What is his endgame?

He is a liar, and a thief, and a murderer, from the beginning.

He lied to Eve, stole the earth from Adam, and murdered both of them.

To retake the kingdom of heaven even though he knows its impossible. he is to prideful to admit he cant

In Paradise Lost-to be King of the Universe.

Milton's Satan is his anti-royalist sentiment incarnate, and thinks that God just happens to be in power and can be overthrown. He's wrong, but he didn't realize that.

Does satan actually enjoy it in hell? How could god fuck up so hard he makes an angel that revels in enternal torment without a hope of redemption?

If we are to believe the Koran, Satan may yet still exist and have yet to be turned to hell. He is creating mischief in some form or another here on God's creation either on the creation, or in the hell.

The existence of hell leads me to believe that it may have been self-created or exists as an alternate reality in the future where 100% doubt exists. So it's kind of figurative but not really because I'm positive physical torture happens.

Traditionally, Satan isn't a particularly important figure, and he's not depicted as powerful, to the point where he's often portrayed as comically inept and pathetic.

Protestantism has essentially become some weird Dualism where Satan is basically an Evil God.

In Folk Catholicism, he was basically, at his best, the big bad inmate who runs the prison on the inside, but is still locked up.

In proper Catholicism, he's hardly mentioned contemporaneously

>How could god fuck up so hard he makes an angel that revels in enternal torment without a hope of redemption?

He doesn't. Satan hates the fact that because of his form and creation, that of being an angel, he was given one choice, obey or be cast out, and one alone. He the fact that the Lord God deigned to give humanity the ultimate gift of being given new choice after new choice to obey and love the Lord. Satan and his demons, in their jealousy of man's ability to choose time and again, seek to bring down all men into torment with them as a final act of spite against their Creator.

It's pretty instructive to compare Milton's (Protestant) Satan with Dante's (Catholic) Satan. Dante's Satan is very different than Milton's.

>"choose" god or you suffer eternal torment
Doesn't sound like much of a choice to me. Can Christcucks pls exblain this one?

>If Satan really cared about opposing God he would reward the unbelievers, not punish them.
He doesn't punish them. That only happens in cartoons.

satan is the most damned prisoner of hell, not its ruler.

Sure.

You get to choose to to do what Yahweh says.

Or you go to hell.

This isn't hard to understand m8. Islam makes it even simpler, because you don't even get a choice as you get tortured/brainwashed into being a good Muslim at the end of days.

>where 100% doubt exists
Christianity didn't even exist 10.000 years ago

Those three religions are all very similar. It's what made me consider the validity of Islam in the first place. I mean, really, the world is opening up, a chasm is widening, between the believers and the non-believers.

Neither did the world, most likely.

Well good thing you're objectively wrong.

Where is the objective evidence? You have none.

isnt it pretty much accepted by biblical scholars that the serpent and the devil are two different individuals?

See The artists were not inspired by comics. But Satan wears a crown and he and other demons torture the dammed souls.

Very interesting discussion guys. Might i interject with an inquiry as to where the Antichrist (alla' the omen/Damien) fits into all this? Or is he/it a meme?

The Catholics generally believe the apocalypse will happen in metaphor while protestants tend to side with literalism

The Anti-christ is mostly a meme perpetuated by Hollywood. Originally it just meant someone opposed to Christ, Hollywood turned it into the Devils child. Someone who knows more than me can probably elaborated.

No. Shut up now.

yes you are correct.
is probably very happy with how his world is shaped from his limited interpretation of sacred texts and wants other people to stick in the same pool of ignorance.

Let me set this straight:

1) Lucifer is not Satan as far as comparative religious studies goes.
2) Lucifer has been equated to Satan as a Fallen Angel via: folk faith, christian-pagan syncretism and plain bad translation of the Bible.
3) Lucifer as a concept / etymologically speaking equates more to Venus/ Hesperus, and Roman pagan gods.
4) Satan is hebrew in origin and is tied to Fallen Angels only lately by Islam fanfiction in the Quran.
5) Only places where you have fallen angels in the "Romantic" sens are in Jewish Apocrypha (book of enoh for example)

6) Today, the way people understand Lucifer and Satan are more indebted to bible-fan-fictions such as Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, alongside Romanticism's "modern" myths rather than straight up theological sources.

a good harvest.
tho don't look for any reason or logic or any info at all in the bible. try other sources.

