Why is there such animosity between Northern Italians and Southern Italians...

...

How exactly is do they rank regions as developed. A place like Devon should be much more developed then some barren tundra in Finland.

What are you trying to point? That north italians are modern cucked homosexuals?

t. inbred Shitcilian terrone

north italians is infested with south italians since the 60's, the main problem is the lack of interest for the developing of southern regions by the government and the general corruption that comes after that. also lu sole lu mare

>implying cousin marriage is wrong
Too much outbreeding is just as bad.

>That north italians are modern cucked homosexuals?
That's a given.

>lack of interest for the developing of southern regions by the government
I wouldn't call untold billions wasted in development projects "lack of interest". The place is simply too corrupt to salvage just by democratic government intervention.
Really, it needs to either be quarantined off without brain drain until society implodes and reboots, or to be literally colonized. Sadly it's part of a legally first world country, so there's literally no profit whatsoever in colonizing the place, and certainly the quarantine idea could never be implemented in the modern day.

You're okay if you marry 3rd+ cousins, 1st is almost as bad as fucking your sister.

Southern Italy has been irrelevant since the Vesuvio eruption pretty much. Their post-Roman history consists of being conquered and subjugated by a multitude of different people. Nothing of value came from there except pizza, mafia movies, shitty stereotypes and annoying accents. Central and Northern Italians like to distinguish themselves from them because we ARE different. We don't speak the same (regional) language, we don't have the same culture and we don't have the same history.

t. master race Venetian ruler of the seas

I'd say southern Italy's irrelevance started when Charles of Anjou rekt Manfredi Hohenstaufen at the battle of Benevento actually.

can't wait for you faggots to drown

You know, we've already mostly moved to the mainland. There's only old folks, tourists and a few uni students there nowadays. Most workers and students actually commute.

Southern Italy became irrelevant when international trade shifted to northern Europe.
If every single country in Europe was trying to seize Naples from each other for 500y it's for a good reason.

Northern Italians are just regular Europeans. Italian-speaking Swiss for all intents and purposes. They're not Mediterranean master race and are salty as fuck about it.

>we were relevant because we got ruled by other people

Terroni logic.

>master race Venetian

We are more Mediterranean than you think. Even Iberians are less Mediterranean than us.

>salty irrelevant Lombards

CASANOVA'D

I fucking hate these autism maps, we were Phoenician/Africans, it makes no sense that we are genetically isolated

>terroni del nord
>still just as prosperous in spite of complete government abandonment as opposed to decades of forced industrialization
Jelly much?

Get over it, Mr. early Anatolian farmer.

I guess your Nuraghes prevented you from getting cucked.

Are southern Italians (read: the peninsula itself + Sicily) and the northern Italians (that circular/oval chunk jutting into central Europe) basically different ethnicities? They look pretty different, have distinct cultural customs and pasts, and until the mid 20th century their language dialects were mutually unintelligible.

Ethnicity in the old world is complicated. For most of human history people defined themselves more by the town or village they lived in than any large region.

I'd say Italians have more in common with one anther than Slavs and Arabs but still show great distinction.

>basically different ethnicities
Pretty much, yeah. Kinda on the level of spaniards and portugueses. You can certainly make an argument that we're all italians ethnically NOW, but certainly not 50 years ago, nevermind 150.
>until the mid 20th century their language dialects were mutually unintelligible
They still are mutually unintelligible (hell even tuscan, so called mother language of italian is basically unintelligible to northerners), we just all know italian now. A good many dialects are actually full blown languages actually.

Developed = degree of cucked.

The Italian peninsula was never homogenous. Etruscans weren't even Indo-European and Messapians were fucking Illyrians (i.e Albanians).

>Cyprus, which has been in an international deadlock since the 1970s is more developed.
Wew.

>The Italian peninsula was never homogenous.
No place is. Races form when ethnogensis occurs. Not from being eternally homogenous.

>Are southern Italians (read: the peninsula itself + Sicily) and the northern Italians (that circular/oval chunk jutting into central Europe) basically different ethnicities?
Kinda yes, but I disagree with the borders. The division is basically south=(kingdom of two sicilies plus Lazio) north=(from Tuscany upwards). Basically 95% of the cultural differences can be traced back to the mercantile/urban vs aristocratic/rural divide in the middle ages.

Well yeah, but I'm the late 19th/early 20th century Italians had still developed a sense of nationalism right?

>you can make an argument that we're all italians ethnically NOW, but certainly not 50 years ago, nevermind 150

That's pretty recent, anything big happen 50 years ago or was it gradual?

