Stab-in-the-back: Myth or inconvenient truth?

I don't think anyone had brought up /pol/ though?

The US casualties show that the german army could still fight,if the sparticus uprising had not occured it could withdraw across the Rhine and hold that line effectively.

The germans agreed to a truce mistakenly thinking they would get Wilsons peace initiative, and the revolt in its rear forced it to accept harsher terms.

>the germans had stockpiles enough ammo to fight until 1924.

They had lost literally 7,000 artillery pieces in three days by that point and were retreating at a slower pace than the Entente/Americans were advancing.

well yeah...the Americans went through a miniature version of fall 1914 as they figured out how war worked.

The Germans had no reserves. Foch was in supreme command of all 4 allied armies in France and Italy.

The only thing a longer war would have done was increase American and Japanese involvement and changed how the peace went down. Maybe with a break up of Germany and maybe with a Japanese occupation of the Russian Far East.

*three months

They had little left to fight with.

Reminder that Versaille was too kind.

>Germany admiralty: fuck it, let's make a suicide run on the British Grand Fleet
>Sailors: fuck that I want children

The real world isn't like a movie. Men need proper motivation and "muh honour" doesn't work on starving men who know the war is lost

The Spartacist Uprising occurred in 1919 after the war and was crushed by the paramilitary Freikorps. The Spartacist uprising wasn't as large as a full scale war. 3,000 died, but compared to the carnage that was the First World War that seems almost trivial. A solid chunk of the death toll probably also came from executions of the Spartacists by Freikorps members.

Agreed. The German Offensive ground to a halt when the German soldiers realized their enemies were well supplied and cozy. They started surrendering en masse after that.

So sailors disobeying lawful orders and revolting does not constitute a stab in the back to the german military?

The "stab in the back" as understood by its advocates was performed by politicians.

>The US casualties show that the german army could still fight,

Of course it could still fight, but it couldn't still win, and the longer the war lasted, the worse the peace would be.

>,if the sparticus uprising

The SPARTACIST uprising happened after the armistice, you idiot.

>occured it could withdraw across the Rhine and hold that line effectively.

No, it couldn't. They couldn't even effectively retreat from the lines they were opposing the Entente in.

>The germans agreed to a truce mistakenly thinking they would get Wilsons peace initiative,

The Germans agreed to a truce because it was a coinflip as to whether or not the Entente would be in Berlin before mass starvation set in.

If a majority of the military no longer wants to fight, then is it really a stab in the back?

>Allies reject Armistice
>continue to push into Germany killing more Germans and taking tens of thousands additional prisoners and hundreds of additional guns
>stop at the Rhine
>Italians sweep in through what used to be Austria and occupy Germany's industrial interior while it is literally completely undefended
>let the Germans attempt to turtle up
>continue blockade
>laugh as winter hits and hundreds of thousands to millions of more Germans die
>if they try to launch another offensive with what tiny strength they have left it becomes an even bigger fiasco than the Spring Offensive where they were at the peak of their power
>the French, Americans, and British crush it in a lopsided slaughter with their 2-1 superiority in men and 5-1 superiority in guns
>after that fails continue blockade until the Germans are forced to admit complete and total defeat lest their entire population starve to death

why couldn't we get this timeline?

Because it's retarded. There's none, ZERO reasons to believe that the Allies would stop at the Rhine, and if the armistice doesn't happen, they'll just keep advancing.

This ridiculous myth is the reason why the Allies had to raze Germany and let the Soviets rape it into oblivion. Only utter, undeniable, absolute defeat would keep nationalist retards from making up conspiracy theories like that.

>Ludendorff Gives Lenin and his associates a free ride to Russia to spread discontent
>Lenin succeeds brilliantly, toppling the old aristocracy and gets Russia out of the war
>This in turn causes the Russians fighting the Germans to defect, spreading Communist ideology to German troops
>This spreads to German cities, creating leagues of socialists who want out of the war
>German government has to spend time and resources to curtail Socialist activity

So basically:

HOL UP
U SAYIN
WE OUR OWN SABOTEURS N' SHEET

The only thing that could have saved Germany was the success of either of the Paris offensives.

