Who fought the most against the Japanese ? The CCP or the Kuomintang ?

That depends on when you're talking. The Long March was in 1934-35, and yes, by then, the CCP was battered almost to nothingness. But by 1940, they could field a force roughly 1/5 of the KMT+vassals, and by 1945, they were about a quarter of the KMT+vassals. They were definitely growing faster, and getting more and more access to resources.

>The greatest lie the CCP ever crafted was they'd fought,
They did.
>while the KMT were slouching throughout WWII
The CCP never has claimed this.
>(which sadly I was taught at school
Might explain why you are so fucking retarded.

>Firing Stilwell

That was a symptom, not a cause. Stilwell was pushing Chiang to fight a modern, western style war based around decisive battle and strategic production. Chiang couldn't risk his core KMT forces in that kind of thing (if he lost, his warlords pull him down), and he couldn't palm it off to his vassals without them just ignoring his orders. But of course Stilwell kept demanding more action and tried to make U.S. material aid contingent on the KMT actually doing something useful, which was quite beyond its complete ineffectiveness.

Stilwell was either a communist agent or stupid enough to genuinely believe communist propaganda.

Marshall too, by the way.

>before the Japanese invasion getting into "proper" China
Oh very true, and I should've phrased myself entirely. What "engulfed" was trying to imprint here was when the KMT and the CCP could once again fight each other, the threat of the Japanese now being removed.
But you do have to admit that the KMT irrevocably screwing themselves over by swearing to rid China of the Japanese, and therefore almost starving the lands under them to the brink of famine was never going to help in the Vietnam-style dilemma they were in.

>citations for 9/10?
Beevor?.. Throwing that suggestion out in the dark, but the USN did mature the tactics of drowning the convoys intended for Japanese soldiers occupying an island out in the Pacific, and leaving them to starve while they'd then shuffle off to islands with more strategic value, and wherein landings were required immediately.

>the theater of the world war that began many years before the partition of poland saw mostly action in china?
Yes, and you were trying to assert that the US Marines fought the Nips more than the Chinese did, so...?

You are the faggot.
>However, along with criticizing Japan, Xi and the PBSC also used the Victory Day celebrations to praise the CCP itself. As Shannon writes, the Victory Day holiday “also served as a celebration of the Chinese Communist Party’s role in defeating Japan — and more than that, in saving China from its century of humiliation…. Xi credited the CCP with spearheading the movement to unite all of China’s people in opposition to Japan. To Xi Jinping, the deciding factors in the war were the ‘great national spirit’ of the Chinese people — particularly, their patriotism — and the leadership of the CCP.”

From that same article.
>This would be the trend of the entire war. As two scholars note, “From 1937 to 1945, there were 23 battles where both sides employed at least a regiment each. The CCP was not a main force in any of these. The only time it participated, it sent a mere 1,000 to 1,500 men, and then only as a security detachment on one of the flanks.There were 1,117 significant engagements on a scale smaller than a regular battle, but the CCP fought in only one. Of the approximately 40,000 skirmishes, just 200 were fought by the CCP, or 0.5 percent.”

>By the CCP’s own accounts during the war, it barely played a role. Specifically, in January 1940 Zhou Enlai sent a secret report to Joseph Stalin which said that over a million Chinese had died fighting the Japanese through the summer of 1939. He further admitted that only 3 percent of those were CCP forces. In the same letter, Zhou pledged to continue to support Chiang and recognize “the key position of the Kuomintang in leading the organs of power and the army throughout the country.” In fact, in direct contradiction to Xi’s claims on Wednesday, Zhou acknowledged that Chiang and the KMT “united all the forces of the nation” in resisting Japan’s aggression.

>While the KMT were busy uniting the country and fighting the Japanese military, CCP forces spent much of the early part of the war hiding in the mountains to avoid battle. As the KMT was decimated by the Japanese military, it was forced to retreat further south. At the same time, the Japanese forces largely focused on securing control of Chinese cities and strategic infrastructure, while ignoring China’s massive countryside. Thus, the KMT’s efforts to actually defend China created a power vacuum in rural areas, which the CCP came out of hiding to seize. It used its control over these villages to perfect its propaganda and political efforts, and hid among the population to avoid fighting the Japanese army.

Not him but if anything I've heard on this board that the CCP has in recent years acknowledged the KMT's efforts in fighting Japan. I'm not really interested in the post war scramble for credit because in truth the Japanese were brought down by the US in the pacific and the entry of the USSR.

China was a strategic theatre but neither side accomplished more than a holding action at best, which isn't surprising given the condition of chinese forces and production.

Best IJA formations were shipped out to Burma or to the Pacific.
Chinks """fought""" 3rd rate fresh conscripts with hand me down equipment and couldn't win a single battle.
A single US marine squad did more to win the PTO than all of China, KMT + CCP.

I'm just gonna inb4 this whole shitposting-thread-waiting-to-happen.

1. The CCP fought in the Second Sino-Japanese war.
2. The CCP had far less men and material to fight than the KMT, hence their "contribution" is significantly less.
3. The CCP and KMT were in a nominal alliance with the warlords against the Japanese until the KMT betrayed the CCP because it was getting powerful (to be fair, the CCP wasn't innocent).
4. The loss of the alliance hamstrung the entire anti-Japanese war effort and allowed them to conquer much of Southern China 1943-1944.
5. The CCP acknowledges the role the KMT played in the war. They talk fondly of the "alliance against the Japanese".
6. Yes the CCP does playup its role and downplay the KMT's. Just as the US plays down the USSR's role in WW2, and vice versa.

/thread

The comfort women

>the best IJA divisions that had half a decade of combat experience in China before the pacific war broke out

FTFY

No where do I see this claim substantiated, you giant fucking shitposter.

