot more people think God is just a guy with a big beard.
Agree. Judaism is exactly like that, but have you considered about Islam?
Islam is the closest to the Judaism in the term of faith and practices. We believe that YHWH is the only true God and no imagery should be make of Him.
But the Jews have make Judaism an ethnic religion. You have to be born a Jew to become a Jew, while Islam is universal.
If you have the time, please watch this:
m.youtube.com
>But the Jews have make Judaism an ethnic religion. You have to be born a Jew to become a Jew,
Yeah, like Ruth!
Not op, but I have a question about islam... It's a requisite circumcition?
Just convert to reform
>I also like how their God is more abstract, where as, in Christianity, a lot more people think God is just a guy with a big beard.
Have you even read the OT? YHWH is a petty af tribal deity. pic related. YHWH may not have a big beard in this depiction, but he does have a big dick
>jews be oppressed in the future in the US or western world in general?
They will believe in their superiority so there will always be people who hate them for their arrogance. It's too ugly to ignore.
>convert to a form of "Judaism" that gets rid of Hebrew and all the other defining characteristics of Judaism
People only convert to reform Judaism so that they can claim that they were oppressed and are a minority. Pretty much all the major leftist "Jewish" groups that attack normal orthodox Judaism and Israel are reform movements
You can't become a halachial Jew and get a free trip if Israel if that's what you're after. I'm sure some of the more lax sects will honor your LARPing.
Yes BUT don't worry, mankind have invented the greatest medicine of all time, anesthetic.
You only feel a SLIGHT LITTLE pain, a FEW ant bite. I'm not kidding I promise. Even Jesus got circumcised.
Circumcision is also a healthy practice, here:
webmd.com
What I meant was the Jews as a whole.
Are there any Jews here? Got a few questions.
>What I meant was the Jews as a whole.
No, what you meant is that your only knowledge of Judaism comes from /pol/ memes, and you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
do you think converts are regarded/treated as equal by born jews?
Those that convert to orthodox Judaism are. Criticising a full orthodox conversion that takes a long time and is approved by the Rabbi would be very taboo and incorrect.
The Torah teaches that although Judaism is not a proselytising religion and doesn't openly seek converts, those that actually go through the process of conversion and keep Jewish laws out of their own free will are said to have a Jewish soul all along.
Are you a Jew? Don't you think that if Judaism really is the true religion, then shouldn't it be spread to all mankind?
What about the non-Judaism? Are they going to go to hell since no one told them that Judaism is the true religion?
I'm sorry for my previous post, I never met a Jew before. No hard feelings.
>circumscision is good for you!
fuck off, dicksnip
I provide links, read the health benefits. While the non-benefits, it says that it very low and can be prevented if done in clean and sterile place. Pain can be reduced with anesthetic.
>People only convert to reform Judaism so that they can claim that they were oppressed and are a minority
So what? A jew is a jew is a jew.
of course there are "health benefits"
just like there are "health benefits" to pulling all your teeth and replacing them with dentures so you don't get cavities
>are you a Jew
Yeah, although I'm not overly religious so someone correct me if I say anything wrong
>if Judaism really is the true religion, then shouldn't it be spread to all mankind?
>what about non-judaism? Are they going to hell because no one told them
Not really. In most other Abrahamic religions, such as Christianity or Islam, if someone doesn't convert to their religion then they go to hell. Judaism doesn't believe in 'hell' in the same way, and we also believe that G-d judges creed not kind.
If you study Judaism in depth, you'll see that it's a religion for the Jewish people. The Tanakh (old testament) is the story of the 'children of Israel', and the word for 'Jew' in Hebrew is identical to the word for 'Judean'.
For all intensive purposes, I suppose it is an ethnoreligion, but if someone really wanted to convert and put the effort into doing so then they would be accepted.
According to Judaism, are there hell?
What people goes to hell? Does non-Judaism go to hell?
