Veeky Forums book lists

ok i'll post some of my charts and people can ask if they want me to remake it

I made this one for fun, but i realize i want to add a few more books so i'll probably make a new version sometime soon

...

What's wrong with Gibbon?

...

>Basically a guide on how to go from Ancient Greece to modern times as quickly as possible while still not half-assing it.
It would be a history of what is commonly referred to as "Western civilization", but I wouldn't start from the Hellenic peoples.

I would follow this roadmap:

Dawn of Man
Indo-European Linguistic Community
Ancient Near East
Greece: Bronze Age, Poleis, Hellenism
Rome: Kingdom, Republic, Empire
Middle Ages
Reformation
Reinassance
Age of Discovery
Age of Revolutions 1: Scientific Revolution, Enlightenment
Age of Revolutions 2: Absolutism, French and American Revolutions
Age of Revolutions 3: Commercial Revolution, First and Second Industrial Revolutions
Great Divergence, Colonialism, Imperialism
WWI
WWII
Cold War
Postmodernity

Needless to say that on each of these topics there is a colossal amount of literature, deservingly so.

Might as well ask here.
I want to get into stoicism. Which book should I start with?

Meditations

Stalingrad by Antony Beevor must be on there.
Or any of his books desu.

Anyone got any Austria-Hungary essential list?

Thanks.

>Middle Ages
too broad and vague. I'd divide up this category into:
late antiquity/ early middle ages (early germanic kingdoms [lombards, visigoths, franks, vandals] carolingians, anglo-saxons, irish, early byzantine empire, islamic [cordoba caliphate] and viking invasions, slavic migrations, threats from the steppe)
1000-1350- (ottonians/HRE, normans, rise of centralized english and scottish states, ""formation of france"", hundred years' war, kievan rus, early state formation in eastern and northern europe, the resurgence of the italian city-states and trade [hanseatic league], crusades [northern crusades, levant, reconquista, crusader ] and heresies [walensians, albigensians, hussites, lollards], decline of the byzantines), black death
1350-1650
renaissance, reformation/counterreformation, wars of religion, military revolution, humanism, italian wars, fall of byzantium, formation of maritime empire, rise of muscovy, golden ages of poland-lithuania and dutch republic and ottomans, rise of the hasburgs, decline of spain, rise of france.
1650-1848- "the ancien regime"
the rise of england, the rise of the fiscal-military states in prussia/france/britain/russia, the "second hundred years' war"[i.e. 9 years' war to napoleonic wars], enlightenment, scientific revolution, the "first-wave" of imperialism, revolutions [1688, 1776, 1789, 1791 (haiti)] napoleonic and french revolutionary wars.
1815-1920- the balance of power
imperialism 2: electric buggaloo, european and british hegemony, rise of nationalisms unifications [italy/germany] and romanticism, victorian england, liberalism and conservatism, official nationalisms (russia, ottoman empire, japan), the crisis of land empires (mughals, ottomans, chinese, austria hungary, russia), scramble for africa, the eastern question, great game, industrialisation, early globalisation, social, economic and political transformations "modernity", the rise of far left and far right ideas [1870-1920]

not op but
i'll write it down on my list of charts to make. I may not be able to make it right away, but if anyone has any requests i'd be happy to make some charts. Veeky Forums needs more reading guides

Currently brainstorming some lists. I currently have the lists divided up as such:

Ancient Greece
Ancient Rome
Late Antiquity
Early Great Britain and Ireland
Medieval Europe
The Islamic Middle East
The Renaissance
France in the Early Modern Age (King Louis XIV, the Enlightenment in France, French Revolution, Napoleonic Wars)
Early Modern Age (Industrial Revolution, Scramble for Africa, Victorian Era)
Age of Discovery
Early United States (Beginnings, Revolutionary War, Civil War)
The First World War
The Second World War
The Cold War
Modern Middle East
China (all eras)
Japan (all eras)

These are all things I'm at least somewhat comfortable with. I couldn't even begin to talk about the history of places like India, Africa, or central and south america.

1350-1650
meant to title this one:
"reformation and renaissance, or the early modern period"

...

Continuation from this post. At the moment, I'm focusing on textbooks and narrative histories. I'll be including things like biographies, primary sources, and essays / critical analyses later. Here's what I got listed

>Ancient Greece
Ancient Greece: A Political, Social, and Cultural History (Sarah B. Pomeroy)

>Ancient Rome
The Romans: From Village to Empire (Mary T. Boatwright)

>The Islamic Middle East
A Concise History of the Middle East (Arthur Goldschmidt)
Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World Through Islamic Eyes (Tamim Ansary)

>The First World War
A People’s Tragedy (Orlando Figes)
The Guns of August (Barbara W. Tuchman)

>The Second World War
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (William L. Shirer)
The Second World War (John Keegan)

>Modern Middle East
The Modern Middle East (James L. Galvin)

>China
China: A New History (John King Fairbank)

>Japan
A History of Japan (Mason, R. H. P.)

