How do godcucks defend this?

In the eyes of the writer who lived 2800 years ago the lords action to defeat the Ammonites was done in order to assist his people in a war but instead lead to an illegal human sacrifice.
This is probably a folk tale supposed to show that one is not supposed to take vows in such an open handed haphazard manner.

There is also a possible element of slander by the Judean faction against the Israelite faction to show the barbarism of the later.
-Yeh he won the war and stuff but he was a bad guy anyway, only David and his kids are cool, all those kingdom of Israel types are assholes).

In any case in both Christian and Jewish traditions it's seen as a sin. In the Jewish tradition with which i'm more familiar it is said that the vow to commit human sacrifice was illegal in the first place and was not binding. Iftah went on with the sacrifice out of pride.

>with which i'm more familiar
How surprising.

The guy made a vow, he kept his vow.

What exactly is your point OP?

There;s not even the slightest hint in the passage the Lord was unhappy with Jephtah or his yummy burnt child sacrifice or his ow, quite the opposite. He helps Jephtah to a fine genocide.

Surprising to find a Jew in a thread about Judean desert sagas of early iron age? Why? Would you be surprised to find some Norwegian guy in a thread about vikings?
But the war was before the sacrifice, you didn't read carefully.

>But the war was before the sacrifice, you didn't read carefully.

No I obviously noticed that, silly.

>2800 years ago
More than that.

The times of the judges was before 1000 BC.

Humanities need their own board.

It was sarcasm. I'm not surprised because you're the only coherent poster ITT who has put some effort into making his post. Jews have lots of money, they go to private schools and the best unis and travel the world, therefore they are more intelligent and able to create posts and other things that make sense than the usual goyim.

Also, you Jews seem to follow the same pattern of speech and behavior when you post. Maybe I'm just reading alot of your posts? It's like you're of one mind and one soul and I am debating with various facets of that one being.

This is a historical thread, dumb fuck.

There's plenty of Americans on this board who think this is literal history, whether you do or not this is a discussion of a written source from the past so very much falls under the remit of Veeky Forums even if the other humanities were hived off to another board.

Why would it not be literal history?

You can't just say that things you don't like are not history and things I like are history.

>Only Americans believe X
nice meme

I said this was a history discussion, Maybe you have trouble reading.

why not just go to /x/?

Yes. But it as supposedly written during kings hence the theory about slandering northen kingdom's folk heroes.
My family did not have a lot of money and I went to a soviet school. I did travel the world mainly using the money I got after finishing my service in the Israeli army. Many jews are intelligent but some are not. This board is pretty intelligent overall except when pol comes. Jews do not have a hive mund. If we did I would have know for certain what the sacrifice of Iftah was all about.
Personally I think that those are echoes of stories from barbarous times.
We are discussing an historical document a relic from ancient times. It is not the same as saying that what is written in it is accurate history. For example from all the tale of Iftah its logical to assume that there was some war and he was one of the generals. All the rest is dubious. Like modern media description of an event multipled by generations of rumors.

>an historical document a relic from ancient times

So like literally all other stories of how we understand antiquity? Why should there be a double standard when it comes to Hebrew texts and Greek texts?

Historians don't just simply take any text they find from ancient times as automatically true and a good source of information, that's not how the study of history works at all.

There shouldn't. They are exactly the same.
Imagine Greek paganism being major today and Judaism (including early Christianity) dissappearing with the fall of Jerusalem at 73 ad and you would have a mirror picture of people discussing the bible rationaly while sperging about homeric texts.

Ah so I get to cherry pick what I like and don't like.

Things I don't like never happened.
Things I like did happen.

Change like/don't like to your best hypothesis based on rational judgment based on surviving evidence & being ready to change your mind when new data is found and it will correct.

It has nothing to do with cherry picking based on what you "like" or "don't like".

You ask rigorous questions, such as who wrote it, how biased is that person, have they written other works and have a good record as a chronicler of events, are they an eyewitness, when did they write it, do we have any other independent sources that give the same information, does it chime with an archaeological information we may have etc etc.

When you're dealing with the very ancient past you are also often faced with the unfortunate fact you can't be sure about a lot of things and are only dealing with probabilities.

The shovel and spade have confirmed that the historical information of the Bible is both accurate and reliable.

Archaeology is an important science that confirms the historical accuracy of the Bible. Since the Bible refers to hundreds of cities, kings, and places, we would expect to find evidence from on-site excavations. And this is exactly what we have found. The Bible is the most historically accurate book of history on earth.

bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology.htm

The bible is a vast collection of sources not a single book so if you're asking whether "the bible" is correct then you're already asking the wrong question from a position of academic history.

Fine, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings.
Those books.

