ITT: how to tell if someone is historically illiterate

>>pol

Hitler was wrong

...

It's okay to play them, it's wrong to learn your history from them.

Like Civilization's creators said that they hope that people google "zulu empire" after playing as Zulus, rather than thinking CIV is realistic in any way

The nazis killed lots of jews. Just not in gas chambers.

But they did.

Carry on.

they post anime

>The British Empire wasn't a major force for good in the world

>going on an anime imageboard and complaining about anime

"The atomic bombings saved countless lives by preventing an invasion of mainland Japan"

well then two nukes weren't enough

I have lot of creative ideas but can't draw for shit. I envy whoever comes up with these and can create them.

Explain. I think that's 100% true but I'd like to hear your reasoning.

Welcome to Veeky Forums, mate

Thinks any North African civilization was Black.

The word saved is misused, the best way to put it is "countless lives were spared".
All this is just Yanks trying to justify what cannot be done. It wasn't anything but a demonstration of power. Pure and simple

But it was much more than a demonstration of power. They used it because they thought it was the only other eay to get Japan to surrender without having a mainland invasion.

>The Germans could've won the war, if it weren't for reality!

To summarise:
The Soviet intervention (and implicit agreement that the emperor would remain) were what made the Japanese surrender, not the atomic bombings. Japanese cities could already be obliterated by firebombings and the Japanese high command essentially gave zero fucks, the fact that this was then being done with nukes didn't change that.

Soviet intervention was what strategically bankrupted the Japanese, not the A-bomb.

Here is a good article on the subject, you may want to hit escape whilst the webpage is loading if a paywall blocks you.

foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/

>Posting anime outside of /a/

See my post and the article I linked to.

They did think of something else, and it was using considerable diplomatic capital to get the Russians involved, and ultimately it worked.

how fucking new are you

The Civil War was a clash between industrialization and feudal agrarian economies. Not even joking.

*feudal style

>It's okay to play them, it's wrong to learn your history from them.
Eh not really so long as you don't take it as gospel.

I learned about the majority of military equipment through games, such as the guns and tanks of WW2.

Now what worries me is BF1, most people will probably think all that mad experimental weapons in it were standard issue, whereas in a WW2 game the stuff you use was commonly used.

>retard sperging about anime is a /pol/ redditor
oh wow who could have guessed

Chattel slavery was far more brutal than European feudalism (the post Civil War sharecropping system had more in common with it and the South remained agrarian until the New Deal/WWII) but you're basically right that the North won due to vastly superior industrial output and rail transportation

Veeky Forums is not an imagebord for regular people who are interested in history and humanities.

Veeky Forums is an imageboard for weeaboos who are interested in history and humanities.

Well it did save lives, american lives...

>Veeky Forums is an imageboard for weeaboos who are interested in history and humanities.
Fucking this.

>Veeky Forums is an imageboard for weeaboos who are interested in history and humanities.
That's right.

>whereas in a WW2 game the stuff you use was commonly used.

Nah, you're mostly right. Mostly.

sounds interesting where can I find some more info on this

google isn't really giving me anything

Damn straight, all the normalfags from twitter and facebook can whine about anime reaction images all they want, but I'm only going to post more.

archive.org/stream/cannibalsallorsll00fitz#page/n5/mode/2up

This is the manifesto of one of the most extreme of the southern ideologues.

Many in the south thought of slavery as the bulwark that was protecting them from the industrial nihilism of the north. They rejected industrial capitalism, and ideals like equality and argued for slavery as a kind of agrarian non-Marxist socialism based around God and paternalist hierarchy.

>France had no reason for constructing/defending the Maginot Line
This is true though

So what was the civil war really fought over then?

Treblinka

Spotted the retard

Slavery. Sometimes the obvious answer is the correct one.

State's rights to keep slavery.

They could, as long as enough things changed, but then it wouldn't be Nazi Germany winning WWII

You should add how slavery is terrible for economical development, which the north sought after.

It's pretty good for the slave owners though.

>the Wehrmacht was the most modern army of its time!
That's true though.

No it wasn't. The German army during WW2 was actually one of the least motorized out of all the major powers.

