Extraterrestrial Slavery

For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord's freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ's slave.

slaves or extermination as long as we take their resources

kinda depends whos on top

If their trying to literally exterminate us we should wage war until they desist. If they don't desist until they're all dead, then kill them all.

The morality of the act would depend more on how it's done. I really, really, don't like bombing civilians and I don't see that much of a difference between atom bombs and conventional explosives.

>If humanity were to expand into the stars, would it be moral for us to enslave less developed alien civilizations in protection of humanity's supremacy?

Yes.

(White)Man's Burden.

*they're

Sorry, tired and english as a second language don't make for good grammar.

Haha fucking this. Gotta say I'm a Gallente man here. Probably because I'm an edgelord neocon.

How should we best go about doing it though? Spanish/Belgian style stuff or more like English/French soft colonialism?

Can't the case be made if we're talking religion that insectlike hive mind aliens are probably more analogous to demons than creations of God?

>because I'm an edgelord neocon.

Fucking kill yourself.

Angels?

>The solution to that seems to be to mimic Columbus

He meant that Ayylmaos would be more advanced than us and would prey on Earth's natural resources. Without technological superiority, we couldn't mimic Columbus.

I would say no and no. If they are hostile, it would be more efficient, barring extreme labour shortages, to just kill them off entirely. If they are sentient and not hostile, why enslave them?

Jej it was just a meme

>I'm a Gallente man here.

ACTUALLY kill yourself please.

It's a meme it's a meme

I understand that those aliens may be superior to us. But why shouldn't we enslave those that are inferior, to make our civilization stronger when we encounter a group that is superior?

>Caldaricucks can't even retake their homeworld and are forced to share it with the Gallente
stay buttblasted senpai

Slavery is wrong, it being the domestication of intelligent beings.
Slavery sucks because machines can do the job better than some faggot who hates you and doesn't wanna be there.
Slavery is a poor system because if your slaves become ill or injured, you're responsible, or out a slave.
If you're paying some poor bastard to fix your robot "slaves", it's not your problem if he breaks his arm playing football.
It's also not your problem if he goes into debt, which is on him since he owns himself.
What's gonna happen is something like the Federation in Star Trek. A bunch of alien races living under, and participating in, human government. Effectively, being human as far as the law and government are concerned.

I'm really hopeful for a human superiority first contact scenario.
Best case, we stumble across a slave ship that's had a mutiny, and the slaves join us. We pump out combat ships based on the new tech, free the rest of them, and then we have 2 full "slave" races if you include the squid-heads we just shit on to free the rat-boys.
The galactic government catches wind of all this and decides the humans have come too far, too fast. After a small series of battles where the humans are beaten, but not easily, the GalGov caves in and extends membership to the new human empire/federation/republic/happening.

>free human labour
By the time this scenario comes around the main competitor to slave labour would be machines.

That's true.

Would slavery have any advantages over mechanization in that case?

It'd be smarter to just make them heavily reliant on us whether through use of some of our lesser technologies or through making them worship us if they lack the scientific understanding for that.

No they are not human, there is some stupid idea that intelligent aliens would not be racist actually they would be very racist because they would intelligent thus not care about things like outliers but look for consistent average variables in a species.

>Im not a stupid ape like them Lord Zeglorp
>Myzorp that thing just spoke to me kill it immediately
>With pleasure my lord

Intelligent aliens view humans the same way humans view ants, they dont give a shit what we look like or what we care about , or or our feelings. They would be so smart that they could modify our brains to always like our enslavement in the first place.

Slavery on a space scale has nothing to do with economy user its to do with the slavers being evil. Humans just love to inflate their egos and nothing makes a human more egocentric than treating another sapient being like complete shit(this is the source of bullying behavior btw).

It's either enslavement or extermination, coexistence would be almost impossible, we wage wars against ourselves, do you think we'd have any problems fighting one against another species?

What would be the point of large scale enslavement? Like some other user said, you'd assume by that point in our technological development there would be no need for large scale "man"power work to be done that machines couldn't do.

The point is to trip your ego.

>would it be moral for us to enslave less developed alien civilizations in protection of humanity's supremacy?
We did that before and stopped it.

What is protective about enslavement? Just kill them all.

>Implying robots wouldn't make manual labor obsolete

If we find any intelligent civilization, the best course of action is to exterminate them, in order to prevent any future conflicts and clear their home planet for human colonization.

If they come from a very different type of planet, you may need then for mining and what not.