>Traditional Judaism firmly believes thatdeath is not the end of human existence. However, because Judaism is primarily focused on life here and now rather than on the afterlife, Judaism does not have much dogma about the afterlife, and leaves a great deal of room for personal opinion. It is possible for an OrthodoxJew to believe that the souls of the righteous dead go to a place similar to the Christian heaven, or that they are reincarnated through many lifetimes, or that they simply wait until the coming of the messiah, when they will be resurrected. Likewise, Orthodox Jews can believe that the souls of the wicked are tormented by demons of their own creation, or that wicked souls are simply destroyed at death, ceasing to exist.
Ayy, so evil people go to hell and good people go to heaven, regardless of their religion?
No. Like it says
>it is possible for an orthodox Jew to believe
>it is possible
I don't believe in hell, and neither did my rabbis who taught me when I was growing up. No where in the Torah does it mention hell, therefore it is open to debate and opinion
Is the Old Testament is the same as the Torah?
Are you ?
Tbqh the persecution doesn't bother me. For my lifetime at least the Jews are probably safe outside of godforsaken Islamic countries.
Now the circumcision, that bothers me. I mean, yeah I want to take the leap of faith and live the holy life, but do I really want to be a cutfag?
Judaism is great
>God actually seems properly infinite, indivisible and awesome (in the non-meme sense) rather than just being a very contrived McGuffin for the universe.
>Moral guidelines that have been keeping the Jewish people alive for thousands of years despite being spread all over the planet
>Saved from annihilation at the zero hour countless times. Also control the world. Clearly god is helping them.
>Jesus is without a shadow of a doubt, not the messiah.
The Torah is the five books of Moses, which is slightly more than the Tanakh or old testament I think. And no that's not me
No, the Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament.
Yahweh is obviously a spook.
Firstly you understand that you can convert to judaism right? It's just not necessary or even encouraged.
God made a covenant with Noah telling him and by extension the rest of humanity what we should do if we want to remain in good standing with God and since God made that covenant, it's eternally binding between man and God. This is why conversion isn't necessary.
However as an act of love, God made an additional covenant, one which we as non jews are not made to follow, one which involves only the jews and God, in the form of the law. This is what it means by the hebrews or the jews as being the chosen people. If you've actually read the law which is known as the mizvot in hebrew, you will understand just how difficult it is to follow this law and furthermore you need to understand just how damaging it is to the nation of israel if a jew breaks just one of these mizvot, this is why it is not encouraged for a non jew to become a jew.
user, the Golden Age of the Jews is during the Golden Age of the Muslim.
en.m.wikipedia.org
Look, we're not your enemies. We believe that Moses is one of the mightiest messenger of God. We honor Moses, Aaron and Joshua just like the Jews honor them. We love them dearly.
Let's not fight, ok?
So the Torah is the five books of Moses in the OT 100%? Or do you view the five books in the OT corrupted?
Again, no hard feelings about my previous post.
I don't have a problem with Muslims. I just think that Muslim countries specifically at this point in time have quite widespread anti-Semitic feelings.
>So the Torah is the five books of Moses in the OT 100%?
Yes, the books in the old testament are lifted straight from Jewish canon.
Soooo, why follow the law if you don't believe in hell anyway?
Because otherwise God will punish us on Earth. e.g Hitler.
Well I don't follow the law because I'm not a jew and I don't want to speak about motivations since I can't speak for the jews.
One reason why I wanted to follow the law back when I was considering conversion is because I considered it as a way I could show my love of God to God and also since the law is so perfect.
If I read your post right, you're implying that following the law seems pointless if God doesn't threaten us right? imo there is still a threat without an explicit hell since God is all powerful and punishes our transgression with judgement.
Again this is just my opinion as an outsider to the jews.
You guys are still waiting for the Messiah, right?
Or have you given up on that?
Assuming that you're the muslim who has been posting in this thread I made that post because I don't think you understand the position of judaism correctly.
>Don't you think that if Judaism really is the true religion, then shouldn't it be spread to all mankind?
>Are they going to go to hell since no one told them that Judaism is the true religion?
You don't see how my post addresses those points?
What about Islam? It's the closest to the Jews in term of faith and practices.
>You guys are still waiting for the Messiah, right?