>tfw half the people on this god damned board think white people are superior because they live in the cold so you can't tell if this is a meme or not

Ok, so I made a quick little list to help you on republican rome. I'll make a list on imperial and late antique rome. You don't have to use all the books listed but maybe read some reviews and see which are best suited to the purpose of a general list.

>The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (William L. Shirer)
don't use shirer. use richard evans or kershaw. If we want to put shirer on a list it should be in a list dedicated to "historical classics" (i.e. books that are written with style and verve, their stimulating ideas and questions (on which all following historical scholarship has had to address). For example, I listed Robert Syme in this list, but I'd argue he fits in the historical classic category because his work was a bombshell in roman studies and a lot of his ideas have been disputed. others would be gibbons, ranke, carlyle, braudel, hans baron, bloch, huizinga, elias, wallerstein or historians out of the mainstream (or popularizers) like toynbee, spengler, h.g. wells or durant.

Here's some bibliographies
wwi eastern front
pastebin.com/pXpVr0cx
origins of wwi
pastebin.com/mVnJ5VBi
western front
pastebin.com/htFqdQea
Abbasid Caliphate
pastebin.com/VbrHP2NG
polis
pastebin.com/9Pg29qJj
greek federal states
pastebin.com/LyfZSp0B
greek history: hellenistic
pastebin.com/JQKwB1GT
greek history: archaic to classical age
pastebin.com/NuUZS3DH
greek military
pastebin.com/QkgHCewz

added a bit more autism to the chart

>Lord Caesar, we're Legio X Procuratio Nuntiorum Centralis

i'd put a seascape with a trireme

Anything on the Mongols that isn't by Jack Weatherford

the mongols, david morgan

Wait, are Jack Weatherford's books considered memes here? I thought they were great.

his book on ghengis khan is ok for an introduction, so i've read, but he has a tendency to exaggerate and makes a lot of conjecture not supported by the evidence.

Its outdated
You don't teach evolution by using text written by Darwin, its similar with Gibbon. Good Scholarship for the time but contains a lot of error and biases.

So we all agree that the following are out of date and should not be considered for the charts or kept under a "classic history" category (books that were important to the study of their respective history at one time but have become outdated in recent years):

The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (Shirer)
The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire (Gibbons)
The Civilization of the Renaissance in Italy (Buckhardt)

Any other books we should NOT have in the charts similar to this?

Things like Herodotus, Thucydides, and Parallel Lives I would consider more like primary sources, and should be kept on the charts.

The Mongols by David Morgan
Genghis Khan and Mongol Rule by George Lane

Both are read together, with The Mongols first. George Lane was a student of David Morgan and wrote his book almost as a response in some ways to David Morgan's.

Not really on the mongols, but I also recommend The Mughal Throne by Abraham Eraly

Jack Weatherford's Genghis Khan should be added on the DO NOT INCLUDE list

They are good for an introduction.

Thanks

Best books on the cultural revolution in china?

Here you go

Good goy!

well in a sense, the classical historians could, indeed, be put on the "classic" history list because of how important they are to the development of western historiography. However, there a lot of ancient works, so we might want to make a separate list dedicated to "historians of the classical age" or "ancient historians." On the other hand, we can make a list dedicated to all classics, divided between the ancient historians and historical works that we decide are of interest or historical importance.
as for the outdated historians, check the bottom of my post
i can think of a lot more but i need time

>reading books written by Anglo historians

>historical works
I mean ancient literary works, mostly philosophy. but then again Veeky Forums already covers this pretty well. (unless, that is, we want to find secondary historical works dedicated to discussing the historical context in which the classical philosophers and playwrights made their works

Currently leading pic related (Major Problems in Imperial Russian History) for a class in uni. It seems pretty good, basically a collection of papers, book excerpts, and historical documents about the period.

Oh neat, I've been looking for a good imperial russia book. is this the only one you've read?

Also, post more books you people are reading or have read for your universities. Those tend to be the best books.

