How much longer until 'Communism' collapses in China?

Depends what you mean by communism.

Theoretical communism never existed in China.

Communists and maoists are political dinosaurs.

The Communist Party of China is firmly in control, but what will happen to it as China's middle class grows is a mystery. So far it has avoided all the trappings of historical emerging markets that shake off old authoritarian regimes and liberalize politically, possibly due to the enormous size of China and the autonomy afforded by special economic zones. It may well atrophy and become more the figurehead of a collection of smaller local governments.

>It's not real Communism guys

Even the Chinese admit Communism ended

It isn't tho

Because the American political structure is very different from the Chinese political structure and they don't derive their legitimacy from economic well-being, nor do they influence the economy to anything like the same extent.

The magical thing about having a democratic system like in America, even with only two parties, is that whenever people get mad enough they blame the guys in charge and vote for the other guys.

Whether it'll continue that way with the current impatience with the "establishment" we'll see, though.

Their domain there is firm, their influence over the globe is vast, and it seems like they can get away with a heck of allot of things...

And it seems like they are only expending, and making far greater moves, as well as showing off muscle to their neighbors.
And in extent, to the U.S.A.

I'll say that unless there's some special event or some unexpected rising player, or, any other unpredictable variable...
I probably won't live to witness them fall.
If anything, they'll probably expend, unless their government makes a dumb move...

And currently, they have produced for themselves various forms of boiling points... Both internally and externally.

Still, the strength point of the CCP, is that they already handled an extremely lousy situation within the mess of the Great Leap Forward, let alone, the whole aftermath of WW2, yet... Their people remained loyal to the core to the party, even with all the insanity that is carried on till this day.

It all depends on their new generations...
As long as their people believe their leadership to be supreme, so will their reign carry forth.

touche

Never because their government aren't pussies and they squash any rebellion and they don't give a fuck what the West has to say about it.

Yes, that's why despotic regimes never fail. You ever hear about people like the Shah of Iran? Or Hosni Mubarak? Or any african tin-pot dictator that gets overthrown and eaten?

There's a difference between oppressing people who can't do shit to you and oppressing people who will fuck you up

And what makes you think that the Chinese are incapable of "fucking you up"? The Taiping rebellion was a bloodier war than World War fucking One. The communists got to power in a bloody revolution, against a party that also got to power in a bloody revolution about 30 years prior to the CCP taking over.

5-20 years I'd say

It's state capitalism

Taiping Rebellion happened in a chaotic period for China, what's going on right now in China is the most peace they've known in hundreds of years. Nobody is going to go full Taiping anytime soon.

It won't collapse because there isn't any communism.

>Theoretical communism never existed in China.
I did once and caused a gigantic famine.

Communism as Mao envisioned is already collapsing. The country is transitioning towards a more authoritarian-capitalist system.

In roughly 10-20 years from now, China will be much more liberal due to liberalization and economic prosperities.

The problem there was not that the Qing was not despotic enough, if they cracked down on Hong Xiuquan early enough then that mess would not have happened.

The CCP learnt the lessons from that war and know how to deal with the ring leaders of dissident movements such as the Falun Gong.

The people themselves are not a danger, it's the charismatic individuals who can incite them, so long as you chop off the head of the snake early enough and provide bread and circuses, then despotism will not be defeated.

Reza Pahevi and Hosni Mubarak fell because they granted a few civil liberties to the middle-class. The CCP is not that stupid.

It can fall, but only in a total societal collapse, and the benefitiaries won't be liberal democrats, but neo-Maoists like Bo Xilai. People in the West underestimate the extent towards Chinese people are held under the cultural hegemony of communism. Even their mass opposition to current status is dressed in communist terms.

I heard they're in a bubble about to explode since 1990.

That's just something butthurt westerners say when they can't handle another nations success.

The bubble metaphor doesn't work, it's more like a rising tide that they ride and even if it crashes like the great depression the water is all still there to make it again like with the new deal.

China is socialist with Chinese characteristics, not communist.

>the communist party has totalitarian control over society
>it's not a communist country

>He thinks names mean things

If the primary characteristics of communist regimes through history is the complete domination of every single aspect of society by the communist party, then I will believe that a society where the communist party dominates everything or communist.

It's either that or you accept self-definition of interested political groups, which is an even worse model for history.

It's tied to more than just that, they're the custodians of chinese nationalism.