It didn't develop shit though haha

>if Hitler was a gay black woman they totally could have won

At the outbreak of WWII, the only fully mechanized army in the world was the British Army. One of the main reasons Hitler didn't want to use gas, in addition to just personally hating the stuff having been hit by it in WWI, was that gas posed a serious threat to German supply lines should the wind shift, since the Germans still relied on literal horsepower.

Naw. Don't think that would've worked out well either. I bet she'd be bangable though.

Yes, but how are they going to do that? If the Germans got locked down in Leningrad, you think they're going to take Moscow? A city that is larger, even further away, and fully provisioned at the outset of the war?

>All wars happened because of religion.

>not the atomic bombings

Yeah, so, that's a load of bullshit.

>Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should We continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.
>uch being the case, how are We to save the millions of Our subjects, or to atone Ourselves before the hallowed spirits of Our Imperial Ancestors? This is the reason why We have ordered the acceptance of the provisions of the Joint Declaration of the Powers.

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast

Hirohito does not mention the Soviets at all. He at best alludes to them when mentioning "the general trends of the world have all turned against [Japan's] interest.", but the atomic bombs are specifically called out as a major reason for surrender, by the Emperor himself.

The Japanese considered the troops on the mainland to be dead men walking already. They were already written off. Moreover, Hirohito gains nothing in mentioning the atomic bombs but not mentioning the Soviet declaration of war as a reason for surrender.

Counterpoint:
The Soviets had no effective sealift capacity in the pacific. They had a handful of medium sized infantry transports received from the US (Project Hula) but no assault boats like the Higgins boats used at D-Day. Naval gunfire support was limited to destroyers and a couple cruisers. The handful of landings they did on Japanese islands were shitshows where they had to ferry troops ashore with whale boats, minesweepers, fishing trawlers, etc, and the invasions were almost repulsed by the Japanese. They also only had a small number of aircraft that could support a landing on the home isles, and those were mainly bombers which would be operating without fighter cover.

In summary the Russians kicked in the door in Manchuria, but wouldn't have been able to actually threaten a invasion of Japan. IMO a invasion would have fared about as well as Sealion.

Additionally US planning for Operation Coronet involved the widespread use of chemical weapons against Japanese cities ("The Most Deadly Plan" and "Another Alternative - POISON GAS", USNI Proceedings, Norman Polmar) and called for another 10-20 nuclear bombs to be built and used against tactical targets in Japan.

As an addendum, conservative estimates for the invasion of merely Kyushu - based on how the invasions of Iwo Jima and Okinawa had gone - anticipated around 500,000 Allied deaths and anywhere between 5 to 10 million Japanese deaths, most of the latter being civilians; all of this was WITHOUT knowledge of atomic bombs. So many Purple Hearts were minted for the anticipated invasion that to this day America is still using our backlog for current wars and conflicts.

The atomic bombs spared lives, and where the primary reason for Japanese surrender, and if not them, then the potential US/British/Australian/Other Allied invasion. It is conceivable that a potential Soviet invasion may have entered into the Japanese thoughts, but the Soviets were only just starting to gear up for a potential Pacific conflict, while America and her allies were already on Japan's doorstep, and would have been considered a far more pressing concern.

This.

2382535 here, I'll also note that if you go and total up the deaths that resulted from Japanese occupations and then divide them out over the duration of the start of the Japanese invasion of China to the end of WWII, they were effectively killing the same amount of people (and most of them civilians) as Hiroshima-Nagasaki every month or two.

And a prolonging of the war is also more money and material that's devoted away from rebuilding. Even in liberated countries that weren't under occupation like Denmark there were serious food shortages until the Marshal Plan kicked in. Hell, rationing didn't end in the UK until 1954!

Someday you guys will have to admit that the Maginot Line was a dumb idea.

