What is the purpose of prayer if God has already predetermined everything in His divine plan?

What is the purpose of prayer if God has already predetermined everything in His divine plan?

Well what would the point of not praying be then?

It gives humans facing imminent tragedy something to occupy their minds with other than their incipient misery. Atheists love misery though so it's no great surprise they hate prayer so much.

>Family member gets sick
>Pray the sickness away instead of taking them to a hospital
>They die
>Lol god didn't want to save them atheists are miserable

Prayer is mostly about self reflection.

The Lord's Prayer is also said during it, which reminds you of asking God to forgive your debts, so that you in turn may also forgive other people's debts. So it's not about wishing on a star.

>I'm going to rewrite the definition of prayer so it doesn't trip the bullshit radars
I love the apologists with their fanfiction which contradicts dogma.

Yeah, but nobody cares about dogma. Christianity is mostly about doing, not talking. Dogma is for talkers, and nobody cares about talkers

Then you must be an anti established-religion gnostic who just believes in a creator then.

It was predetermined that you would pray to have God do things a certain way for you. Just because it was predestined doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it... This isn't determinism. You don't break out of Gods mold.

>What is the purpose of prayer if God has already predetermined everything in His divine plan?


To begin, there are absolutely tons of forms of Christian prayer, to the point it is best defined as an application of the mind and heart towards union with God, whether this be petition, song, meditation, thanksgiving, contemplation, intercession (prayer on behalf of another), asking someone in Heaven to pray for you, or done with any formality or length. Their desire for God in the prayer does not need be explicit either.

We must not misunderstand prayer as “therapeutic" in the sense of motivating us to be righteous and aiding us in that righteous life, though it can be. At the same time we should not be thinking of prayer is a form of wish-fulfillment, as our God is unchanging in his will and, as all-knowing, knows what you need. Instead, Prayer IS a conforming of the heart towards God. Through this greater union we come to deserve what God has willed for us. In this sense, then, God is a practice for self-improvement and to deserve what God has eternally ordained. This is why it is traditionally seen as virtuous.

...

>believes in predestination/determinism
>consideres himself christian

kek, fucking protestant heretics

Prayer kind of makes sense, when you consider that christians see their god as their master or "lord". A lord is basically someone who rules over you, someone higher up in the hierarchy. So it makes sense that if you want something to happen, you would appeal to your lord for it.

As a contrast in pagan european religion a god wouldn't be a lord but rather a mystical, eternal force that is always active, and can either help you or work against you, depending on that particular gods will. In that light, it makes sense to make offerings to the gods because if someone makes you an offering, then you owe him a favor back.
So the pagan god is seen as a really strong guy with no affiliation, whom you want to keep friends with through offerings and such. The christian sees his god as someone who rules over him and who causes everything in his life, so all the christian can do is pray because he is subservient to his god.

You are referring to Calvinism, not biblical Christianity

>family can't afford to take gravely ill family member to hospital for treatment
>resort to traditional psychological support mechanism to prevent everyone from sinking into despair and therefor increasing the odds the patient will find the strength to heal themselves
>sick person dies anyway as they would probably have done even if they went to the hospital
>fedora's on the internet mock the family for it's suffering

As I said, atheists love misery.

>conflates predestination and determinism
>considers himself intelligent

What is the purpose of a relationship without any communication between the two parties involved?

Luther taught predestination as well.

And here we have the heathen who thinks he is heard because of his many words, and his lip service.

Poor, poor heathen, knowing that you have no relationship with the living God, but hoping your church can solve that for you.

You are truly to be pitied as there are none so blind as those who will not see, and none so lost as those who think they are already saved.

Luther, the catholic friar, was wrong on something?

Why, hush my mouth.

It's to devolope faith. It's not about wishing for a result, that's the biggest misconception. The idea is to ask for guidance in order to fixate your mind on being open to his teachings.

Nope. Faith increases by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hear the word, have your faith increased. (Because faith is believing what you have not seen, and by hearing, you do not see).

>family can't afford to take gravely ill family member to hospital for treatment

Jeez, where is this, Pakistan?

Mention free will vs determinism and religious cunts will go apeshit.

Pakistan actually has one of the best healthcare systems in the world.

That's far more a problem for pop scientists.

God says "choose", so you can choose.

Yeah, and three or four chapter there's another verse announcing that everything happens according to God's plan. Other texts will say shit such as 'Your husand died because it was a test for you from god' implying that God plans everything, whereas other texts will say 'you get judged for your sins since you committed them at will'.

Free will and determinism are literally the reason I stopped being a muslim

>Free will and determinism are literally the reason I stopped being a muslim
There is no determinism in islam, dipshit

also, what happens to YOU is planned by GOD

and what YOU DO is planned by YOURSELF

Shut the fuck up, user. Don't talk about shit you don't know or know by second hand wiki pages.

i'm a muslim, dipshit

What happens to you is a result of all what happened to you since you came out of your momma's womb, your dna has a role to play as well. Besides that, external factors intervene too.