Yes.
Yes, from what I gather, Judaism doesn't seek converts.
Believe in afterlife, but still debating whether or not hell exist.
Non-Jews can enter Judaism, but not recommended nor discourage.
Punishment exist in the worlds if they don't follow the law.
I think that's about it, unless I'm missing something?
Why do you reject Jesus and Muhammad?
They both honor Moses. They both worship the same God as Moses.
They both pray just like Moses and Aaron, fell on their face and pray to god:
Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he(Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed...
Jesus's teachings is NOT the teaching of the Church today. Jesus said that he came to FULFILL the Mosaic Law, not to abolish it.
So why reject both of them?
Oh, and you guys believe that the Torah is preserve, right?
>Why do you reject Jesus and Muhammad?
>Jesus
Because the messiah has a very strict set of requirements and standards (moreso than most Jews) that Jesus simply did not meet. We're still living in exile without our king or temple, there's still plenty of war and suffering in the world, there's still non-Jews and non-Noahides, if Jesus is really the son of God (a very un-Jewish idea to begin with) he couldn't possibly be a patrilineal descendent of David, there's still people who deny their crimes against Israel, we don't have knowledge of the Torah beamed directly into our brains by god so we still have to study it normally instead, there's still barren land on Earth, and so forth.
>inb4 but in the next life . . .
>inb4 but the second coming . . .
That's not what the messiah is about. That's like me claiming to be the second coming of Jesus then promptly dying without anything that revelations said would happen happening but it's okay because my followers will posthumously justify this.
>Muhammad
Very simply because Islam violates the Torah. A prophet of God shouldn't contradict earlier prophets.
>inb4 Muhammad didn't contradict earlier prophets, their messages were just corrupted over time.
This is where we disagree. Jews don't believe this happened.
Can you rephrase that?
As in do you believe the Torah now is the exact Torah in the time of Moses? Exactly identical? Without a word different?
Not necessarily. But we do believe that the laws contained within the Torah are the exact some of those at the time of Moses.
Ayy, thanks f a m
Are there any Judaism General on Veeky Forums often?
id take a gander and say is one ask him
Occasionally, but any time it happens you can be sure that at some point it will degenerate into stormfag and/or christfag shitposting.
Well, you do kill their God.
But then again, they claim Jesus was destined to be crucified. So I don't know which side to blame.
Yeah but they basically think that's a good thing since now he died for their sins so really they should be grateful that we killed him.
Because neither of them fulfill the requirements of being the Jewish messiah, and neither of them did anything positive for the Jewish people in general.
This. I suppose that's expected on Veeky Forums
Yes, but on what charges do you kill him? On blasphemy?
Jesus never said he is God. Nor did he said he's divine. The term "Son of God" are also used for Adam, David, Israel, People of Nepehilm, ect.
Moses, Satan, Jews even called in the Old Testament. I can give you bible verses for all of my claim if you want.
Jesus said he came to fulfill the law of the prophet. He said keep the law and salvation is yours.
Why hate him?
*are even called God in the Old Testament
>Jesus never said he is God.
John 8:54-59. Cross reference with Exodus 3:13-14
user, Moses also says the same to the Jews.
Deuteronomy 9:24
You have been rebellious against the LORD ever since I have known you.
I'M NOT SAYING that Jews should go to hell. I'm saying that you should acknowledge your ancestors mistakes and DON'T be like them.
>John 8:54-59
I AM WHO I AM? It's greek, while in Exodus it's Hebrew.
While it's not known what "I AM" in greek, you must agree that it use special greek, agree?
But this is NOT the case. It's "ego eimi". It's used MULTIPLE place in the Bible by people OTHER than Jesus. So it's not "I AM" like the Christians claim to be.
Agree?
Okay but Jesus is still not the messiah. The Jews worshipping the golden calf is as bad to me as worshipping a false messiah
*but you must agree
Also, John the Baptist used the exact same greek in John 1:21, but why aren't any Christians worship him?
Jesus never claimed to be god. He ask you to worship the only True God, YHWH.