>demonstrations of overwhelming power can't stop conflicts and reduce casualties

>Germany invented flying wings, the Ho 229 was a stealth fighter!
>wunderwaffe XYZ was the best German weapon and not the StuG III/Panzer IV/Fw 190
>wunderwaffe XYZ would have totally worked
>claims German jet engines were better than allied war/post war designs
>Stalin was planning to invade Germany first
>any reference to Shermans repeating British myths about them, relating to Ronsons (the slogan wasn't used until the 50s), or the book Death Traps
>T-34 had bad optics
>DERRR HUMAN WAVES
>clean Wehrmacht myth
>Rommel was a good general
>MacArthur was a good general
>repeats the Patton quote about fortifications
>Dresden wasn't a military target

>the pz4 was any match for the t34

It worked as intended and diverted the German attack through the low countries. However the Ardennes Forest was a weakpoint and the Germans were able to push through and split the British and French mobile forces.

Most of the line held out until weeks after the rest of the French military had been crushed. The fortifications near Metz were again used in 1944 to throw a big egg in General Patton's face and delay him for months while the rest of the German forces in the area retreated.

I'm born and raised in the Deep South, these folks are everywhere. Just ask "and the southern states wanted the right to do what, again?" And watch them try to not say "own slaves" for a few seconds.

Still love the south and my state though.

I'd say that Panzers with the KwK 40 (the long 75) were at parity with the M4 and T-34 1942/1943 models. They were inferior in material usage and design (lol hull armor that can be penned by AT rifles, lol nazi production wastage) but were otherwise about equal to the non-British competition.

Not sure about you cunts but I have never met someone who has claimed to have extensive historical knowledge or make bold claims about things. Most don't give a fuck.

>The Dark Ages was when technological progress went backwards because of the Church!

So was it not about the fact that if slavery ended most of the southern economy would have collapsed?

>>clean Wehrmacht myth
Do people actually believe that the Wehrmacht were all good bois who dindu nuffin and it was all dem evil SS mothafuckas who committed atrocities?

>>Dresden wasn't a military target
How was it a military target though?
They firebombed a city that was packed full of refugees from other cities who had fled the Russians

Real socialism has never been tried.

>Do people actually believe that the Wehrmacht were all good bois who dindu nuffin and it was all dem evil SS mothafuckas who committed atrocities?

Yep.

>How was it a military target though?

The city was a major railway hub and marshaling point supporting the fronts in the east. It had a large number of intact factories producing artillery, optics, ammunition, chemicals, etc.

>The city was a major railway hub and marshaling point supporting the fronts in the east. It had a large number of intact factories producing artillery, optics, ammunition, chemicals, etc.
So that's why they bombed the medieval city centre?

Bombing accuracy in WW2 was "minute of city" for the most part. And of course there's the added strain of displaced residents and the loss of skilled laborers and the psychological toll on the survivors.

Dresden also heavily supported the Nazi party in Hitler's election, so they deserved it. #doitagainharris

>Seamos libres, lo demás no importa nada.
Not even my countrymen know who said this baka.

careful with that edge user

This desu

>Things people with no historical knowledge say that people with no historical knowledge say

It'd be nice to see what the Chinese would've done to their half of a divided Japan, if it had been divvied up the same way Germany was. 1.5 million Germans went "missing" AFTER the war was over, so with 20 million Chinese dead and the rape of Nanking fresh on their minds, Communist China would have salted the earth, I imagine. The nips were pretty fortunate.

Well, you ain't wrong.

>not having 100% motorization means you can't be advanced

No, it means you can't be the MOST advanced.

read marx

There's people denying this?

Hmmmm

Germany was still tactically excellent and most military historians agree.

Don't even try arguing with these people. Veeky Forums is filled with white supremacists who think the world would be a better place if Hitler had won. The same types of people who voted Trump.

daily reminder that there are people this new

having good generals =/= modern army.

well being advanced in WW2 meant that yoi had a lot of motorized/mechanized infantry and excellent armor. the germans only achieved one of those things and even then they had a very small amount of excellent armor.

>Yep.

>"The Wehrmacht was just fighting for its country! The atrocities were all commited by the SS, the regular troops had nothing to do with it!"

Daily reminder that retards and wehraboos still parrot this even though all of the evidence points to the contrary

>Sykes-Picot agreement

The russkies would have steamrolled Manchuria like they did in Kalkhin Gol and the japs wouldn't have resources to keep fighting