Why'd communism fail so badly? Is the problem inherent within the system?

This.

Also, people are inheritly selfish, so true Communism cannot exist.

Communism promises Utopia and delivers mediocrity.

Capitalism promises nothing, so the masses can never be truly disillusioned.

It was outgunned by international capitalism

>disillusoned that this thing which has never been tried is mediocre in the eyes of some internet kid

Communism is such a radical divergence from every society in the world today that it requires a massive, rapid change to the society where it's being implemented. That change won't come about naturally, especially not at the speed that communists want it to happen, so a powerful state must take over and orchestrate it. Radical change always faces resistance, and the nature of communism - an ideology "for the greater good of the people" - makes it easy to dehumanize opposition.

So the state ends up repressing and often outright purging and murdering anyone who disagrees with them as it becomes the totalitarian state necessary to implement a change to a communist society.

Well turns out all those people you put in power really like being in charge, and so they're going to be pretty averse to the final stage of communism - dismantling the state apparatus. The transition process miraculously never is truly finished, giving continued justification for the existence of the state. Meanwhile, the state can continue to suppress opposition by claiming that they're defending the communist transition. So you end up with just a standard totalitarian state with a communist flavor. Add to it a floundering economy, because communism requires non-organic economic changes that tend to demoralize the populace and go poorly. Sometimes the states can orchestrate some major restructuring of the economy - see the Soviet 5-year plans that effectively forced Russia to industrialize - but actually staying competitive and avoiding stagnation in the long run tends to be impossible while the state is in complete control of the economy.

>"Failed" in what sense?
oh, i don't know how about

mass starvation, corruption, repression, general inefficiency of how the system works along with state-sanctioned slavery, forced relocations, democides, banning people from practicing their traditions like language and religion

Communism fails every time because it's a system that on every level relies on people not being dicks to each other. Unfortunately, most people ARE dicks. Capitalism has its own problems but it at least acknowledges this and in fact relies on selfishness to produce economic prosperity.

Is everybody going to ignore the facts that....

>communism started in the biggest shitholes on the planet
>said shitholes just got done being invaded and butchered
>said shitholes all had bloody civil wars recently
>said shitholes had a cold war declared on them by everybody else on the planet

Why yes, Sir, when everyone tries very hard to make someone fail, he is probably failing.

this basically

Apparently being an author isn't one.
Don't forget, unless you are a wage slave you ain't working.

There's plenty of ways you could say they failed, even from the stance of a commie
>Poor human rights
>Floundering economy at most levels
>Little personal freedom/freedom of choice
>Generally poor standard of living
>Failing to actually create "true" communism and eliminate the state

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perestroika

Most communist point to this as the "failure". Trying to move from the dictatorship of the proletariat phase (allegedly) to a more open, free state.

It failed because only retarded Russians and backwards Asians have ever tried it. If America were to implement communism tomorrow, there is no doubt in my mind we would make it work.

Maybe if you remove Chicago and Detroit.

>Why yes, Sir, when everyone tries very hard to make someone fail, he is probably failing.
When the driving ideology of a state involves killing everyone you disagree with and forcing your revolution on the rest of the world, it's hardly surprising when everyone is working against you.

But no, clearly it was the rest of the world being the bad guy for not wanting the Russia to hold half of Europe as an open-air prison.

Forgot about DDR?

You describe every ideology. Capitalists did try to kill communism. Fascists did try to kill everyone. Muslims are trying too. Christians tried in the past to convert everyone.

Every ideology tries this.

Irrational demonization of individual rights which can either be good or bad depending on the situation and more often than not are good for working class people.

Ignorance of the state-like entities that arise in any decision making process involving large groups of people.

The belief being outwardly communist or from the working class means you will automatically work in their interests.

Glossing over power structures in society, confusing cause and effect, pinning them on abstract concepts like property rights and implying they would disappear if you get rid of that one thing.

Communism was a flawed version of anarchism and anarchism itself is deeply flawed.

They all may try to push their ideology on the world, but at the very least Capitalism doesn't murder its domestic population.

Partially this, but also the fact that it was really old. In 1990, there were questions that an philosopher from the 1840s couldn't comprehend, let alone answer.

>what is the british empire

> Capitalism promises nothing, so the masses can never be truly disillusioned.

Get off Veeky Forums.

Never come here again.

You /pol/-brained sack of shit.

* global

It was outgunned by global capitalism.

Don't even get started on the fact that producers moved all forms of production to the third world. So what's an unemployed White former factory worker suppose to control if the means of production are seized? No means exist within range.

You don't even need to be a commie to see that this was a massive trap, unleashing free speech in a Russian nationalist empire full of other nations was bound to go wrong.