Either that or Italy remaining neutral.

They could have won it, but didn't.

Case closed.

Yes there are zero reasons to stop at the Rhine, but tell me, considering the US took 50k casualties climbing some hills, how many could they take doing an opposed amphibious operation to get an army across the Rhine?

Depends a lot on what kind of shape the Germans make it to the Rhine with, but probably considerably less, given how increasing numbers of German troops were surrendering on contact instead of actually fighting.

Why is the cartoon depicting him as a chef?

>I discuss subjects that i literally know nothing about
go back to /pol/ already

>Either that or Italy remaining neutral.

this x1000000

...

The "stab in the back" is a half-truth. It's true that Germany was completely defeated in 1918, that it couldn't keep going in the war. Still, it was a dickish move by the Jews to try to take control over Germany in its hour of greatest need. This opportunism and blatant treason single-handedly destroyed 200 years of assimilation. No German could ever trust a Jew again after that.

I mean, imagine the United States go to war against China and loses, the economy collapses, society is hardly hit. At this moment, when Americans need unity to get things together, the entire Italian-American population tries to take control of the country in order to install an authoritarian mafia state. What do you thing regular Americans would think of Italians afterwards?

It's true. If Britain won, then that would mean the Ottoman Empire would collapse, and Britain would have occupied Palestine. The Jews stabbed Germany in the back by promising Britain that they would bring America into the war as long as the Jews can have Palestine.

>implying the Spartacist rebellion wasn't against the SPD government created when the German military revolted

This.

Always the fucking Jews.

unless you're the IJN
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ten-Go

>this retarded image
You might be misinformed the first million times you post it, but by this point I'm pretty sure you are purposefully disingenuous.

Spoon feed me, what kind of hat is that and why does the Jew have tits?

>a dickish move
No, it fucking wasn't. There is no such things as a "dickish" move when it comes to politics and power. They were simply trying to take control of the country.

Phrygian cap

Thanks user.

6 million Jews died as a result.

Actually, he is attacking the credibility and knowledge of your arguement, which is an arguement in itself. Sorry you are anti intellectual, populist meme mind scum.

Nice meme.

He attacks my knowledge with a back to pol meme, sorry but dont defend morons who think their vacuous opinions matter

You had already been replied to by others and were objectively shown to be speaking with zero knowledge (for example about the spartacist uprising). So, again, go back to /pol/ where you can meme about shit you don't know with others from your hugbox.

This thread is about the perceived stab in the back theory

I have posted in this thread in good faith while all you have tried to do is shoot me down with your memes, you have failed because no-one has provided any evidence that the socialist uprising in 1918 was not a stab in the back, except with broad "the german army was finished anyway" memes.

I said it could withdraw behind the rhine and stop the allies and what do I get? No argument just your a moron

All of your responses are not adding to the discussion so maybe you should leave

>OOMMGGGZZZ OPINIONS I CANT HANDLE THEM
>SOMEBODY BRING TAMPONS MY VAGINA IS LEAKING
either an ugly woman or a pretentious manbaby posting, you can guess by the way the post formed, nothing but insults and low-quality ccusations
posters like you are truly scum, you accuse everybody of what you're guilty of in the first place

Are you literally retarded? The spartacist uprising happened well after the war was over, and was against the new social democrat government. This has already been answered in and .

Good post, user. I truly wonder why some people request that /pol/tards go back to their containment board after seeing your invaluable contributions.