Imagine if the aliens evolved in a methane based atmosphere or something. It would be cheaper to have 500 soldiers force 10000 natives to work, than to outfit 10000 humans and pay them.

Or, if the aliens evolved on a high gravity world, you could use them or their technology as more efficient manual laborers on earth.

If and when we do find underdeveloped aliens, some bean counter administration would figure out if it was best to enslave, ally, or exterminate. It's case by case.

even then we should keep some for the hope of peace later
even if you reject that they should be studied extensively, you never know what compounds and genetic material might be in their bodies that would be beneficial to us

Also, you could control breeding policy to ensure they never surpass a certain need. Never let them become a threat, while keeping with labor demands.

We should respect their space and check our privilege.

you're forgetting that outside of children with a mean streak, no human goes out of their way to kill ants, precisely because they don't care
if you want to make an analogy like that you should use mosquitoes or lice or something

I fluctuate on the right answer to this from time to time. Part of me says and and part says no.

On one hand, sentient creatures probably deserve some amount of respect no matter what they are. At the same time, their concepts of morality and culture may be so far removed from our own that there's simply no way to coexist after contact. Even taking the route of applying the rights of man to aliens, what happens if the aliens live in a caste system or some such where part of their population is kept as social pariahs, which is the very thing we seek not to do? We can interfere and force our will on them, or we can say they have a right to govern themselves and condemn multitudes of their own to something we see as injustice.

And then, there's always the very simple stance of seeing them as competing organisms and their continued existence allows for their eventual rise and potential domination of other species, possibly even our own. From that point of view, it's entirely likely to see them as a threat that must be eliminated before they can eliminate us since peaceful coexistence is never guaranteed. All it would take is for the balance of power to tip in their favor and allow them to annihilate anything they don't like.

Doesn't massacring presumably an entire civilization of aliens, even if they are lesser than us, seem like a massive use of resources? Perhaps if we develop an interstellar empire, couldn't aliens take the place of machines in far away or remote locations, where the use of machines may require constant repair and technical knowledge that isn't available.

This is what I mean. Certain aliens might have traits that would make them more suited to doing certain work.

Why wouldn't they challenge a civilization that could be a potential threat? Not everyone is going to hold hands and sing kumbaya, just look at the modern world. They might be influenced by their religion, by conquering natural resources, or just by their own nature.

well which is it? are we a credible threat or are we just a curiosity?

also their religious and philosophical views are relevant but also a complete crap shoot, there's all of human history to pull from to try to begin to understand what they might potentially believe
as for natural resources, I would hope that they would first try to terraform and mine nearby uninhabited worlds, like we want to do with Mars

Oh senpai, there's these things called "robots." Pretty cool, if I say so myself.

Depends on how we're defining slavery, if you mean in a similar form to human on human slavery than no I don't see that as moral in any case involving a sentient being (I'd include robots in this as well but that's another story). If we're in a situation like
Where another species either holds values incompatible to our own like being slavers themselves or if they're going full galactic domination I'd fully support subjugation into a Human cultural hegemony

Even so though, the ideas and values of a species can change over time, and when they do, who's to say we won't be on the receiving end of a renewed call for interstellar dominance?

I think one of the best things for certain would be to ensure that any other interstellar species remains confined or locked to its own planet or solar system if possible. That's not to say we have to be cruel to them via slavery or any other sort of oppressive methods, but as soon as a species is able to leave its home system, that opens up an entirely new issue that they can spread and overwhelm us to the extent that we cannot contain them or prevent their eventual rise.

Depends on how human they look and if we can breed with their women. That is if they have any to begin with.

So basically we keep them under semi-colonial rule?

No. Edginess and moralfaggotry aside, doing this would be suicide.

Humans only live 120 years tops and interstellar travel takes a lot longer. So if we, as we are, find a whole alien civilization with sentient beings, then most likely the universe is teeming with life and far more complicated than we could ever imagine. If this is the case we shouldn't fuck around too much, we should have something like the prime directive.

The goal of expansion should overwhelmingly be to identify threats to our survival, not plunder. In fact degenerates like most of you would have to be considered a liability and kept away. We need goody2shoes like cpt Kirk.

So we enslave some fuzzy bunny like creatures. We notice playing video games against them that their reaction times and ability to learn and develop new skills are incredible. A new bunny player can figure out exploits and how to kill a human tournament champion after just a few hours of play.

