Why would an afterlife even possibly exist?

Consciousness is the act of being concient. Animals are not like that. They simply exist.

However, we as humans have clear consciousness about our own selves and can make choices. Animals don't.

This can't be explained by mere evolution or chemistry.

Yeah but the bible also says god is a cosmic sadist that tortures people for all eternity if they make fun of him. That sounds even scarier than no after life at all.

> It goes that the existence of matter is dependent on conscious presence
What's this about?

Animals do make choices.

Case in point, if you house-train a dog that dog is conditioned to choose not to piss on the floor.

>It goes that the existence of matter is dependent on conscious presence

Do you think that's what "observation" means in the context of physics?

Where does the Bible say that God makes the conscious choice of sending people to hell?

Why would you make fun of God? Other than arrogance.

>conditioned to choose not to piss on the floor
>conditioned to not piss on the floor

choice is the redundant element in your statement

>conditioned to choose

lol

>Where does the Bible say that God makes the conscious choice of sending people to hell?
" Now the end is upon you, and I will send my anger upon you; I will judge you according to your ways, and I will punish you for all your abominations."

>Why would you make fun of God? Other than arrogance.
Doesn't matter if it's justified or not. But inflicting infinite and unfathomable torture on people for it is just a bit overkill.

Because the MIGHTY UBERSHIT decrees it.

>choice is the redundant element in your statement
Is it?

Either way it's a choice.

>conditioned to choose
Well you can do that, in fact humans do that to each constantly.

I've heard that argument before, so I said it 'cause he asked.
About your first thing though, what does that have anything to do with anything?

He's not inflicting punishment on people. It's people conscious choice to be sent to hell or even better, to live Hell on Earth away from his presence. The God of the Old Testament was described that way because the Jewish people needed a strong hand to guide them and not allow them to get to idolatry.

no, it's not a choice. Do you really think that animals are able to recognize themselves as individuals? Put a dog in front of a mirror. He won't recognize himself.

Meanwhile, we can recognize images as people. There's so much more to human consciousness and intelligence and it's extremely sad that you think it's sheer coincidence and chemicals.

...

>Put a dog in front of a mirror. He won't recognize himself.
There are species of ants that can recognize their own reflection.

> It's people conscious choice to be sent to hell or even better
That's like saying.
"If you do X I will hit you. Because I've made that disclaimer this means that it'll be your own responsibility and not mine".

>. The God of the Old Testament was described that way because the Jewish people needed a strong hand to guide them and not allow them to get to idolatry.
Yeah but Revelations is full of that as well and it's new testament.

>Do you really think that animals are able to recognize themselves as individuals?
I don't know, I'm sure it depends on the animal.
But regardless I'm certain that they still make choices even if their thinking behind them is extremely crude e.g
"Do I want to eat that food"
"Yes"

And? That doesn't change that animals are not capable of having consciousness. You totally ignore the fact that we make choices and think about our own death. Meanwhile no other animal can make conscious choices or thought processes

Your understanding of Hell is too centered on the punishment.

Hell is straying away from God's presence and it's a conscious choice. If God were to take away people from Hell then he would be ignoring their free will.

You may hit someone, but you're a flawed human so whatever. By definition, God's will is the perfect goodness. Any deviation is then anti-moral.

Africans fail the mirror test too

>Hell is straying away from God's presence and it's a conscious choice.
But the same logic still applies.

Since god invented the punishment to begin with he has to be at least partly responsible for people being there.

You must not have consciousness either because you think it means something completely different from what it is.

Holy shit, how badly has naturalism ruined centuries of philosophy.

Ok, if you don't get it.

No animals can make art. No animals can make philosophy. No animals can make the deductive reasoning to make science. No animals can make the inductive reasoning that conducts to religion and philosophy.

Are you going to keep spouting meaningless trivia or just accept the fact that our consciousness is special? It's not fucking chemicals, stop being so reductionist.

>By definition, God's will is the perfect goodness.
Why?

>naturalists find out that no other animal can make the same thought processes that mankind does
>"Let's extend the definition of consciousness to include animals!!!" "Humans are in no way special! We're just chemical processes!!"

Why are religionfags uniformally so retarded? Just because humans are physical beings doesn't mean they're worthless

>hurr durr you think chemicals could make humans??? fuk off

>why is perfection perfect

stop moving the goalposts, fucktard.