Steiner?

GOD cannot be overthrown
But your petty demiurge can

I was raised in a Baptist church. I am not a Christian though but I know the Bible.

I have one piece of advice for you, if a person comes into power over the whole world and wants people to take a "mark" on their hands or head DONT DO IT.

>gods.
>4) Satan is hebrew in origin and is tied to Fallen Angels only lately by Islam fanfiction in the Quran.

Except Satan isn't an Angel in the Quran, you fucking retarded piece of shit.

>AGE OF DECEIT
youtube.com/watch?v=wjmFm8PIz8M
>The Choice
youtube.com/watch?v=S-SzIJngWqE
>Noah - The Truth is Bigger Than You Thought
youtube.com/watch?v=lktmmd7YnD8
>Dualism / Gnosticism / Satanism explained
youtube.com/watch?v=ZUkiBz9rYEs

Or watch Bill Cooper's "Mystery Babylon" podcast.

Lucifer/Satan wanted to overthrow God, but couldn't.
So now his plan was to ruin God's creation through the Fall.
Satan makes people believe that we can become gods ourselves, that we don't need a savior or redeemer.
Satan is behind every false religion and demonic doctrine.

(1/2)
"The" Antichrist, as understood by Hollywood, is based on the apperance of three (arguably four) characters in Revelation. You have the Dragon, also known as the Ancient Serpent, who is simultaneously the main adversary to the armies of Heaven and a reference to either the Edenic serpent or Leviathan. And since in popular understanding, Edenic serpent = Lucifer = Satan, the Dragon is Satan. In addition to opposing the forces of Heaven, the Dragon gives power and authority over the earth to the Beast from the Sea, who is presented as having a mortal wound on one of his heads but lives anyway. The world is amazed by this Sea Beast, who survived death and appears to save them from the torment they're experiencing due to God's wrath. The third is the Beast from the Land, or the False Prophet. The Land Beast instructs the world to worship the Sea Beast and his image, and also provides signs and wonders. This is where the whole Mark of the Beast thing also comes in, where you must swear allegiance to worshiping the Sea Beast if you want to buy or sell.

If you squint, what we have here is an inverse Trinity. There's the Dragon, Satan, who is the "God of This World" and was always thought of as a sort of Anti-God. Then you have the Sea Beast, the "son" f the Dragon who saves people from their torment at Yahweh's hand and survived a mortal wound. He's a pretty clear inverse Christ, or "Anti"-Christ, and since that term already existed in the Bible and is catchier than Beast from the Sea it caught on. Then you have the False Prophet, who forces each individual to worship the Sea Beast and causes eternal damnation, in much the same way the Holy Spirit medates belief in Christ and causes eternal salvation. Divorced from whatever John of Patmos' original intent was, the idea of an inverse trinity and "the" Anti-Christ was too juicy to ignore, and from that we get the modern understanding.

(2/2)
But just as nobody really does anything with the Holy Spirit, nobody ever really does anything with the False Prophet. Even when someone uses the term The Beast instead of The Antichrist, they're almost always referring to the Sea Beast and not the Land Beast. Most stories limit themselves to God the Father and his son Christ, and on the inverse side most stories limit themselves to Anti-God and his "son" the Antichrist.

Actually my friend you're off on a few points;

Satan and Devil are terms from the hebrew words for adversary and deceiver, and are his title now. Lucifer is his name/original heavenly title meaning lightbringer and is only mentioned as being his name once in the Bible, in Isaiah when describing his fall from grace due to his evil and pride. The Greek septuigint and most accurate translations say Lucifer/Lightbring while more neutered modern english versions change that line to morningstar instead of his name which is where many people get the idea of equating him to venus since it was known as the morning star, this is also further muddled by the frequent metaphorical references of angels as stars in the Bible. Fallen angels are mentioned in the real books of the Bible as well, satan was charismatic enough to convince one third of the angels to follow him when he fell. In genesis these fallen angels are said to have interbred with women to create the monstrous nephilim who were wiped out by the flood.