As slaves they realize their survival depends on the perception they are useless as fighters but useful as slaves, so they keep this under wraps and worm their way into our society. Their talents render them masters of manipulating the physical world and the brutality they have seen has utterly set in their mind the necessity of wiping humanity from existence. To them it is final and complete, like 1+1=2, it must happen and every fiber of their being will be devoted to this task.

One day we let slip, some bunny is used to manage the water supply, he figures out a way to kill thousands, but not yet, he contacts the bunny underground and communicates using a kind of morse code by hitting a pipe with a screwdriver. Once everything is in place the plan is put into action. By the time human authorities respond they have constructed starships with weapons and crews that surprise our overengineered and inexperienced hulks. We can't defeat them and in time the last humans are refugees fleeing into unknown space in our fastest ships.

What about wage slavery? Is it moral for us to make them do backbreaking work for pennies a day?

Ehhh... and I should point this out to the whole thread... Stephen Hawking was drawing the comparison with Columbus, but if you read his book, resource grabbing and slavery isn't what he was actually worried about, for one damned good reason:

In a universe with no FTL travel, the amount of resources you need to get to another solar system, is practically unimaginable. It's theoretically possible, yes, but by the time you can do it en mass, and regularly, you've ended all your natural resource problems.

If a spacefaring race comes across non-spacefaring race, assuming FTL isn't a thing, they are NOT going to use them for labor (unless the species is just somehow friggin amazing at it). A race that can regularly travel the universe en mass, has no natural resource shortages, period. They might have some artificial ones, but they'd be of a sort that is very difficult, if not impossible, to mass produce, and mere brutes aren't going to help with that.

In such a universe, when a spacefaring race meets one confined to its planet, there are three possibilities as to the result:
1) They are set aside as a biological preserve and largely left to themselves (best case scenario - maybe you take some unfortunate samples, but that's about it, you got the tech to duplicate the genetics from one sample).

2) Since you pretty much have to have discovered biological immortality (or mechanical conversion) to be a spacefaring race, and thus are forward thinking... You wipe them out preemptively before they can develop into a threat.

3) If you're some sort of bleeding heart superrace, you try to "uplift" them. This may not be pleasant for them, and will probably result in their future generations being unrecognizable to the original species.

Now, if FTL is a thing, and it's fairly easy to do - that's a whole other bag of worms.

Assuming we discover a low-resource method of faster than light travel (otherwise see - no reason to do that), while it'd be a bad idea, I could certainly see us doing it. Particularly if there was an active threat to our supremacy.

Whether they "deserve" "rights", is up to the humans of the time... But by modern moral standards, of course they would. (Also you mean sapience. Sentience kinda comes with not being a plant. Though we give animals some rights too these days.)

But even these days, we'll collectively toss our morality out the window in a heartbeat for the sake of even economic survival. In an intergalactic war scenario in which we needed to mine stuff fast, any protest would be completely ignored. I'm sure there'd be some though - hell, people bitch about us ecologically scarring planets that don't even support life right now.

Assuming the FTL is some sorta teleportation type deal, thus we aren't tossing super-destructive relativistic objects at each other, it would come to bite us in the ass though. I mean, at first, it'd probably be a series of proxy wars over these slave labor mining planets, but eventually, those guys are going to work out FTL as well (or perhaps steal it). They'll teleport off to who knows where, build an army of vengeance, and come back to find us.

Additionally, any species that is a result of such a revolution, and has been around a lot longer, and gets wind of our activities, will immediately take us out on principle.

Given how long the galaxy has supported life, such a species could be billions of years ahead of us, and may just be smarter naturally to begin with and thus effectively billions more, so it could be a very one-sided battle resulting in an extinction that we probably deserved.

sex slaves

Why is nobody defining what kind of slaves they'd be? You have to be pretty fucking stupid to think we'd still need living organism field hands by the time we're exploring and projecting power across the stars. With that in mind, what is it that we need them to do, or rather that we'd be forcing them to do? If we forced them to stay inside an enclosed bubble where we could watch them grow and mature while being unable to escape, would that count as slavery, or just imprisonment? We'd be forcing them to direct their efforts on their own world instead of any kind of interstellar colonization/terraforming/whatever

wait this shit ain't history or humanities really

>Would they deserve the same rights as humans if they possess sentience?
...Which makes it more Veeky Forums than Veeky Forums though it is pushing it (as all & humanities does) and it's hard not to get hung up on particulars like you just did.

He's really asking, "Do all sapient life forms deserve human rights?" - even if it is still kind of a crap vague question.