Quit replying to bait

you can go to reddit history board if you want history with heavy kool-aid leftist ideology leaning discussion

I guess having an at least minimum knowledge of the end of ww1 and the spartacist uprising before discussing them instead of repeating /pol/ memes is being a leftist.

jokes on you I don't even know what happened in the last 30 years because history is being twisted for ideological gain

Just to save you from more retardation

>The first acts of revolution were triggered by the policies of the German Supreme Command and its lack of coordination with the Naval Command. In the face of defeat, the Naval Command insisted on trying to precipitate a climactic battle with the British Royal Navy by means of its naval order of 24 October 1918. The battle never took place. Instead of obeying their orders to begin preparations to fight the British, German sailors led a revolt in the naval ports of Wilhelmshaven on 29 October 1918, followed by the Kiel mutiny in the first days of November. These disturbances spread the spirit of civil unrest across Germany and ultimately led to the proclamation of a republic on 9 November 1918. Shortly thereafter, Emperor Wilhelm II abdicated his throne and fled the country.

The revolutionaries, inspired by socialist ideas, failed to hand over power to Soviet-style councils as the Bolsheviks had done in Russia, because the leadership of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) opposed their creation. The SPD opted instead for a national assembly that would form the basis for a parliamentary system of government

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Revolution_of_1918–19

It worked for the Japanese.

The german revolution does not equate the spartacist uprising, you giant retard. The spartacist uprising started in 1919.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacist_uprising

Im aware the sparticist revolution started in 1919, im saying the socialist revolution of 1918 contributed to the stab in the back claim.

Can you not perceive that in my posts?

>Im aware the sparticist revolution started in 1919
Are you? Let's see:
>The US casualties show that the german army could still fight,if the sparticus uprising had not occured it could withdraw across the Rhine and hold that line effectively.
>if the sparticus uprising had not occured it could withdraw across the Rhine and hold that line effectively
Either you believe that german communists were able to break causality or you were spouting shit about something you knew nothing about. You tell me.

One spelling error and you go autistic spaz?

This is why you shouldnt be posting

>spelling error
:^)

Suddenly, it's a spelling error to think that something could've been prevented by something that happens a year later.

Holy shit, the rationalizations you /pol/-retards employ.

So just to be clear.
You're claiming that because he mistakenly conflated the Spartacist uprising that occurred in January with the separate but still Marxist revolts of November (a mere two months earlier), that somehow makes his linking Marxism with Germany's precipitous surrender unreasonable?

dem titties tho

That's not me.
Attributing an effect to a supposed cause that takes place after the effect is unreasonable to anyone that isn't hopelessly retarded, which is why he had to backtrack massively. The only reason he mentions/cares about the spartacist uprising is because he is repeating /pol/tard propaganda like a mindless drone, which tries to link it to the german defeat because jews were overrepresented in the spartacist uprising, but not in the kiel mutiny.

How fucking small is that guys hand?

Your the one bringing the pol baggage into a history thread

Sad

Not really. I'm calling /pol/ propaganda what is objectively /pol/ propaganda. For example the pic in purposefully mixing the german revolution and the spartacist uprising comes from /pol/.
But whatever user, it's not what the discussion is about.

>Attributing an effect to a supposed cause that takes place after the effect is unreasonable to anyone that isn't hopelessly retarded,

Not when the events occurred within months of each other and involved the same participants (the Spartacists were founded in 1915 and would logically have participated during the November revolution), in which case it is a perfectly understandable error to make.

but the German revolution and the Spartacist uprising cannot be separated as the Spartacist uprising was simply the Spartacus League continuing their revolutionary actions against their more "moderate" comrades in the SPD when they were prevented by them from forming a a government that mirrored that of the Soviet Union.

Pretending that the two are unrelated is highly dishonest.

You are just trying to rationalize your position now ("would logically have participated" is not a fact, it's a desperate speculation). They were not part of the mutiny that started the revolution, in fact their leaders were in prison and the spartacus league dissolved.

>the Spartacist uprising cannot be separated as the Spartacist uprising was simply the Spartacus League continuing their revolutionary
The spartacist uprising was a small part of the german revolution that happened well after it had started. Implying that the leader of the spartacus league leaded the german revolution and that they caused the german defeat is, again, disingenous (and logically impossible). It's a lie for obvious political reasons.