It's the Christians fault for this misunderstanding, not Jesus.
Some people do worship John the Baptist, it's called Mandaeism
Converts though always seem insincere.
It's a romanticism of judaism and jewishness based on stereotypes. I don't consider converts ethnically jewish because they aren't.
And this seems to upset them and then they will mention some ancient jew who had convert ancestry, but forget those jews were still of semitic ancestry. Usually a convert from a related tribe.
Okay but that still doesn't make him a messiah. People were already worshipping G-d before Yeshua came along.
Holy shit, really? Damn I never knew that.
But again, my point still stands. The exact greek is used in multiple place in the Bible. Thus NOT THE SAME as "I AM" in Exodus.
Thus Jesus not claiming to be God.
So what's the significance of Jesus?
If he's just a regular old rabbi trying to reinforce the Torah what exactly is special about him? That's what every rabbi has been doing since forever.
The context of the phrase is very important.
>Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?” 58“Truly, truly, I tell you, Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
He's not just saying "I am" for the sake of it. He's saying he is and always was, which deliberately channels God's words to Moses.
He's a prophet, just like Moses.
Wait, are you saying that the "I am" is the same in Exodus?
>be Moses
>lead the Jewish people out of Egypt, split the sea, lead them in the desert
>be Jesus
>never really do anything of note and then get killed
>the religion that you spawn then prosyletises, throws laws out the Torah and persecutes your own people
I don't think he is though. Jesus doesn't really meet the Jewish standards of a prophet either.
askmoses.com
No, obviously because Jesus and Moses spoke different languages.
I'm saying that Jesus is deliberately channelling God in Exodus and saying "Yes, I'm god" is exactly what he was doing.
Blasphemy.
Jesus is the Son of God.
user, let's look at the question:
“You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?”
Now look at the answer:
“before Abraham was born, ****YHWH name*****!”
Does it make sense for Jesus to say God's name out of nowhere? It seems out of place. Agree?
Also, does the question ask whether Jesus is divine? Or what is his name? Or is Jesus God? NO.
Does the out-of-place-God's-name statement answers the Jews question? No.
The statement is IRRELEVANT to the question. Agree? Thus it is NOT "I AM" in Exodus. Thus Jesus is not claiming to be God.
It's just the normal "I am".
So is Adam, David, Israel, Jacob, People of Nepehilm, ect, according to the Bible. Check Old Testament usage in:
en.m.wikipedia.org
David is even called BEGOTTEN Son of God, according to the Bible.
What's make Jesus different from the other Sons?
Also, the context of Jesus' words were about seeing Abraham before he was even born. This is nothing new in the Bible. In the Old Testament, we read:
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)"
Since Jesus was created from the Word of GOD Almighty, and since also our human-spirits are also created from the Holy Spirit, and since Jesus was a Word from the Word of Allah Almighty, then it is quite possible for him to have known, or seen the records of the future human-creations that were going to be created on earth, such as Abraham and others. After all, Allah Almighty uses Angels, Spirits and other created Beings of His to create creations under His Command. Things in the spiritual realm are different. Existence in the spiritual world, including our spirits, is Eternal. Our earthly bodies are not Eternal. So, Jesus having a prior knowledge about Abraham's spirit is nothing unusual in the spiritual world.
Now you're just being thick.
>“before Abraham was born, ****YHWH name*****!”
This is the thing "I am" is not God's name. It's a declaration of his nature. God is saying he simply is to Moses thus does not need to introduce himself. Likewise Jesus is saying that he knows Abraham because he is and always was. This means that either a) Jesus is some kind of divine entity that has always coexisted with God outside of the material world or b) Jesus is God himself. Given the choice of words he seems to be suggesting the latter.
>Also, does the question ask whether Jesus is divine?
Yes, that's exactly what the question poses. If he's like 30 yet somehow personally knows Abraham then obviously he's suggesting something divine is going on.
>Does the out-of-place-God's-name statement answers the Jews question? No.
Yes it does. To put the exchange in other words "How do you know Abraham", "Oh well that's because I'm god".
>It's just the normal "I am".