...

bump

Adding to >Ancient Greece
The Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Greece
Early Greek Philosophy (Penguin)
The Histories (Herodotus)
The History of the Peloponnesian War (Thucydides)
The Anabasis (Xenophon)
The Campaigns of Alexander (Arrian)

>Ancient Rome
The Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Rome
Commentary on the Gallic Wars (Julius Caesar)
The Annals (Tacitus)

>Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome
Parallel Lives (Plutarch)

>Medieval Europe
Chronicle of the Abbey of Bury St. Edmunds (Jocelin de Brakelond)
Two Lives of Charlemagne (Einhard)

>France in the Early Modern Age
Napoleon: A Life (Andrew Roberts)

>World War 2 / Holocaust
Survival In Auschwitz (Primo Levi)

>General subjects
Art History: Gardner's Art Through the Ages
Mythology: World Mythology: An Anthology of Great Myths and Epics (Donna Rosenberg)
Religion: Philosophy of Religion: Selected Readings (Michael Peterson)

okay that's about all the books I could recommend for the lists

Hardcore History sucks. I've listened to a few eps before I could pinpoint what it was that was annoying me. First, it's too long. He spends too much time rambling on asides, and apologizing to his (presumably?) more conservative or retard-tier American listeners about how the thing they're about to hear might shock them and blah blah blah. He should just to short formats.

Second, he does not come off very intelligent or comprehensive about the topics. Obviously he researches them, but I've listened to some and listened to his idiotic (often wrong) conjectures about points which he could just as well actually fucking research. He does not come off as knowledgeable about the societies he's talking about, making assumptions based on his American experience. It's a total facepalm. Which brings us to...

Third, he's a pleb armchair historian, nothing more. He can be 'entertaining' (I disagree, but I get how some might like this), and if you're totally ignorant on a topic like most of his listeners, I guess he's still better than NOT knowing anything at all.

General recommendations:

>Nazi Germany / Hitler:
Hitler Hubris and Nemesis by Ian Kershaw
The Nazi Dictatorship by Ian Kershaw
The Third Reich Trilogy by Richard Evans
>Blitzed by Norman Ohler

>Holocaust
The Holocaust by Laurence Rees
The Origins of The Final Solution by Christopher Browning
KL by Nikolaus Wachsmann
East West Street by Philip Sandes

>World War 1
To Hell and Back by Ian Kershaw
Guns of August by Barbara W. Tuchman
The Fall of the Ottomans by Eugene Rogan
>A Line in the Sand by James Barr

>Russia
A people's Tragedy by Orlando Figes
Court of the Red Tsar by Simon Sebag Montefiore
The Romanovs by Simon Sebag Montefiore

>Misc:
Germany:Memories of a Nation: Neil MacGregor
Silk Roads by Peter Frankopan
What is History? By EH Carr
In Defence of History by Richard Evans
The Pursuit of Power by Richard Evans

Add BBC History Extra Podcast somewhere, and Dan Snows History hit, both are pretty decent.

When I was doing my DPhil we all used to have a running joke about Carlin and his pseudo form of history

The Romanovs by Simon Sebag Montefiore is probably what you're looking for. Also you can see the reading lists publicly online for Cambridge and Oxford universities - their lists are usually fantastic.

>Also you can see the reading lists publicly online for Cambridge and Oxford universities

Tried searching for those but can't seem to find them. Link?

How do you bois think about Peter Brown?

good book, if there's ever a list on late antiquity this should be on it

I think he meant something like this:
pastebin.com/vtkR25Cz

I don't know anything about Stoicism, but the book I see mentioned most when discussing it is Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.

Anyone have a Plato reading list or chart that gives a good order?

Uh from my Plato teacher, we did
Euthyphro -> Apology -> Symposium -> Phaedo -> Meno -> Republic

Thanks. Do you have a syllabus or anything you could share?

what are some interesting books on warfare besides

>the art of war

>on war

>the book of five rings

Im looking for anything up to the introduction of gunpowder

I can put some of the lectures I have on it up on a Dropbox, but I'm currently away from my computer. I'll report back in a few hours

Excellent. Thanks. The reading schedule/list in PDF format would be helpful

Anybody have one for Jews/ Israel?
>inb4 Elders of the Protocol of Zion, Mein Kampf, On the Jews and Their Lies, etc.

hey friendo,

The three surviving classic Stoic texts are Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, the Enchiridion by Epictetus, and Letters from Seneca.

If you're looking for a modern text to get you into the philosophy, A Guide to the Good Life by William Irving or The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday are good primers.

Rome and Jerusalem: A Clash of Ancient Cilvilizations

Basically gives a nice summation of the entire Roman-Jew History. It actually opened my eyes a bit about the causes of antisemitism in the Empire and in Christianity.

I don't know how to phrase it well, but...is the book "red pilled" or is it "muh poor Jews" the whole text? Some of that is understandable, but I don't want to hear hundreds of pages of pandering.