You can go one way or another. Either there is a free will or there isn't. Religion claims both at once.

Good muslim as well, I can see.

>every religious opinion that doesn't conform to my shallow understanding of religious dogma is mental gymnastics
Gotta love fedoras. They sure like to pretend they know what they hate.

>. Religion claims both at once.

No,
you know nothing of the "ibtila' " (testing)

basically allah gives you bad news (such as a family member dying, or losing your job) and waits to see if you turn to him or leave him, testing your faith

>"al iman bi l qadar khayrih wa charrih"
>"wa amma man outiya al kitab ... "

Now I haven't practiced islam in two or three years and I still have this shit remembered by heart.

Look, (predetermined) fate is a cornerstone of islam, it's literally one of the six arkanes of belief. At the same time, islam assures us that people will be judged for their sins and rewarded for their virtues.

All in all, bro, islam is a rip off of christianity and thereby judaism. So it has the same fundamental inconsistencies.

>allah kills you father to test your faith

So your father is just a pawn given a soul and life and undergoing a lifetime just so he would die as a test to you? Even typing it is fucking cringeworthy, let alone believing it and defending it. Shit like this is literally a coping machanism. You say that X's death is just a test by god to cope with the loss.

Yeah, no. The Koran is very explicit that Allah himself "hardens the hearts" of the unbelievers, keeping them from becoming Muslims and being saved, so that he can enjoy burning them in fire forever.

So I was standing in a rather large line at my local Wal-Mart today behind a couple families that I know from when I went to church with my family in year younger. It was the only register open so there wasn't much of another option to get my 12 pack of Mountain Dew for a party I was heading to. I was wondering why the line was going nowhere when I decided to poke my head up front to see what the holdup was. It was a little old lady who didn't have enough for her groceries and she was trying to talk the cashier into letting her get away with being short. This struck me as odd until I found out she was a mere $0.21 short of her purchase. Now all these families were just staring and there was even two making fun of her. I walked up and handed my soda to the cashier, handed him a $5 and told her to keep the change. One of the middle aged women (I knew these people, so I also knew that they all make over 6 digits) grabbed her kid and yelled very loudly, "See that man? He's acting just like Jesus wants us to." For some reason this set me off, so I turned around. I haven't shaved in awhile so I'm rocking some nice scruff, a Slayer shirt, and gym shorts, so it must have been a nice sight. Very loudly, I said "Like Jesus? Ma'am I'm an atheist who makes minimum wage and I was the one who stepped up to help her? Your hypocritical Christianity is an inspiration to us all." As I stormed out, a couple of the cart boys started to whistle and cheer, soon shoppers joined in and even the cashier. I gave a wave and went off with a feeling of accomplishment.

But predestination is not the same thing as determinism. You are a bad Muslim

I know.

Islam also teaches determinism, tho. Or rather, it teaches "occasionalism", which is the doctrine that there is no such thing as "natural laws", everything that happens does so thru the direct will of Allah alone. And since Allah is omniscient, this means everything is determined, just by Allah, not by natural laws.

But if it's predestined, then whether I pray or not has no impact on the outcome.

Good question

I'm glad you realized American Christianity is just another tool used by corporate fuckheads to control and distract from the real problems.

>heh all fedorah's are dumb edgy idiots.
>Christcucks obey their oi vey god.

Good trolling, honestly. But sinful despite.

"Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" by Nabeel Qureshi.

You know better than I that you have no relationship with the living God.

You yearn for one.

You don't have one. You just have your church, and it's all you're ever going to have, unless you repent, and are saved.

Self-hypnosis.

He can change the plan you idiot.

>To cope with loss
What's the problem here?

What makes you think events in the past weren't set in motion to answer said prayer?

Baptists make me wonder if the words "Non Angli sed Angeli" were a mistake.

frees up my hands to build a device that will solve my problems or maybe make a sandwich

Because it was God's plan that you prayed.

1. God has not predetermined everything.
2. Prayer is meant to be conversational, penitent, and conductive to communion with the deity.
3. Praying for things is mean, base, and sinful on most occasions.

>Hear the word, have your faith increased.
And then can I cast high-level miracles???

praying is never asking God to give you shit and if you think so you're retarded. Prayer is supposed to be communication with God and still acting by yourself.

Source or gtfo

your ass

I'm not seeing much two-way communication.

Today I learned that Jesus is retarded.

Doubt.
God already knows what's gonna happen, you don't. You pray hopping things are gonna be okay, because you don't know how are they gonna be.

>everything is predestined
>this includes prayer
>have no choice other than to pray when i do

>divine plan
>biblical
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

he just likes to hear you beg

>asking God to forgive your debts
t. Greek