Then Jesus is a fucking idiot that can't speak property and so we should pay him no reverence.
Then sentence would make absolutely no sense, it's just a random phrase tacked on to the end for no reason. Either Jesus is literally retarded, or he actually did mean something by it.
Okay, but that's supremely heretical and is absolutely grounds to execute him for blasphemy.
Does Jews accept the Psalm and Song of Solomon as the words of God?
Because I know that David and Solomon was given scripture, and they both are acknowledged by the Jews.
Do you accept them?
I only know that Jews accept the Torah and the Talmud. Are there any other books that the Jews accept?
Because according to the gospels Jesus is literally the biological son of God born to no other father.
Literally why? Do you not know that prophet are given miracles? Like Moses turn his stick into a snake?
It's just a miracle given to him by God. That's all.
David? He is begotten, which literally means biologyly.
In Exodus, it's actually make sense.
"Who are you?"
"I am who I am. Don't bother about my name. Just go preach to the Pharaoh"
But in Jesus case:
"He is yet finish his work, and you have pay him?"
"Before he was hired, ***Boss name***"
To me it doesn't make sense whatsoever.
Because it totally violates the Torah.
>It's just a miracle given to him by God. That's all.
Why would God do that?
God turned Moses' staff into a snake to flex his power to the Pharaoh.
What exactly are you suggesting God wants to accomplish by making Jesus in such a way that will be totally imperceivable to anyone?
Then why follow Jesus?
Ayy, but remember. He help to cure the blind and the lepers by God permission. A prophet was given miracles. And this is the miracles he performs.
John the Batisp, I think you Jews accept him as a prophet of God, performs no miracles. Yet he is a prophet.
So miracles aren't a qualification to become a prophet.
He is a prophet of God. So we must follow him.
Besides, he said he came to fulfill the Mosaic Law. Which is your law, so just accept him as a Prophet, will ya?
It make things easier for people to accept Jesus as God.
Moses was sent to people that are expert in witchcraft. So God gave him witchcraft-like miracles.
Jesus is also in the same case. His people was expert in medicine. So God gave him medicine-like miracles so that it's easier for people to accept him as God.
Agree?
Adam?
God made Adam from the Earth, he doesn't have biological parents. Jesus supposedly does however, Mary and God.
Ok I gave up. What requirements does Jesus fails to meet?
I'm sorry. But please just give me example and maybe I can answer it.
Then how about david? God said to david:
Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Really? "Yes or no" answer would be suffice.
>Besides, he said he came to fulfill the Mosaic Law
What does this even mean?
Christians love throwing this phrase around but what exactly does it mean to "fulfil" the law?
Does it mean to exemplify it? Because Jesus absolutely did not do that.
Does it mean to complete it? Because that's very heretical to suggest that it was incomplete before despite God saying multiple times that it is.
>So God gave him medicine-like miracles so that it's easier for people to accept him as God.
Existing immaterially but consciously for 4000 years is not a medicine-like miracle.
Not to mention it's a "miracle" that is totally imperceivable to anyone but Jesus. Which sounds like cult leader tactics.
"word of God" isn't the right words, but they are holy.
>Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
>this day
God is basically taking David on as his adopted son from this day forth. Not unlike the Christian concept of being "born again".
Obviously David was not literally conceived on that day. David was conceived some decades earlier to human parents.
Because Jesus contradicts, ignores and even outright denies various parts of the Torah constantly.
>Therefore, if a man, whether a gentile or a Jew, arises and performs signs and wonders, and says that G-d sent him to add to, or take away from, a mitzvah, or to institute a new mitzvah which we did not hear from Moses, or says that the commandments with which we have been commanded are not for eternity but are meant only for a temporary period, then he is a false prophet, for he has come to undermine the prophecy of Moses. His punishment is death by strangulation, which is the punishment for deliberately speaking in the name of G-d without having been commanded to do so. G-d told Moses that all the commandments are for eternity, and no man can accuse G-d of being deceitful.
Jesus is a false prophet of the highest order in this respect. The only mistake was not killing him in the right way.