Oh, what about when they turned a war-torn, ruined semi-feudal oligarchy into a society that went toe to toe with the U.S. in its prime in the space race (which, except for the moon landing, it won) ?

Whilst you are at it, you might as well go with him.

That had to do with Russianism just as much as it had to do with communism.

>and you were lynching negroes

this capitalism is closer to being unspooked

Have you ever tried plunging your hand in boiling water?

/pol/ has an anti-capitalist streak now, they support trumptectionism

>X doesn't happen.
>Yes it does, here is an example.
>AHA! Tu quoque fallacy!!!

That was due to a drought and later japs invading burma and threatening shipping in the bay of bengal.

If you look at the facts you will see capitalism is and always is the way forward.

>/pol/ has an anti-capitalist streak now,
Except in America, the true right was never capitalist.

Russians couldn't run a state even before communism was invented. If I could go back in time I'd shoot Lenin, not Hitler.

>not shooting abraham
Come on.

He didn't write anything else and didn't study economics.

Communism is a jewish trick to allow their kind to be NEETs supported by goyim. While they are all party members.

the only thing Stalin did right was purge the jews from the party.

UZ MARSALA TITA

Opposition from the greatest power in world history would be my guess.

what do you call the belief that men should wholly own what they produce, without it being taken by an "owner"?
is this what marx meant when he said the worker should control the means of production?

is this not very similar to what capitalists or libertarians mean when they argue for lower taxes, since they want to own everything "they" produce, without the "theft of taxation"?

could you have a system where employee (worker) owned "businesses" operated in a free market, but were able to reap the benefits of profit for themselves?
what would you call that?

Worker cooperative..

does it work?

Pls

Because of immortal god king Reagan's sanctions or because communism is inherently flawed and collapsed under its own weight. You say mutually exclusive, I say fuck off commie.

>could you have a system where employee (worker) owned "businesses" operated in a free market, but were able to reap the benefits of profit for themselves?
Yes, easily, but since all resources were claimed generations ago, entrepreneurs not born into money are forced to rely on investors to obtain basic tools and materials and will never achieve economic independence.

Ubij se.

there is no natural incentive for anyone to do more than their little slot rewards them for

So you're saying if I managed to take over a small town and spent the entire budget on a marble statue of me break dancing, it shouldn't be destroyed?

If you genuinely think you know what's best for others, know that you would be able to make the right decisions for everyone, and are absolutely sure in your benevolence then you would use any force necessary to quash opposition with a clear conscience since you believe your cause is just and theirs is not. They're the evil ones because you're obviously just trying to do what's for the greater good.

Congratulations. You are now a totalitarian dictator.

You know that was an accident right they weren't trying to hand a statue.

Capitalists deny ordinary people the means to achieve basic necessities in life every day, but I guess that isn't evil.

Because it doesn't work.

>Capitalist countries
>Ordinary people (middle class) are fine and good

>Communist countries
>Ordinary people are poor and starving

>Capitalists deny ordinary people the means to achieve basic necessities in life

That's untrue though. There has never been a system with greater potential social mobility than capitalism.

USA has worse social mobility than western/northern Europe, though. Having exceptionally rich individuals doesn't really make up for it.

>if you are rich you must be a bad person
this is your brain on communism

>USA has worse social mobility than western/northern Europe
No, it doesn't.

>reduced incentive to work hard
there was never a moment in soviet history where a system of differential wages and pay was not in place.

I'd pay to go to the museum that houses it
cmon man would you not

When was the last time you did a rudimentary google search to correct yourself?

people really do rely too much on the internet

>DDR
>Czechoslovakia
>Cuba
>Venezuela

This.

European countries only gain greater social mobility if you set arbitrary metrics on top of social mobility. There's a reason that the studies are all over the fucking place and have to be cherry picked.

Soviet Union never achieved self sufficiency. Despite having massive amounts of land and resources.

Before they started collectivization of the farms. Russia/Ukraine was a global grain exporting super power. Then it all collapsed. Soviets were stuck having to import grains and buying it with oil and gas exported to the capitalists. When the Oil Glut of the late 1980s hit. The Soviets could no longer buy grain to feed them selves. Which caused the food lines. Mikhail Gorbachev(still alive by the way), tried to institute the same market reforms that turned China from a communist backwater to the State Capitalist economic super power. The hardliners rejected it and wanted more communism. they overthrew Gorbachev, they got overthrown, then the CIA and Clinton put Yeltsin in power.

That is wrong. Marx was a journalist and worked for a newspaper.

inb4 the memes but actual communism hasn't been tried. If it has a state, it's not communism. The Soviet Union, despite the name, was state capitalism.