You really think there were no states pre-1900 that had totalitarian control over society?

The characteristics of a regime claiming to be communist do not define what communism is, Marx, the inventor, defined communism.

I'm a Chinese speaking westerner.

The CCP is immensely popular, advocating for liberal democracy is more or less the reserve of a tiny portion of the population these days in China - They perceive the West as dying, case in point the migrant crisis really brought home to a lot of Chinese just how badly governed western countries are, that they can allow millions of complete randoms to just cross their borders and settle wherever they feel like.

It's honestly hard to explain to your average person whose frame of reference extends, maybe, if you're lucky, to Scandinavia, just how much brand value liberal democracy has lost outside of the western world over the past 20-30 years. It is viewed as weak, ineffectual and held together by incompetent elites.

And we westerners only had ourselves to blame. Even today, at this late hour, there are people who defend western immigration and naturalization policy. To an East Asian or indeed anyone outside of Western Europe and North America, this is a sort of pathological insanity.

No. There weren't.

Communism is the only historical phenomenom we grant this privilege of being defined by it's own proponents. No one defines the "divine rights of kings" according to the writings of Jean Bodin or Robert Filmer, we define it according to the actions of Louis XIV and Charles I.

>Communism is the only historical phenomenom we grant this privilege of being defined by it's own proponents
Other than democracy being defined by the Greeks or Fascism being defined by Mussolini/Hitler or liberty being defined by the French/Americans, all in writing.

You are wrong.

If democracy as we knew was defined by the Greeks, it wouldn't have such a good reputation. Likewise, if fascism was defined as it was defined by Mussolini, it wouldn't have such a bad reputation.

You're right about liberalism. But I consider liberalism part of the same revolutionary tradition as communism, so it doesn't change much.

>Likewise, if fascism was defined as it was defined by Mussolini, it wouldn't have such a bad reputation.
lolwut
Beating the shit out of political opponents and making them drink oil is fine?

The Greeks defined democracy, modern western democracy is just applied on a larger scale.

India can't even control there bathroom habits

3rd world countries want to become 1st world. 1st world countries want a better world. Who'da thunk it. Do you find charities insane as well?

I have no idea what your point is or how it relates to my own post.

Would you prefer to clarify and actually state your positions on these matters, or would you prefer to continue in the same vein, perhaps instead parroting platitudes "human rights" this time instead of "better worlds"?

>No. There weren't.
Yes. There was.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprichnina

I have many chinese connections, they seem to want an increase in democratic rights and freedoms but they do not want any war or revolution whatsoever. They seem to believe improvements will come naturally which it probably will.

>I did
M-Mao?

Your premise is that people in the West ought to be devoted to maintaining their lead on the rest of the world, as if it were a publicly traded company. It's not, there is no expected employee loyalty, and therefore not surprising that people would support immigration and naturalization.

Probably because you're speaking to a select group of either/and overseas Chinese plus English-speaking Chinese.

Is it really so inconceivable to you that liberalism isn't some sort of endgame of all of humanity? Is it really so inconceivable that people look at the racial chaos and balkanization that increases every year in the US, or the fact a massive supranational organization like the EU not only cannot control its external borders but ACTIVELY PENALIZES member states for doing so, and thinks to themselves "shit, we want nothing to do with this".

The arrogance of white liberals is breathtaking. No wonder Chinese mock you so much, they even have a term for you: 白左

Much rather have street shitters than dog eaters tbqh

No. My entire premise is that Chinese people support the CCP and that the Chinese people are overwhelmingly more positive about their future than the people of just about every western nation are.

I don't know where you got:

>It's not, there is no expected employee loyalty, and therefore not surprising that people would support immigration and naturalization.

It makes no sense to me. Are you trying to say that people support immigration and naturalization because white people making themselves minorities in their own countries makes the world a better place or something?

Clarify.

Remember when all the lib rags like the Guardian thought that the Arab Spring in 2011 and Tahrir Square was all about liberal democracy and women's rights?

What is it about liberalism that pulverizes someone's brain until they can only accept autistic whig history explanations of everything?

ITT: China's like 10 years away from ruling the world, but it's like so close to collapse

Tell me how I know your home board is /r/the_donald

>And we westerners only had ourselves to blame. Even today, at this late hour, there are people who defend western immigration and naturalization policy.
"Even today, at this late hour" implies that you find something strange about their behaviors. I'm saying it's completely expected.