Pretty much. Ensure they never catch up, and it won't matter what their opinions are because they won't be able to enforce them on us. They would, however, probably grow to resent us, but at the end of the day, I'd rather they resent us for being held back to a single system than have them match our size and find another reason to hate us anyway.

It'll suck for us when we have a bunch of internal strife that prevents us from maintaining that colonial blockade and they take what tech we leave behind and build on it.

...or some much older and advanced species that was once so treated finds out about it, and decides we need to be taught a darwinistic lesson.

Honestly that's a really autistic scenario

I think in the case we have a biologically superior species at our mercy at any point, it would be better to takes steps to exterminate them quietly than leave them alive at all. If the universe turns out to be full of species intellectually superior to our own, we may be doomed anyway since it's only a matter of time before we wind up marginalized and out competed even at peace.

...and yet it happened here.

Those who fail to learn from history, get killed by poor extraterrestrial management decisions.

Alien slaves (if primal) are cheaper, may be equally productive, and could potentially breed faster than we can shit out expensive machines.

So it would really just be the security costs of administering all of those slaves that becomes a problem?

ITT: Your terrible ideas make me feel better about mine.

Why do all sapient life forms deserve the same rights as humans, especially when failing to dominate other sapient life forms threatens the continued existence of humanity?

We give many non-sapient life certain rights these days. Certainly sapient life would "deserve" it by modern standards.

If our existence was on the line, however, they certainly wouldn't get it. We don't even do that for other humans (at least not collectively).

But there's a difference, for instance, animal rights. Animals have no threat to our way of life, whereas you can clearly see how lesser alien species can mobilize against us. If they are truly so threatening, a massive war to wipe them out would be incredibly costly and thus slavery could be a potential solution, though it isn't perfect. Just look at how it took the United States to fight the Indians as an example.

Well, unlike the indians, for spacefaring humans, wiping out a less developed species is a hell of a lot cheaper than enslaving them. Just drop a rock on em - or, if you're patient, find a big one and paint the right side white. Either way, end of problem.

I assume he means we're enslaving them to mine resources for us to use against some other species that IS a threat, either that, or just to increase our resource holdings in hopes of maintaining our dominance against potential ones. (This again all assume cheap FTL.)

Morally, that's fucked up. But necessity tends to override the spook of morality, particularly on large scales, or if you're already in an existential war.

>Animal develops sapience
>Oh well suddenly it's a threat, time to kill it off!

Is it even a wonder that the world's most intelligent species are all endangered save for man and magpie?

...Also depends on why you enslave them.

I mean, if we come across a species that's much like our own, save quite a bit more violent, to find they just discovered nukes and are about to off themselves. If we're so much more advanced we can come down and disarm them, and feel that we can help them by enslaving them... I suppose you can argue that's on some level moral. It'd be interfering with free will, but maybe only so much so as a parent to a child.

Granted, it could easily come back to bite us in the ass, but well, so could enslaving them for entirely selfish reasons.

I suspect a super-advanced, more forward thinking, and more paranoid species might just wipe out any life it found, sapient or not, just in case.

I mean, we can be dicks - but it's kind of an accident of evolution that our empathy instinct actually extends to other species at all. We might actually be one of the nicer species in the galaxy.

Ask the Centauri how that went for them, both times.

>it's kind of an accident of evolution that our empathy instinct actually extends to other species at all

It was neither an 'accident of evolution' nor does our 'empathy instinct' extend to other species. We happily killed off the neanderthals. The species our empathy does extend to, the cute domesticates, serve valuable practical and emotional purposes to us. Survival of the cutest rules, and people love their dog and cat over any wild animal on a typical basis.

The development of anthropomorphism in human culture was a necessary prerequisite for the domestication of animals. You need to be able to project human traits onto a dog if it is to hunt with you. You need to be able to extend base emotionality into a horse if you're going to calm it down enough to not buck on you. You need to show cattle conform before hooking them up to the plow. It's the reason the first human artworks ever are all zoomorphic. Doubly so considering they didn't have 10000 years of selective breeding on their side.

Without domestication, all human civilization, which, until the Industrial era, was driven by the mechanical power of beasts, would not exist. Simple as that. You need domesticates in order to form a civilization.

>The species our empathy does extend to, the cute domesticates, serve valuable practical and emotional purposes to us. Survival of the cutest rules, and people love their dog and cat over any wild animal on a typical basis.
That's exactly what I'm talking about though - that's an accident of evolution - we like cute things that look like our babies. It could have just as easily gone in such a way that the identifier was something much more unique than vague appearance, such as an enzyme or pheromone.