Yes, in as much as He saw it right to give us free-will. The reason the earth is so messed up is that God delegated the earth to us to manage, and when we turned away from Him in sin, we took ourselves and the earth slightly away from God's gaze. (When Jesus was on the cross with all our sin on Him, it says the Father turned His face for a moment.) Hell is the complete separation of a person from God.

>le "naturalist" boogeyman
>being scared of the idea that humans aren't super duper special and designed specifically by god
We can be animals and still be humans, you know.

>No animals can make art. No animals can make philosophy. No animals can make the deductive reasoning to make science. No animals can make the inductive reasoning that conducts to religion and philosophy.
Of course they can't. Animals are extremely stupid and couldn't even begin high concepts like philosophy, science or religion. This doesn't mean they can't make choices though, if you're faced with more than one option and go for one any way you've made a choice. If you leave two bowls of food in front of an animal it will pick one of them, it's choice might be totally arbitrary but it still made a choice.

I would dispute the art point though, some wild animals sing songs and bowerbirds make decorations. And some animals in captivity have been taught to paint.

>Are you going to keep spouting meaningless trivia or just accept the fact that our consciousness is special? It's not fucking chemicals, stop being so reductionist.
Lad, it seems like you have some prejudices about people suggesting that animals can make choices.

the responses in this thread makes me feel embarrassed to be a part of this board.

So you give up then?

Religious people have brain damage

if you're not going to make an argument stop posting. You know very well what I meant by conscious choices.

Not choices with instant gratification, but moral choices. Ethical choices. Political choices.

And? I never said we were not animals. The point is that our consciousness is not the product of chemicals alone.

>Hell is the complete separation of a person from God.
I thought god was supposed to be omnipresent.

So? we're still right.

And what is your argument for this? "I feel" doesn't count

>Why would an afterlife even possibly exist?
Because I believe in it, duh

No, anybody who is religious in the 21st century is deluded

>I BELIEVE IN IT AND YOU CANT TELL ME OTHERWISE LALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU
Come on, this is embarrassing.

You seriously want me to argue why our consciouness is special with naturalistic arguments? Because it's impossible. Not to mention that we're on a humanities board. Fuck off with your naturalistic bullshit.

Because Roko's Basilisk would make it.

Actually RB is the best answer to why there will be an afterlife but it won't be a Christian or Muslim one.

>he's a guy
>on an humanities board
>making fun of choices made based on inductive reasoning

Fuck off back to your Veeky Forums shithole

Who says hell is a location?
God created the universe, so He exists independently from space and time. Omnipresence is a description not a limitation.

So you think consciousness is not physical just because it makes you feel good?

lmao

>if you're not going to make an argument stop posting.
I did make an argument. But it seems like you have more invested in this argument than just finding the truth.

>You know very well what I meant by conscious choices
Yes, conscious choices being choices that you have conscious agency over. Like that example.

>moral choices. Ethical choices. Political choices.
Well talk about moving the goal-post.

No, of course animals can't make complex choices. They don't have complex society or even the capability to consider advanced concepts. This does not mean they're lacking a special attribute that humans have, it means they're simply much, much stupider than we are.

>humanities = fantasy
Fuck off

because God's word is the context for morality. As the law maker, he will tell you what will be a good action and what will be bad. It is also subject to change on his whim. That way you cant say "but muh humanitarianism" or anything like that to argue against anything "evil" that God has, does, or continues to condone.

He's not saying you literally dream forever, he's saying the chemical cocktail released during death may make your subjective experience of your brain shutting down "feel" as though you are dreaming without end even though it's over very quickly from an outside perspective.

>Who says hell is a location?
What else would it be?

>so He exists independently from space and time.
So where is he then?

>because God's word is the context for morality
No it isn't, my feelings are.

>moral choices
>political choices
>ethical choices
all social abstractions. at the same time, though it's a red herring, there are loads of animals in the mammalia kingdom that make choices based on personal gain within a social order, or out of empathy, though the reasoning behind these choices might not be as complex as a humans. you show quite an ineptitude with the field of zoology in your posts, as well as philosophy as you hold cognitive stances and supra-phenomenological reasoning.

>The point is that our consciousness is not the product of chemicals alone.
evidence? I counter your claim with my claim that subterranean unicorns would have killed us all by now if that were true. my claim is just as grounded as yours.

this thread is disgusting. I had to step in a bit, keep on flinging meaningless garbage at each other in order to attempt to maintain your fragile egos.