I don't know. Not something I've looked into.

Can you tell me the names of the people that wrote them and I'll start doing a bit of research?

thats straight retarded yo

That's just not true. I'm pretty familiar with contemporary archaeological research form first source as an Israeli and while many places etc are correct there are also many things that have not been found at all.
There is no evidence for the stories of exodus, no evidence for the conquest of the land by the ancient Israelites in the time of Joshua, (we see a coexistence and very close links between Israelite and Canaanite cultures for hundreds of years).
We don't have any evidence of King David himself (although his existence is corroborated by referrals to other kings of his line as kings from the house of David from other archaeological sites).
Most of what happened before Judges is folk legends that represent some distant memory of nomadic lifestyle. And Judges themselves are vastly exaggerated with "cities" being no more than villages and huge battles are probably small skirmishes.

>There is no evidence for the stories of exodus
Incorrect. The mountain has been found in Arabia, Aqaba. There are even bulls painted on the walls of a cavern. There are Egyptian chariot wheels found in the bottom of the Red Sea. What are chariots doing in the middle of a sea?

>time of Joshua
The ruins of Jericho has been found.
The Canaanites have engravings of seeking help from Egypt, saying how the Hebrews are conquering their land and they need assistance [see the link given prior].

>King David
Assyrian tablets mention him and his household.

>folk legends that represent some distant memory of nomadic lifestyle
That's your belief, and has no basis on reality. You want to believe these things because of your desire for the Torah to be wrong.

>There is no evidence for the stories of exodus
Incorrect. The mountain has been found in Arabia, Aqaba. There are even bulls painted on the walls of a cavern.
So there is an actual mountain in Arabia, no shit. I guess there is also evidence that the bulls were painted by Isrelites, right?

>There are Egyptian chariot wheels found in the bottom of the Red Sea. What are chariots doing in the middle of a sea?
I don't know, what are old ford cars doing in the middle of the hudson?

>time of Joshua
>The ruins of Jericho has been found.
And dated to another time

>The Canaanites have engravings of seeking help from Egypt, saying how the Hebrews are conquering their land and they need assistance [see the link given prior].
They never mention Hebrews nor the dating is correct

>King David
>Assyrian tablets mention him and his household.
No they are actually aramic and mention Omri, a later king from Davids line and I referred to that in my post.

>folk legends that represent some distant memory of nomadic lifestyle
>That's your belief, and has no basis on reality. You want to believe these things because of your desire for the Torah to be wrong.

I don't have a desire for the Torah to be wrong. I'm just realistic. It seems that you poses the desire for it to be right.

Interesting post.

Btw a charlatan called Ron Wyatt claimed to have found chariot wheels in the Red Sea, it's a totally false erroneous claim. A literal hoax.

>real photos of chariots covered in coral
>"its fake cuz i say so!"

Right, so Ron Wyatt recreated an ancient Egyptian chariot with precise accuracy, then made it look rusty and attached sea fauna to it, then dipped it into the water? Is that what you're saying?

I'm saying you can't provide me a single academic archaeological source that will back this nutty claim you've read on nutty websites.

A.
Physical.
Egyptian.
Chariot.
Is.
Sitting.
On.
The.
Bottom.
Of.
The.
Red Sea.
Floor.

You're denying physical evidence.

No it isn't.

No, the literal Mt. Sinai has been found in Aqaba. Google or YouTube it. The top is even blackened, indicating there was once a huge fire on top of the mountain.

The rock that Moses smashed has also been found [pic related], in the wilderness where Israel wandered for 40 years.

The "gold calf" paintings in caves are just the cherry on top.

>I don't know, what are old ford cars doing in the middle of the hudson?
I didn't know chariots could fly all the way to the middle of the Red Sea.

>And dated to another time
Radiometric dating is extremely flawed and inaccurate. trueorigin.org/dating.php
A freshly killed seal was dated as 1,400 years old. Modern dating methods are not reliable.

>They never mention Hebrews nor the dating is correct
Yes they do. See the link I gave prior: bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology.htm

"Amarna Tablets are a collection of 382 clay tablets written by the Canaanites to Pharaoh of Egypt, asking him for help in defending themselves from the invading Israelites under Joshua."

One tablet says: "The Habiru are now attempting to take Jerusalem"

1400 BC cuneiform tablets, around the time of Joshua's conquest.

>No they are actually aramic and mention Omri, a later king from Davids line and I referred to that in my post.
Right, so you admit Omri, a descendant of David, was a real man.

Another discovery:
`The pagan altar at Tel Dan was originally built by Jonathan, the grandson of Moses in 1340 BC. for 617 years his sons served as dynastic priests until the captivity of 723 BC. Jeroboam set up his golden calf on this altar in 931 BC.´ 930 BC.