Excellent choices, keep spreading the word brother.

youtube.com/watch?v=9iu3XcULf_E

>Jewish Apocrypha (book of enoh

fuck, I need to get a hold of that

its just a google away.

HEAVY METAL CULT STATUS HERE I COME

The global dominion of the Roman Catholic Church

Hes the guy God uses to test mankind.

Then I don't believe becuase of "God's love," I believe because of fear. That's extortion.

Carbon dating?

>Neither did the world, most likely.

>I was raised in a Baptist church.

Southern Baptist here

You're free to go wherever you want. We're just trying to warn you that left path, however you want to construe it, fucking sucks and will make things on earth around you suck. That's all anyone ever meant by this.

As I recall it involves being cast into a lake or sea of fire

Netflix and chill

tfw raised atheist

We are our own gods. All our goodness, our beauty, our works of art, though we may give God the credit, we did ourselves. God gave no help. We do not want or need him.

what a piteous, culturally empty upbringing :(

Sheep

you are the one getting shepherded around by the mainstream :D

Good stuff, thanks

I know. But it drove me to religion. I feel like kids who are raised religious rebel into atheism but for me it was the opposite which is kinda nice I guess but I don't have that young faith ground into me.

>comparative religious studies
>folk faith
>christian-pagan syncretism
>plain bad translation of the Bible
>etymologically speaking
>Jewish apocrypha
First of all, there are no academics on this board. Just like how there's no females on the internet. Either show us your PhD or stop trying to sound like an academic. Academic on Veeky Forums is a stale meme.

Second of all, your muddying the pure waters of truth with your religious studies minor and all of your academic bullshit research is not going to save you from the reality of that truth. Satan is real, and is bad in the sense that he wants to trick you into rejecting God and being thrown into Hell. What he wants is for people to not believe in demons, and sum up the belief in their existence to folklore and religious syncretism. You're playing into his hand.

this
you know, i've always wondered, how is it that Satan retains the ability to speak through the snake in the garden after his fall..isn't he already imprisoned in Hell??

>isn't he already imprisoned in Hell??
No.
>1 Peter 5:8
>Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
>Job 1:7
>And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Basically, Satan wanders the Earth searching for people to mess with. He commands legions of demons, some more powerful than others. Some act alone, some act as many. Satan and his demonic followers want to convince you that there is something after death other than the eventuality of Heaven and Hell. He wants to get as many people as possible to reject God and be thrown into Hell, because he is damned to go there also. They are angry, full of hate for God. Because they hate God, they hate you and me as well.

One day, though, even Satan will be cast into Hell.
>Revelation 20:10
>And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

It is because of this eventual fate that Satan hates God and hates everybody. Do not believe the lie that Satan and his demons are not real. They want you to believe this, so they will have free movement and not be recognized.

t. Satan

No, they're just edgy fedoralords.

Actual Satan would try to convince you that he's not real.

>Satan and his demonic followers want to convince you that there is something after death other than the eventuality of Heaven and Hell. He wants to get as many people as possible to reject God and be thrown into Hell

>implying his pride won't compel him to praise himself on an anonymous imageboard

Majority of western countries are Christian, what the fuck are you on about?

lol the myth that satan is some thing with a pitchfork, whatever. read the original bible the Tanakh, book of job.

>you know, i've always wondered, how is it that Satan retains the ability to speak through the snake in the garden after his fall..isn't he already imprisoned in Hell??

For what it's worth the Serpent is never explicitly identified as Satan. Just "a serpent."

The Serpent is actually Samael, right? Is Samael related to Lucifer or Satan?

>
>Majority of western countries are Christian, what the fuck are you on about?

How is the degenerate filth shown in the media in any way Christian? How is the endless rat race for money and power Christian? How is the US President, who has divorced and remarried a Christian? How is the United States a Christian nation when it was founded by freemasonry? How is France, a country that openly supports homosexual unions Christian? How is Canada, a country which decriminalizes bestiality Christian?

If you mean the majority hide behind their "faith" when it suits them, then sure I agree with you. But you want to say that you live in a Christian society when you don't. You live in a society where the majority of people have an abstraction called faith, and use that to hate gays, other religions, and whatever else a random televangelist tells them to that week.