The people that argue against this have no fucking clue what they're talking about and are best ignored for their stupidity.

...

The S stands for socialist, not communist.
The USSR was socialist, which isn't the same as communism.

>inb4 the memes but actual communism hasn't been tried.

youtube.com/watch?v=9Onj4Wx61ps

"they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work"

this was a common joke in the USSR

Russian humor at its finest.

their leaders. they were evil. communism simply doesnt work if you have any evil people around.

>A judge walks out of his chambers laughing his head off. A colleague approaches him and asks why he is laughing. "I just heard the funniest joke in the world!" "Well, go ahead, tell me!" says the other judge. "I can't – I just gave someone ten years for it!"

>Q: Will there be KGB in communism?
>A: As you know, under communism, the state will be abolished, together with its means of suppression. People will know how to self-arrest themselves.

>The Lubyanka is the tallest building in Russia. You can see Siberia from its basement

>Q: How do you deal with mice in the Kremlin?
>A: Put up a sign saying "collective farm". Then half the mice will starve, and the rest will run away.

>Q: What is the difference between the Constitutions of the USA and USSR? Both of them guarantee freedom of speech.
>A: Yes, but the Constitution of the USA also guarantees freedom after the speech
>A man dies suddenly and goes to hell. There he see Hitler neck deep in cow shit and Stalin waist deep. The man ask the Devil "Why is Hitler neck deep, but Stalin only waist deep?" and the Devil says "Because Stalin is standing on Lenins shoulders"

>Khrushchev visited a pig farm and was photographed there. In the newspaper office, a discussion is underway about how to caption the picture. "Comrade Khrushchev among pigs," "Comrade Khrushchev and pigs," and "Pigs surround comrade Khrushchev" are all rejected. Finally, the editor announces his decision: "Third from left – comrade Khrushchev."

>Q: What's the difference between a capitalist fairy tale and a Marxist fairy tale?
>A: A capitalist fairy tale begins, "Once upon a time, there was....". A Marxist fairy tale begins, "Some day, there will be...."

The same reforms? No. Simply put, it's a difference of top-down and bottom-up. No Chinese glasnost' either.

hoover.org/research/how-china-won-and-russia-lost

The oil crises could've been a breeze and lines nonexistent if less emphasis was placed on heavy industry and the controlled economy be optimized through computerization. A suicide of autism- just like the Nazis.

t. gay anal guinea homo jewish cuck millennial of /utg/

if you cannot perform all of the essential steps needed to properly instate your governing structure after overthrowing the old one without society going completely off the rails and causing the deaths of millions of people, it doesn't work.

actual communism has never been tried because it is an inherently faulty system that has no way of being properly installed.

In any society, most people are going to live fairly poor lives, and it's human nature that people in unhappy circumstances will always want a better life, more wealth, etc.

Capitalism works because the people can hold on to the hope that they're just one good investment or one more promotion away from attaining what they desire. Even if the odds are that they will never actually become rich, they keep on living a normal productive life animated by this vague promise of upward mobility.

Communism doesn't offer that. You're a worker and you have what every other worker has and you know it won't get any better; there's no hope within the system. If you want more out of life, the only way you can get it is by dishonest means. So people either fall into despair or they turn to crime and corruption.

>In any society, most people are going to live fairly poor lives

wat the fuck am I reading

Dude youre the only person on the board that spams the "le communism has never been tried" meme. You did it in the gulag archipelago thread and you're doing it now. You're either and expert troll or another retarded commie. Either way you're basically spurdo.

real communism has never been tried

he couldn't even afford board or a home and his career as a "journalist" was extremely limited. Engels paid for everything. He was born to a middle class family. You can't argue that.

by that logic you're denying a homeless person a chance to crash at your place right now

It does though.

>people are inheritly selfish

Not really at all though. It just as stupid as saying humans are innately altruistic and relys on shitty just so isms.
Not communist

Hell being altruistic is beneficial for finding mates.

real capitalism hasn't either.
The ones we have are just Shitty fakes with capitalism spray painted on it.

There are so many of those fucking Lenin statues, it's like every village had one.

The attempts at communism admittedly don't follow what Marx says about revolution in an industrial society. I'm no commie, but marx was arguing the benefit of communism in a developed western society, not the agrarian ones where it actually flourished.

>le industrial maymay
>what was DDR

Fuck that. see

>A man runs through the streets saying "Khrushchev is a fool! Khrushchev is a fool!"
>The man is arrested and sentenced to 21 years in prison.
>1 for insulting the head of the party, 20 for revealing government secrets.