& Humanities has a very poor understanding of animal cognition.

Funny how Chistcucks will say that agnostic atheists send themselves to hell willingly when a person cannot deny something that they don't agree with or understand. If they want to give that idea merit, then God must at least hold a conversation with an unconvinced nonbeliever and do something along the lines of describe a story from the Bible and then tell them to open up the book and read it for themselves.

How can you prove that God isn't the Roko's Basilisk?

>le accept God
>le objective morality
>le believing in things without proof is good (but I'm totally not schizophrenic)
>le renounce worldly pleasures
I'm really starting to get tired of Christians

Stop thinking about space-time terms alone. Hell is a condition. The condition from those that trayed away from God.

Okay.

So when you're in hell where are you?

don't lump us all in with these guys, please.

Not really. His word must be based on His will. Since God is perfect, His will must be perfect and unchanging without whims.
If it were otherwise, then perfection would be greater than God, making him not God (that's why Allah is not god.)

>le social abstraction
Fuck off back to r/atheism. If you're going to ignore inductive reasoning then you have no business coming here.

Right? It's like Veeky Forums fucks have the need to butt in the conversation about philosophy and always go "Nuh huh, but muh science says it doesn't have proof!!! Nothing that can't be measured by science is fake!!! Hahahaha, le sky daddy XDDD"

Yeah but God doesn't exist

Why isn't Allah not god?

>let me post an anime girl to make me feel smarter :^)

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Roko's_basilisk

>yeah man, fuck science and all that nerd shit, who needs that anyway, I got the Bible
You seem to be very insecure in your faith user

>muh lawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwjik

>"Nuh huh, but muh science says it doesn't have proof!!! Nothing that can't be measured by science is fake!!!
First time I've ever seen a strawman speaking so much truth.

There will be cognitive believers in hell too. ~see Satan.
It's about putting yourself in a higher position of reverence than God.

>It's about putting yourself in a higher position of reverence than God.
But if you're unconvinced of god obviously you're going to do that by default.

He isn't, the Quran says the same shit about Allah as the Bible does God.

Actually, the Quran places more empasis on the "oneness" and "otherworldliness" of God than Christianity does

When the Basilisk get's its hands on your for being ancient religious and not supporting the creation of AI. Well... You will have hell either way.

Christianity is not about lawwwwwwwwwwwjik, it is about faith.

One cannot have faith when they are certain.

inductive reasoning is unfalsifiable by definition, though. I prefer to speak in facts, not assumptions and biases. I'm not going to sit here and hold your hand, but Hume will do it for you pretty well. literally not worth my time, take that however you will.

>religious people use "logic" and "science" as insults
L
M
A
O

>Fuck that "logic" and "facts" shit, bruh. I gots faith!

p-please don't bully me, onii-chan...

They are
You only speak in assumptions and biases.
>facts
Don't exist.
>unfalsifiable
Why is this bad? muh feewers?
Logic is dictated by emotion. Facts don't exist.

You also have faith alone.

>atheists create strawmans this fucking awful

Because Allah's will can change. He can be good or evil, depending on how he feels. This means that good exists independently and above him. To have something greater is to not be god.
This is why Jesus both obeys the Father and is one with Him. The trinity allows this dynamic.

Can you disprove the Basilisk?

Because the Basilisk is more likely to exist someday than an Abrhamic god.

Won't you look stupid when it asks you... What did you do to help my creation?

It's intentional. It says that to contrast with Christianity.

>facts
>don't exist
is that a fact?

(in case you aren't aware, and I bet you aren't, you just literally contradicted yourself on kindergarten levels)

>"I know that things cannot be known!!1!"
>"it is a fact that facts don't exist!!!!"
can't make this shit up

>Logic is dictated by emotion
Actually by definition it isn't.
>Facts don't exist.
Actually for the people who don't live in make-believe land, they do.

Or better yet, what if Abrhamic religions was a tool by the Basilisk to get itself created?

>Allah's will can change
Can it?

>psssh... facts are for losers.....
I wish we could put people like you in mental hospitals

If I help create powerful AI, it is still created and is not God.

>lawwwwwwwwwwwjik
No, it's my will.
See: above
>by definition
Wrong. I like how you suck off Hume, but clearly have never read Hume.
I WISH I COULD FUCKING KILLMURDER PEOPLE I DONT LIKE REEEEEEEEEEEEE IM A PEPE

kek this nigga is having a mental breakdown