>I don't have a desire for the Torah to be wrong. I'm just realistic. It seems that you poses the desire for it to be right.
Yes you do. You are denying evidence when it confirms the Bible is true. You make up pseudo-history in an attempt to wash away real history to suit your atheist worldview.

Why do I have to defend that? It doesn't even belong to my religion, are you drunk?

You are baiting at this point but still, let's imagine that I write a story about epic hero of the 20st century called beta fagot. And in the story beta fagot is chased by a car but than it miraculously falls into a river and he is saved.
So does later archaeologists finding some car in a river dated to our times +/- 100 years makes the story correct? Is there no other way a chariot could have found its way into the red sea? Are you really retarded?

Definitely baiting now. I'm out.

The Amarna Letters confirm the book of Joshua.

bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-maps-conquest-amarna-tablets-letters-akhenaten-habiru-abiru-hebrews-1404-1340bc.htm

The Canaanites document how they were being conquered by the Hebrews.

What are you even arguing with him for? No chariots been found in the Red Sea.

The relative importance of finding 8 Bible kings on a single tablet, dwarfs the fact that it mentions the "house of David", given the fact that the Mesha stele (848 BC) and the Shishak temple (925 BC) also say "house of David". The victory Stele of Hazael therefore, is one of the most important archeological finds ever because it lists 8 different kings listed in the Bible and evidences 3-5 different Bible stories that happened around 941 BC.

Here we have a pagan king gloating about his victories against the House of David.

Then what is this?

>Overall historical narrative of the Old Testament isn't entirely fictional
>Therefore everything it says is true, gods and miracles including

itt: atheists getting obliterated

Rather shiny for a several thousand year old chariot wheel. Anyone that wasn't a nutter desperate to believe can see that. It's probably wreckage off a modern ship or similar.

Like I say you can't provide one proper academic archaeological source to back your crazy tale.

When someone says ``there is no evidence for the Exodus´´, they are lying to you.

The reason they are scared is because Biblical proof contradicts their Darwinian monkey-man mythology.

saudi-arabia has even fenced the mountain off, made it a natural museum similar to what turkey did with the ark.

scoffers are wilfully ignorant, the real issue has always been their hatred towards God, it has nothing to do with evidence or proof (as this thread shows).

like i always say, atheists dont exist: youtube.com/watch?v=qDX6F_O5XB0

Indeed, what a sad irrational bunch.

Psalm 14:1 For the choir director. Davidic. The fool says in his heart, “God does not exist.” They are corrupt; they do vile deeds.

Against my better judgement, since I tend to stick away from these cancer threads,
>Pic
What am I looking at here? Truly intrigued

I have answered this guy´s questions and refuted his claim that there are are no evidences for the events in the Torah. My job is done. The atheists get silent quick when faced with facts.

/thread

Nothing wrong with the story, op. You're just a fucking spineless godless scum. A promise used to mean something

Wyatt is a known fraudster.

isitso.org/guide/wyatt.html

Even creationist sites call him out on his frauds.

answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/has-the-ark-of-the-covenant-been-found/

A mountain called Jebel al-Lawz in Saudi Arabia than even dedicated evangelical Christian archaeologists desperately out to prove the bible say is not Mt Sinai.

biblearchaeology.org/post/2007/10/Mount-Sinai-is-NOT-Jebel-al-Lawz-in-Saudi-Arabia.aspx#Article

That does not explain the Canaanite tablets which confirms the validity of Joshua´s conquest.

The Armana Letters are a fascinating artifact and probably the best thing you have posted and a fascinating artifact, but even the website you posted it from states that most scholars don't agree that the Apiru / Haribu were the Hebrews.

Apparently it's a name used widely during the time period for vagrants / robbers / mercenaries / social underclass, although some scholars also link the word with the Hebrews.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habiru

Like I say it's the best piece of evidence you posted but it's not enough on it's own to declare the confirmed validity of Joshua's conquest and you would be better served if you didn't mix in the good stuff with junk.

What about the split rock, burnt peak and various artifacts in the wilderness where the Israelites wandered around in for 40 years?

There is no reason NOT to believe that the Exodus happened. Just because there isn´t ``sufficient´´ evidence (subjective) that doesn´t mean it never happened, simply because it took place over 3500 years ago and that is a long time for things to get buried or lost.

But we DO have evidence, compelling ones, yet you remain stubborn and ignorant. Be honest and just admit you don´t care about proof, you simply don´t want God in your life.

>What about the split rock, burnt peak and various artifacts in the wilderness where the Israelites wandered around in for 40 years?

That's literally nothing.