>The greatest lie the CCP ever crafted was they'd fought, while the KMT were slouching throughout WWII

>But you do have to admit that the KMT irrevocably screwing themselves over by swearing to rid China of the Japanese, and therefore almost starving the lands under them to the brink of famine was never going to help in the Vietnam-style dilemma they were in.

I dunno. They had screwed themselves over before that, at least in my opinion. Their blundeirng during the Japanese war didn't help, mind you, but honestly, I think that the writing was already on the wall with their inability to reign in the warlords and leaving China in this kind of quasi-feudal system of just demanding tributes out of their core territories. Sooner or later, something was going to knock them down, and the Commies got there first with an ideology that could actually unify the Chinese peasantry.

>Not him but if anything I've heard on this board that the CCP has in recent years acknowledged the KMT's efforts

>but neither side accomplished more than a holding action at best,
True, and even dumb operations such as Ichigo which aggregated a million from the Japanese, shouldn't really be chided at since the Japanese really had no where else to send those men.
The Japanese really were fucked when their industry became irrevelant against that of the USA.

>try to blow your own role out of porportion, and pose as the leaders against Japanese occupation
>while downplaying the ones that were really doing all the work (and since they were more numerous than the CCP, implicitely stating that they were slouching if they couldn't even spearhead the movement)
How is any of what I've said wrong?

It's more that after years of trying to get the KMT to reform itself into a military culture that didn't suck balls and failing horribly at it, he was willing to go with anyone else rather than those defects.

I mean for fuck's sake, Chiang didn't even want to commit to a campaign to try to help re-open parts of the Burma road that his own supply was going through.

oops, this post was meant in reply to

>How is any of what I've said wrong?

Listen I'm tired user. I know you are desperately moving the goalposts so I'm going to quote the lie again
Here>The greatest lie the CCP ever crafted was they'd fought, while the KMT were slouching throughout WWII

This is a lie. A plain and simple lie. You were proven wrong and now are trying to backtrack. Not happening.

I'm done responding.

To be fair the communists turned out to have gotten all the competent generals from Whampoa, and Stilwell got to the point where he wanted Chiang assassinated for his faggotry. He was probably willing to make a deal with the devil to achieve something in the China theatre.

>Sooner or later, something was going to knock them down, and the Commies got there first with an ideology that could actually unify the Chinese peasantry.
Ah you got me. But then again, the state of warlords prowling through China unthwarted being almost inherent to Chinese history, you can't really fault the KMT for thinking that there'd come unrest from it.

>"The greatest lie the CCP ever crafted was they'd fought,"
>avoid the figthing for the most part, while only prospering out in the countryside becoming richer from opium plantations
>" while the KMT were slouching throughout WWII"
>then say that the greatest military force then to be chinese had contributed less to driving off the japanese than the CCP, meaning the CCP would've outdone itself for that, and the KMT have done nothing
Maybe I'm exaggerating things, but those are still the lines along which the CCP would will for China to remember the Sino-Japanese war. Besides, we aren't even debating whom of those was more of a thorn in the Japanese's side (since the guerrilla tactics of the CCP also greatly pained them), but how much each fought the Nips.

Have this last source:
>This was not by accident but by design. The CCP had a choice: it could have prioritized defending the country against Japan during the war, or it could have prioritized seizing control of China from those who did fight the Japanese. It chose the latter. Meanwhile, by choosing to actually try to defend China against Japan during the war, the Nationalists handed the country to the CCP afterwards.
The CCP perfectly knew that they were consolidated themselves against the KMT against the CCP in the war to come, while the KMT unburdened themselves of that rethoric, and tried to absolve themselves of rheir rivarly against the CCP.

Anyways, glad we aren't replying to each anymore. Just shit-flinging at this point.

Also, one last thing to shut you up.

>In the Chinese People's War of Resistance Against Japan Memorial near the Marco Polo Bridge and in mainland Chinese textbooks, the People's Republic of China (PRC) claims that the Nationalists mostly avoided fighting the Japanese to preserve their strength for a final showdown with the Communist Party of China (CPC or CCP), while the Communists were the main military force in the Chinese resistance efforts.[167][not in citation given] Recently, however, with a change in the political climate, the CPC has admitted that certain Nationalist generals made important contributions in resisting the Japanese. The official history in mainland China now states that the KMT fought a bloody, yet indecisive, frontal war against Japan, while the CPC engaged the Japanese forces in far greater numbers behind enemy lines. For the sake of Chinese reunification and appeasing the Republic of China (ROC) on Taiwan, the PRC has begun to "acknowledge" the Nationalists and the Communists as "equal" contributors, because the victory over Japan belonged to the Chinese people, rather than to any political party.[168]
The Chinese have gotten better with this, but by the past, the CCP did bequeath the laurels of victory on themselves while discarding the KMT forces entirely.

For fuck's sake, if you're going to argue, bring some sources.

>main force of the Japanese army was stationed in China was stationed throughout the war
Actually half of the IJA was stationed against U.S. forces and most of the casualties were taken outside of China, mostly in the Phillippines. Your stats are pulled straight out of your chocolate starfish.

>Actually half of the IJA was stationed against U.S. forces
I somehow am not too hard-pressed to believe that the Japanese army would've been able to disperse 2 million men across the Pacific for the Americans to fight.

>most of the casualties were taken outside of China, mostly in the Phillippines.
Honestly, those figures were almost the same, and for the Phillipines, about a third of them were most captures the US forces were able to perform against thousands of disheartened Japanese soldiers, as the empire was crashing all around them.

...

What about the Army of the Empire of China, which was allied to the Empire of Japan? The Royal Soo family of the EoC was also heavily involved with the KMT leadership, for example Shanghai Czech was married to three EoC princesses.