That's not christianity, it's a joke. It's a pale reflection of what the truth really is. And it's the reason every day, porn sites get bigger. It's the reason abortion activism increases year after year, even though the Catholic Church and all the different flavors of Protestant flakes condemn it. "Christians" in the west have become modern day phrases. "Christians" love their material pleasures more than respecting God, or helping their fellow man.

Christianity died a long time ago. This now is a joke, not Christianity.

>Th-they're not REAL Christians!!!
Face it Christcuck, your religion was always shitty.

Many of the evil entities in the Old Testament are just assumed to be Satan but likely aren't. The serpent if Eden and the tempter of Job being two examples.

He fell to earth. Not to hell, that comes later.

There's also a fourth beast, the beast that the harlot of Babylon rides on.

is that metal? only skinnyboi fags listen to metal

you faggot
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_(Islam)
in Islam Iblis is an Angel

actually, not.

Have your read Isaiah?
The passage where "Lucifer" is named is about a babylonian king's fall from grace through his hubris. His fall from power is compared to falling from heaven as a metaphor.

Also, equating Isaiah (which is only a bad translation) with Apocalypse is just the Church tryharding to fabricate an enemy. The Fall of Angels from the Bible is BEFORE the Creation of Man. You confuse Apocrypha with Canon.

I didn't say I was an academic; so if you're butthurt about what I said, no need to take it on like a girl.

Secondly, I did not say Satan does not exist. I said Lucifer and Satan are vastly unrelated concepts that were linked mostly by fan-fictions based on the Bible.

If you don't know your own religion but at the same time proselytise witch-hunting, then you successfully incarnate the ignorance which has used the message of Christ against the people.

>there are no academics on this board

speak for yourself

WOOHOO, THE WESTBORO CHURCH IS HERE

Except the radicalisation of Islam is what leads people to want to stay away from it and might even make some people faithful to their mother religion to protect themselves from something foreign.

3.And I came to the Garden of Righteousness, and saw beyond those trees many large trees growing there and of goodly fragrance, large, very beautiful and glorious, and the tree of wisdom whereof they eat and know great wisdom.

4. ⌈That tree is in height like the fir, and its leaves are⌉ like (those of) the Carob tree: and its fruit is like the clusters of the vine, very beautiful: and the fragrance of the tree penetrates afar. 5. Then I said: '⌈How⌉ beautiful is the tree, and how attractive is its look!' 6. Then Raphael the holy angel, who was with me, answered me ⌈⌈and said⌉⌉: 'This is the tree of wisdom, of which thy father old (in years) and thy aged mother, who were before thee, have eaten, and they learnt wisdom and their eyes were opened, and they knew that they were naked and they were driven out of the garden.'

1. The second vision which he saw, the vision of wisdom--which Enoch the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, saw. 2. And this is the beginning of the words of wisdom which I lifted up my voice to speak and say to those which dwell on earth: Hear, ye men of old time, and see, ye that come after, the words of the Holy One which I will speak before the Lord of Spirits. 3. It were better to declare (them only) to the men of old time, but even from those that come after we will not withhold the beginning of wisdom

[...]
1. And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. 2. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.

3. And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory. 4. The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever. 5. And the second voice I heard blessing the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. 6. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits. 7. And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. 8. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: 'Who are these four presences which I have seen and whose words I have heard and written down?' 9. And he said to me: 'This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who

p. 60

is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.' And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.

3. And there mine eyes saw the secrets of the lightning and of the thunder, and the secrets of the winds, how they are divided to blow over the earth, and the secrets of the clouds and dew, and there I saw from whence they proceed in that place and from whence they saturate the dusty earth. 4. And there I saw closed chambers out of which the winds are divided, the chamber of the hail and winds, the chamber of the mist, and of the clouds, and the cloud thereof hovers over the earth from the beginning of the world. 5. And I saw the chambers of the sun and moon, whence they proceed and whither they come again, and their glorious return, and how one is superior to the other, and their stately orbit, and how they do not leave their orbit, and they add nothing to their orbit and they take nothing from it, and they keep faith with each other, in accordance with the oath by which they are bound together. 6. And first the sun goes forth and traverses his path according to the commandment of the Lord of Spirits, and mighty is His name for ever and ever.

p. 61

[paragraph continues] 7. And after that I saw the hidden and the visible path of the moon, and she accomplishes the course of her path in that place by day and by night--the one holding a position opposite to the other before the Lord of Spirits.