>a democratic system like in America
Ha!
> even with only two parties
Same works with only one party. Just find a group or a person inside and make them a scapegoat.

From what I understand, they are trying to democratize the party. At least on the grassroots level. With a goal of having a democratic single party system. Don't know if that can work, but not going to judge that it's worse - two party system or multiple party system all seem shitty to me. Since all indirect democracies can be easily hijacked.

>I'm saying it's completely expected.

No it isn't, as developed East Asian and wealthy Gulf country attitudes and policy towards immigration and settlement clearly show.

Donald Trump is a liberal. Your caricature of him as some sort of fascist shows just how delusional the average western libtard is. All western politics is liberal, even Geert Wilders and Marine Le Pen.

They memory holed all that a long time ago. Same with the French terror attacks, cologne rape attacks, Rotherham etc.

We are dealing with applied autism. Everything can and should be sacrificed in the battle to bring about global liberalism and tolerance, even one's own daughters.

КИHEЗИ ЋE ПOД MAЧ, БATO!

India BTFO!

Just wait until their growth slows, it will be a blood bath if the growth rate goes even close to 0.

How did "comunism" survived Mao then?

>even Geert Wilders
The guy who wants to ban mosques and the quran is the opposite of liberal.

Horseshit you speak Mandarin. Or maybe you do and you've just never lived outside the 1st/2nd tier cities and you think the Chinese people you talk to in your bubble represent the country.

You know how I know you're full of shit? Acting like the majority of Chinese citizens have any strong political beliefs or opinions about foreign countries at all.

Doubtful
China will likely only gain influence in America, if they surpass them economically.
India will always be somewhat irrelevant, unless they magically transform their entire economy and cast system, and suddenly start working hard and develop technologies.

Another this and its over

By it's own, it'll hold.
It'll collapse the moment a powerful external force tries to make it collapse

socialism (total economic ctrl)

Yeah that's basically the message my chinese friend paints me. Scared shitless by Trump though. I'm pretty much behind Trump about everything except going to war with China. I don't wanna be taking shots at a guy I've known and worked with for years.

What do mainlanders think of Taiwan, Singapore, and Hong Kong? They're Chinese, but they have democratically elected governments and stronger freedom of expression, and they are all economically successful, and have a higher standard of living than mainland China.

>question about the future
>hmm, now where would be the best place to ask this?
>no, no, not /int/
>yeah it may be politics technically but /pol/ just doesn't seem right for this
>yes! Great idea, I'll post this thread, which explicitly deals with things that haven't happened yet, ON THE HISTORY BOARD!

>caste system
what is this excellent meme you have my friend.
Tell me how the caste system is holding India back in CURRENT YEAR after being outlawed over 2 generations ago?

market leninism

bazinga baobei

>Probably because you're speaking to a select group of either/and overseas Chinese plus English-speaking Chinese.
My girlfriend is Chinese and I've lived there.
I didn't say liberalism is some endgame, i simply said most Chinese do seek more rights. All humans want more rights, no one woke up and said "I want less rights!". Democratic rights and democracy are not the same thing.

Cao ni ma!

>ban US residents, citizens because of their religion until he figures out "What the hell is going on"

DHS literally came out and said on the day of the ban that residents are not included.

>it's communism when they violate human rights
>it's not real communism whem they are prosperous

>China not ruling the world in 50 years

Kektus. 50 years from now China will have to face the immense ecological damage if it wants to keep up its growth OR experience firsthand what it means to loose jobs too cheaper third world countries.

They are already bleeding jobs to bangladesh etc. while on the other hand their cities suffer heavily due to smoke and a huge fucking desert is growing unchecked.

China is a fucking nightmare run by technocrats. Their environment is quickly turning to shit to fuel the unprecedented growth while it becomes more and more clear that the terms of the world market apply to china.

To mask that they meme about creating high-tech jobs in future industries and research and development. Only problem is that this sector is competed harshly by countries with a huge advantage who offer much better requirements.

>Their only real rival not being India

That's even more absurd. Its not like indian society is totally fractured while the political system completely fails to develop a sufficient central power to make the necessary changes. they aren't even able to stop street shitting (which is a HUGE problem btw, the newborns there are underdeveloped due to no poo in loo).

Also they are locked in cold war/permanent tensions situation with their semi jyhadist neighbours who happen to be in the possesion of nukes.

Just because they have a meme space program thats not going to change.