It's written by a expert in Classical and Judaic studies. It really is fair in its analysis of the causes and conflicts between the two states, and only ever really leans towards one bias by arguing the Romans were hyper aggressive at committing war, and the cause of antisemitism in Pre-Christian Rome was more the explicit celebration of The conquest of Jerusalem by the Flavians and Trajan for political justification. The Bar Kokhba revolt basically sealed the deal.
It really doesn't ever go into "muh Jews", it does emphasize how big of a deal losing the Temple was.

Refer to the bottom of the list, retard.

dropbox.com/sh/2wwl6fq84986j24/AACQNEb0KuldewK-E-1PshM_a?dl=0

I've only found two of the powerpoints for it unfortunately, but here's the Euthyprho and Apology. We also used this book: amazon.com/Plato-Reader-Essential-Dialogues-Classics/dp/1603848118/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488403484&sr=8-1&keywords=A Plato Reader: Eight Essential Dialogues

Excellent. Thanks user. Downloaded and will peruse when I get around to reading them.

Bump

>idiotic (often wrong) conjectures about points which he could just as well actually fucking research
you just described lindy

bump with new carthage list

The Great Courses are based.
Rufus J. Fears especially was based, I love listening to him

bump, will make another for tomorrow

How many of you guy's actually buy physical copies of books vs getting free electronic copies?

Which do you find easier to read, process and navigate through? I myself highly prefer physical copies, Hardcover almost always if it's available. I just find it so difficult to read and focus with ebooks.

I'm a paper copy guy, but I definitely yield to convenience's sake with picking up free .epubs for my Kindle. I travel a lot for work, so it makes more sense to load up on ebooks.

Nothing beats relaxing with a paper book though.

I got a kindle too, and while I really like it, it only has 4GB of storage. I fell for the Voyage meme, and I could have sworn that it had an external microSD card slot, but apparently it doesn't.

Oh well.

Also I agree about the paper stuff. It just feels so much to peer over the text in your hands as a physical entity, and it makes me feel much more "scholarly", as "memey" as that sounds.

Depends. Most academic papers I will just read online. Things like Herodotus or The Prince, while completely free online, I would still just get a physical copy of. For one, it's fun to collect. Secondly, I can read on the go. I pretty much exclusively travel by public transportation so I read a lot on the go everyday.

The only time I've ever really sided in this physical vs digital debate that permeates in pretty much every medium is I almost never take notes on physical mediums (notebooks) nowadays and store my notes from my readings on word documents. It's so much more easier to manage my notes on digital medium.

History of humans from the very first homo to homo sapiens sapiens

top

kek

those are all mainstream books though, won't tell the real story. u got to go deeper to find the esoteric truth

>It's so much more easier to manage my notes on digital medium.
What system do you employ to manage your notes? I obsessively archive and sort everything I consume or produce, but it's a mess of folders, to be honest. I wish explorers would be tag-based. ;_;

I use google docs. Over 200 pages of note and its very easy to manage them or search for what I want.

anyone have recommended reading on the French Revolution?

For any of you fagolas who want Late Antiquity
warosu.org/lit/thread/S6849002

Can someone recommend books on the Shia?

Especially on the based Alevi?

How good is The Histories by Herodotus?

Somehow I never got around to reading it.

It's actually surprisingly enjoyable. I recommend getting the Landmark Edition, because it comes with loads of annotations, maps and essays explaining Herodotus' interpretations. It's also pretty cheap for such a massive tome

Its pretty long and full of outdated content. There are some really good parts though. I much prefer Thucydides and Xenophon. I recommend reading certain parts (look online for a list of recommended sections), not the whole thing.

Extremist Shiites: The Ghulat Sects - Matti Moosa

new chart

>Late Antiquity/Early Middle Ages
Inheritance of Rome by Chris Wickham, alternately his Framing the Early Middle Ages if you want something more scholarly on the same subject.

>Early Modern
The Pursuit of Glory by Tim Blanning; general overview on Europe from 1648-1815
Iron Kingdom by Christopher Clark; authoritative overview of Prussian history and culture.

>Early United States
The Glorius Cause by Robert Middlekauff (American Revolution)
Empire of Liberty by Gordon S. Wood (Constitution through War of 1812)
Battle Cry of Freedom by James McPherson (Civil War)

>China
Imperial China: 900-1800 by F.W. Mote
Generals of the South by Rafe de Crespigny; history of Wu during the Three Kingdoms period.

>Japan
The Making of Modern Japan by Marius Jansen; covers the Edo period through the modern day.
Embracing Defeat by John Dower; occupation era Japan.

The map at the beginning of Destiny Disrupted triggers the fuck out of me, especially that it has Ethiopia listed as a country with a Muslim population of over 50%