And they give thanks and praise and rest not;
For unto them is their thanksgiving rest.
8. For the sun changes oft for a blessing or a curse,
And the course of the path of the moon is light to the righteous
And darkness to the sinners in the name of the Lord,

Who made a separation between the light and the darkness,
And divided the spirits of men,

And strengthened the spirits of the righteous,
In the name of His righteousness.

9. For no angel hinders and no power is able to hinder; for He appoints a judge for them all and He judges them all before Him.

youtube.com/watch?v=EApXhO0Tx-8

l. And after those days in that place where I had seen all the visions of that which is hidden--for I had been carried off in a whirlwind and they had borne me towards the west-- 2. There mine eyes saw all the secret things of heaven that shall be, a mountain of iron, and a mountain of copper, and a

p. 70

mountain of silver, and a mountain of gold, and a mountain of soft metal, and a mountain of lead.

3. And I asked the angel who went with me, saying, 'What things are these which I have seen in secret?' 4. And he said unto me: 'All these things which thou hast seen shall serve the dominion of His Anointed that he may be potent and mighty on the earth.'

5. And that angel of peace answered, saying unto me: 'Wait a little, and there shall be revealed unto thee all the secret things which surround the Lord of Spirits.

6. And these mountains which thine eyes have seen,
The mountain of iron, and the mountain of copper, and the mountain of silver,
And the mountain of gold, and the mountain of soft metal, and the mountain of lead,
All these shall be in the presence of the Elect One
As wax: before the fire,
And like the water which streams down from above [upon those mountains],
And they shall become powerless before his feet.
7. And it shall come to pass in those days that none shall be saved,
Either by gold or by silver,
And none be able to escape.
8 And there shall be no iron for war,
Nor shall one clothe oneself with a breastplate.
Bronze shall be of no service,
And tin [shall be of no service and] shall not be esteemed,
And lead shall not be desired.
9 And all these things shall be [denied and] destroyed from the surface of the earth,
When the Elect One shall appear before the face of the Lord of Spirits.'

1. There mine eyes saw a deep valley with open mouths, and all who dwell on the earth and sea and islands shall bring to him gifts and presents and tokens of homage, but that deep valley shall not become full.

2. And their hands commit lawless deeds,
And the sinners devour all whom they lawlessly oppress:
Yet the sinners shall be destroyed before the face of the Lord of Spirits,
And they shall be banished from off the face of His earth,
And they shall perish for ever and ever.

And they shall perish for ever and ever.

3. For I saw all the angels of punishment abiding (there) and preparing all the instruments of Satan. 4. And I asked the angel of peace who went with me: 'For whom are they preparing these instruments?' 5. And he said unto me: 'They prepare these for the kings and the mighty of this earth, that they may thereby be destroyed.

6. And after this the Righteous and Elect One shall cause the house of his congregation to appear: henceforth they shall be no more hindered in the name of the Lord of Spirits.

7. And these mountains shall not stand as the earth before his righteousness,
But the hills shall be as a fountain of water,
And the righteous shall have rest from the oppression of sinners.'

1 And I looked and turned to another part of the earth, and saw there a deep valley with burning fire. 2. And they brought the kings and the mighty, and began to cast them into this deep valley. 3. And there mine eyes saw how they made these their instruments, iron chains of immeasurable weight. 4. And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: 'For whom are these chains being prepared?'

p. 72

[paragraph continues] 5. And he said unto me: 'These are being prepared for the hosts of Azâzêl, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded.

6. And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.'

3. When I have desired to take hold of them by the hand of the angels on the day of tribulation and pain because of this, I will cause My chastisement and My wrath to abide upon them, saith God, the Lord of Spirits. 4. Ye †mighty kings† who dwell on the earth, ye shall have to behold Mine Elect One, how he sits on the throne of glory and judges Azâzêl, and all his associates, and all his hosts in the name of the Lord of Spirits.'

>the bible is true :D
Jesus said he would be back before his disciples died.
He failed.