>were prevented by them from forming a a government that mirrored that of the Soviet Union
More /pol/ memes. German communists were more like mensheviks.

>would logically have participated" is not a fact, it's a desperate speculation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacus_League
>Its period of greatest activity was during the German Revolution of 1918, when it sought to incite a revolution by circulating the newspaper Spartacus Letters.[2]

Yes they were clearly dissolved and sitting at home twiddling their thumbs.

Yes, after Liebknecht and Luxemburg were freed from prison, which was three days before armistice.....

Going to sleep. Maybe some other kind user will take on the role of educating you.

making pretend you can completely separate the German and spartacist revolutions seems wonky desu

>Educating = making you agree with my viewpoint
Fuck off back to Facebook you kike

Truth, thats why removing Jews helped Germany win next big war.

Oh wait ...

Germany woild absolutely still have lost, and decisively, but not so badly that the treaty would be signed the way it was. Also, the 1918 revolution was horrific and came when Germany was at it's weakest, so it's no surprise anyone was bitter about it.

how would they deal with the naval blockade and the possibility of an allied offensive through the now surrendered Austria?

What should Versailles have done? Split Germany in half?

My question is, if the uprisings were a stab in the back, does that mean , that had britain lost the war, would they blame it on the micks who started the 1916 uprising and genocide the micks?

reinstate the holy roman empire

Ireland was more like a colony of GB, it's different than a minority culture within your homeland.

Cancel Unification, mutilate Prussia (giving Poland its rightful clay would be one of best ways to do it).
Additionally blame Germany/Prussia for all things and support individual Germans states identify as opposed to general german one.

They also should have relocated Germany back to the Ruhr, but of course the Americans had to ruin it like everything else

cut all german trigger fingers

none of that would've been necessary if France and the UK hadn't tolerated Hitler for so long, and handed him Czechoslovakia bound and gagged.

>The military stabbed the military in the back

really fries the neurons

A larger percentage of the Jewish population fought in the German Army than most groups. There were entire Jewish battalions.

>muh heritage Americans believe they're Italians

Germany lost at the Marne

Of course it wasn't fucking true. Germany lost the war fair and square, well as much it can be for a war.

The whole anti-Semitic occult thing had a long history in Germany and isn't really surprising that it went into overdrive when Germany faced some of the worst conditions in the those post ww1 years. They were already struggling even before the great depression.

The united states was the only one who got the right idea that grinding Germany's face into the dirt and trying to humiliate them and shower them in debt as much as possible probably wasn't the brightest idea. Which is why reconstruction and rehabilitation was much more focused on after ww2.

>The united states was the only one who got the right idea that grinding Germany's face into the dirt

that was the French, not the U.S. America, or at least Wilson, wanted extremely light reparations if any, and to go back to status quo ante bellum as much as possible in western Europe.

What we got was something of a compromise between the two.

Fun fact: America loaned the money that would wind up paying most of the French war indemnity, but because America forgave its part of the indemnity against Germany, but not their loans to France and Britain, most of that indemnity went right back to the U.S. as the French had to repay their war debt.

The defanging of Germany after WWI was what caused WWII. Completely right IMO

>U.S. America, or at least Wilson, wanted extremely light reparations if any

That's what I was saying

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you.

>government tries to fuck the military
>military says no
>FUICKING COMMIE JEWS BETRAYTEDS OUR MILITARY AND MADE US LOSE
is this what Stormfags actually believe?

Military cuts not so much. It would take textbooks to really explain ww2 properly. The whole world went crazy after ww1. The destruction, suffering, and misery shook the established outlook on things and led to a lot new thinking.

The harsh economic punishments put on Germany and than the depression exacerbating them further is what really drove the extremist takeover in Germany primarily.

The effect ww1 had the social fabric of the world afterwards is something that is immensely overlooked and forgotten. WW2 overshadowing it and driving away attention to itself is to blame imo.