Also see

biblearchaeology.org/post/2007/10/Mount-Sinai-is-NOT-Jebel-al-Lawz-in-Saudi-Arabia.aspx#Article

>you don´t care about proof, you simply don´t want God in your life.

I don't know about all the people involved in this conversation but I'm not an atheist and I don't think the Israeli guy was either.

Those splits are obviously not natural. They are man-made.

The rock you posted looks like it fell and cracked like a cookie.

Fell from where? It's not like it's at the bottom of a mountain or something.

I hate to break it to you but split rocks are not exactly a rare thing.

Those splits are zigzaggy, don´t compare them to the one found in the wilderness of Arabia that shows a near clean cut.

...

Not naturally formed.

Hyksos and Habiru refer to the Hebrews.

Yes it is.

Proof?

If you were a rational logical person you´d say ``I don´t know´´, but do you really assume these cracks are natural?

Next you are gonna tell me that perfect pyramids or shapes appear in nature.

And various other groups besides them as well. The article even says it refers to various semitic and non-semitic groups. The ancient Jews were just one among many of those groups, and probably the most influential and strong. But Habiru does not, and never did, refer exclusively to them.

Yes, those other groups were other tribes.
Jews were just 1 tribe of the 12 tribes of Israel.

They were all Israelites who spoke the Hebrew language.

>If you were a rational logical person you´d say ``I don´t know´´, but do you really assume these cracks are natural?
so why do you assume that rock in arabia is specifically the one split by Moses? as far as proofs of the Bible that is an extremely retarded one to look for because, well, it's a rock. if this poster has proved anything it's that split rocks, manmade or not, are not especially rare. so do each of these rocks require a Moses figure to split them?

Absolute fucking nonsense.

>WE WUZ CONQUERORS AND SHIT
No Schlomo, you were a bunch of goatfucker squatting in Canaan and getting conquered by every empire that strolled through your lands.

I know it is because rocks split perfectly naturally and there's no reason for people to go around randomly splitting giant rocks.

That last one was split Apple Rock btw

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_Apple_Rock

0/10 low quality bait

U mad, uncircumsized Phillistine?

Not an argument Jewboys. Entire Biblical account is nothing but the biggest wewuzism mankind has ever seen.

The Israelites literally destroyed everyone they came in contact with.

They got conquered only when God allowed them to be conquered due to bad behavior. The book of Judges is a perfect example of this.

>Israel worships God
>they are victorious in battle
>Israel starts worshipping pagan idols
>God uses enemies to punish them

>this magical book written by butthurt Jewish scribes in Babylon proves that Hebrews destroyed everyone!
Retarded self-glorifying wewuzian fanfiction doesn't count, I'm sorry.

I remember when people put effort into their trolling.

Your tears are delicious.

WE WUZ CONKERERS N SHEEEEEIT

This isn't history or humanities and is in clear violation of global rule #3
Religion threads are cancer and must be stopped

Atheist threads are cancer and must be stopped

I remember when people actually had arguments.

>everyone on Earth spoke Hebrew until God created different languages
>we wuz the 2nd most powerful men in Egypt, we wuz Persian queenz, the fact nobody but us bothered to record it is just a coincidence
>we wuz from emmigrants from Ur who were promised Canaan by God and
>we wuz God's chosen and the most powerful race except we spent the last 3000 years getting BTFO by everyone we met
>God himself made Persia wage war against Babylon because of some tiny bullshit Jewish kingdom that the conquering Persians probably didn't even notice existing
>King Solomon was the wealthiest and wisest man on Earth and every other king paid him tribute, it's pure coincidence that nobody other than Jews ever heard of him during the antiquity
It's literally on par with someone like Latvians claiming that ancient Latvians ruled the Earth, wewuzing ad absurdum. If you actually believe this bullshit you are probably a Jew or a retard, but most likely both.

Atheist threads are religion threads
In thread talking about religion from a non-secular perspective, or is talking about religous texts, or is baiting is cancer and neither history not humanities

>everyone on Earth spoke Hebrew until God created different languages
No.

Hebrew comes from the guy Eber. That is where the language Hebrew comes from.

Aramaic comes from the guy Aram.

No, the name Hebrew is supposed to come from Eber, but the Bible claims everyone spoke the same language before the construction of the tower of Babylon, and that language was supposed to be Hebrew. Anyway it's a bunch of horseshit.

I don't understand why anyone has to "defend" what happened thousands of years ago.

Care to explain what you mean?

We dont know what the universal language was before Babel. Some believe it is Hebrew, others do not.

Any time you think the bible contradicts itself, just know that you are wrong.

There are zero contradictions in the bible, including in the gospels.

I think he's under the delusion that God forced the man to make that oath.

There was no universal language, it's just Jewish wewuzing.