We've, through social evolution, extended that to less cute things, to a degree, and that's only continuing to expand. (Even if it seems our ability to extend empathy to one another is improving a bit slower.) Tiny social instincts get writ large in the grander social civilization.

Another species might not have any such need for beasts of burden or they might have had ways of controlling them that didn't require empathy. If they've been around long enough, they may had replaced all their beasts of burden with more efficient artificial counterparts millions of years ago and thus wiped them all out - maybe wiped out every species that wasn't there own, once they no longer had need of them. It may also be that part of their environment simply required them to be a lot more picky about what they extended their empathy to.

They might, at this point, not even think of anything but themselves as life at all.

There's simply a lot more evolutionary possibilities for empathy not extending to other species - this planet's life path may very likely the exception to the rule.

Though it would be a sad state of affairs for the universe, if we're the "nice guys".

It comes down to asking ourselves, do we feel more secure in attempting to build goodwill and hope it will be returned or never letting an alien species off their leash? I could see the former being a better alternative though in a universe where there's multiple species rather than a single one since each can serve as a foil to each other (This one wants to kill the other, but the ten or so races together have signed a galactic accord that prevents interstellar war.), but then that's a whole other can of worms.

>never letting an alien species off their leash?
Never say never. Eventually, it will bite you in the ass.

Granted, so will the other way - but at least you won't have earned it.

I've read somewhere that it's thought that a specific type of parasite found in cats actually affects the minds of humans to produce that semi-euphoric state from them, but I don't remember where I read that. It would certainly make sense in the behavior of some cat lovers out there.

Which makes me wonder, if there's any truth to that, what would happen to us as a whole if we found an alien species with a similar trait? Say, a pheromone that induces a euphoric state in humans to the point it clouds our judgement? Would we fight amongst each other attempting to do something about it?

So don't be an immoral shithead.

I don't know, I suppose it simply comes down to if we think we're able or not. Neither prospect is very encouraging, and certainly makes a case for extinction of sentient beings.

This, imperialism/fascism is the only system that makes sense if civilization goes intergalactic

Well, toxoplasmosis works to its own ends, not the cat's, and only works because it evolved alongside mammals. ...But for that scenario, you can always watch any Star Trek episode involving Orion slave girls.

Toxoplasmosis infects more people through pork products than cat ownership. Just because cats are their natural host doesn't mean they can't harbor themselves in any other mammal.

>I don't know, I suppose it simply comes down to if we think we're able or not.
Well, I'd hope we'd learn enough from our own history that we can't - but if there's anything I've learned from history, it's that we don't learn from history.

In an easy FTL universe, I don't see us running around and wiping out all life we see though (at least not above board). People wouldn't stand for it.

In a non-FTL universe, however, by the time we got to be immortals cruising the universe with our kugelblitzed black holes, we'd be such a radically different species on every level that I just don't know. I'd like to think enough of our current humanity would stick that we wouldn't be omnicidal gods, but... Hmmm... Well, at least we probably wouldn't bother enslaving anyone.

No.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

>enough from our own history that we can't
* enough from our own history *to know* that we can't

There are things worse than death.

It depends how close we are to expanding out into the universe. If it's as crazy far off as it seems today, I'd say we're a curiosity. They'll be able to tell how much of a threat we really are.

Because, for one, they are reading your posts and adding it to the weight of evidence in favor of killing us all.

Keep in mind that non-FTL aliens are probably going to have biological immortality (or mechanical). When you're regularly making ~50,000 year journeys, you take the looooooooong view.

Though they also may be sophisticated enough to know we'll never get off this rock, and thus leave us alone. But if that's not predictable, or they don't wanna bother to check, as we've been saying, they may just preemptively wipe out any life bearing world.

On the plus side, we'd never see it coming, and it'd probably be quick.

We're literally doing nothing.

Dude, if the aliens are browsing Veeky Forums, we are totally dead.

this is honestly a great philosophical question because it is applicable to the past, present and future

To show the dominance of Humankind over filithy, inferior Xeno scum
To bad cucks will import millions of ravenous insectoid xenos that will regularly implant their eggs into hapless humans for the sake of ((diversity)) if our current trends are anything to go by

I feel like humanity would enter some kind of solidarity. We'd find it egregious to consider enslaving blacks, even people on the alt right, but I think that there would be suitable discussion on the rights of nonhumans.

its literally the same issue with animal rights, and we see no problem with eating those so I cant think of a single reason not to enslave aliens