Real life isn't civilization for fucks sake.

It will be in absolute control until until the country actually has a sever downturn a la Brazil, then they are totally fucked. The party essentially made a deal with the populace after tiananmen that in return for strong economic growth they would acquiesce to the current one party authoritarianism.

Deng Xiaoping completely did away with communism under a series of economic reforms in the late 70s. China keeps its communist iconography but would otherwise give Pinochet an orgasm

The truth is that it's neither. It will always be a second tier country.

>China is a fucking nightmare run by technocrats
>run by technocrats

I...you...what? Pls explain.

>China
>Communist
Pick one.

I was confused by that part too. I really wouldn't describe China as a technocracy, more an oligarchy

China is evolving into a healthy convergence of the healthy aspects of Socialism & Communism; merged with a non mechanistic form of Science; merged with its rooted World View of a non Mystic Taoist Philosophy and Buddhism........

This new Human Culture coupled with the respect and recognizable importance of the Human Animal itself and its place in embracing its Natural Existence will lead eventually to a Healthy Maturation of the Human Species.

As soon as the old Western Mechanistic views of Science, Metaphysics, Divine right based Authority principals based on 'Rights' as well as economic structures rooted in ancient Monarchal ideas have disappeared, this equivalent Patriarchal Authority will lead to a Healthy and Mature Species.

Will occur maybe in another 10000 years provided Humanity doesn't first blow itself to Nuclear Extinction. IMHO Long Live China. Fuk USA & Britain. Especially Britain.

China.

Nobody understands China. But I do. I fucking understand China. So listen to me.

In the next 2 minutes, I'm going to red pill the shit out of you about China. I'm gonna open your eyes. I'm gonna give you a motherfucking epiphany.

On my previous thread, some dummy posted that China has a history of never being occupied.

WRONG.

The last dynasty in Chinese history was the Qing Dynasty. It lasted about 300 years. The rulers of the Qing Dynasty were not Chinese. The rulers were a "barbarian" race called the Manchus. This dynasty successfully lasted for 300 years. China was OCCUPIED and ruled by a foreign race for 300 years.

Why? Why did the Chinese kowtow to the barbarians for 300 years?

Answer: Because of the alternative. Because Chinese people are deathly afraid of shit hitting the fan, because every single time shit hits the fan in the Middle Kingdom, tens of millions of Chinese people die of slaughter or hunger. Therefore, the Chinese people are inherently willing to tolerate bullshit from their authoritarian government in order to stave off the inevitable disaster that is the Chinese dynastic change.

Right now, the same thing is happening. China is on the verge of collapse, but Chinese people are tolerating their bullshit government because they're so terrified of the inevitable. But, trust me, there WILL be a dynastic change. It's absolutely inevitable. It's the nature of China to collapse, again and again and again. China has had 83 dynasties in its history. No. Make that 84, including the PRC.

China is a DOMINO, just waiting to fall and trigger a chain reaction of nonstop ass fucking.

This is the future. Be prepared.

A serious political question? Head on over to /pol/.

The US is an oligarchy too

China isn't communist. And if you are agreeing, this isn't
>/pol/
you have an entire board to discuss this shit. Where the fuck are the "mods"?

>1958-1961
>1966-1969
>1978-1980
>1990-1992
>1999-2000
>2008-2009
>2014-2016

There. Your meme is dead.

>Even today, at this late hour, there are people who defend western immigration and naturalization policy. To an East Asian or indeed anyone outside of Western Europe and North America, this is a sort of pathological insanity.

It's not surprising. If Chinese weren't that autistic and xenophobic they wouldn't have been utterly raped by the Opium Wars

>All the China experts in this thread
Unless you actually work in the Chinese government I'm pretty sure you have no idea how China works.

They are supposedly not Chinese so I don't see the logical inconsistency.

Load of horsecock, people all around the world allowed themselves to be ruled by foreign origin dynasties.

>it's outlawed so it doesn't exist

Jesus christ, Raj. Are you fucking retarded?

The caste system is clearly in place and has severe effects in India.

That doesn't seem to be the point of the post, Chang. But it's true that China got cucked repeatedly by foreigners.

>If Chinese weren't that autistic and xenophobic they wouldn't have been utterly raped by the Opium Wars

Any sources to back up your shit argument?

Your logic is getting very close to
>if you don't accept everything foreign and make it part of your culture then you are going to be raped in war