>They still are mutually unintelligible (hell even tuscan, so called mother language of italian is basically unintelligible to northerners), we just all know italian now. A good many dialects are actually full blown languages actually.

Still? That's pretty fascinating. It reminds me of a smaller version of the "Han Chinese" meme, where there are noticeable physical differences within this one supposed group and the subgroups within it speak dialects that are basically their own languages.

Never thought I'd actually get anything on Veeky Forums, thanks Italianon.

Why is there such animosity between Cisalpine Gauls and Magna Grecians? Cisalpine Gauls seem particularly buttblasted about the Magna Grecians.

That map is wrong, it's not %, it's permille.

>Gaul meme

They only expanded into the north much later: Ligurians and Veneti were Italic like everyone else and Rhaetians seemed to speak a language isolate.

>meme

>anything big happen 50 years ago
Mass media and mass education happened. Also a good deal of internal population movement.

>They only expanded into the north much later
They also got literally genocided or evicted between the post 2nd punic war purge and the post social war purge. A few tribes like the boii literally decided to leave at some point too.

You know, they didn't used to control those lands. Emilians are too dark to be descended from the Gauls.

...

I see these maps posted from time to time but they seem kinda bullshitty to me. Actual black hair is about as rare as blonde in the north, the vast majority is brown haired.

Also, as a black haired blue eyed guy, it feels silly as fuck to force together hair and eye colours.

It isn't that high, not even in Sardinia

I think he classified "very dark brown" as "black" there since he did the same for eye color as well. Nobody can have black eyes, only very dark brown that appears black under certain lighting.

This one is interesting though. I can say that Venetians indeed have high rates of red hair from personal experience, but I dunno if it's accurate overall.

It had a nice location, doesn't mean it was valuable or productive otherwise. Think Jerusalem, which has been conquered and reconquered who knows how many times throughout history. That piece of land lacks any resources and until the past 3 decades the entire region was pretty unproductive for the rest of history.

Unless by "very dark brown" he meant pic related, I'm still calling bullshit.

They had olives and purple dye though.

I live in the far north of Italy, I only speak standardised italian, unlike many elders. When elders speak our local dialect I can't fucking understand a word, tuscan and roman dialects are much easier to understand

>I only speak standardised italian
>tuscan and roman dialects are much easier to understand
That's because north italian dialects are literally in a different language group from standard italian, tuscan and roman.

yeah I know I was just givin insight

Instead of being a lazy bum why not learn the language of your elders?

>muh
Have any Italian anons ever been to these isles? Curious what they're like. My grandfather came from there and I guess there is still extended family living there.

Probably something like this. Maybe a little lighter.

forgot image

I've tried but there's little to no documentation and not even my father has nor had the time/will to teach me

>I only speak standardised italian
How the fuck even? I never even met anyone who couldn't speak his local dialect at least at a rudimentary level. Even the immigrants learn it, from terroni to chinks. Actually chinks seem to learn the dialect before the standard, even.

I certainly have an accent, and some features of the dialect, such as a couple word here and there that are used only in my region, but I can't go all "uelà mi sum nai a vedere la nina cha gà na roba intal stomac" or some shit. I'm improvising based on what I hear, I have no idea how to actually speak it, and I'd say, like, maybe 1/3 at most of young people can, here

If I remember correctly, the economic disparity between southern Italy and central and northern Italy developed early on in the Romans' control of the peninsula way back in the kingdom period of Roman history. I forget exactly what the circumstances are though.

>I forget exactly what the circumstances are though.
The north was an important agricultural area and it had very well developed industries by Caesar's time. In the south Sicily was fertile but got razed like every other year, while magna grecia aside campania was arid and rocky.

Sicily was poor as fuck compared to the peninsula.

And that was also maintained as time went on, as huge economic hubs were created like Venice and Genoa {Milan-Rome ect.} which spread wealth around the surrounding area, where as the south didn't have massive hubs like that and were not as easily accessible to neighboring nation states.

They only have a population of 11k people. Dunno what goes on there.

>They look pretty different
bullshit
whoever says such a thing is either bullshitting or he doesn't know what he's talking about
you can find thousands of different facial traits in both north and south

>randomly picking a year
yeah easy, try when it was greek or normand

What are you about? user replied to a comment about roman Italy with a pic about roman Italy. Greeks and normans are unrelated to the period.

Well of course, I think {at least} they were referring to the average person, if you just took them off the streets. They tend to have different features/skin tone. Saying they're different ethnicity is just plain retarded though, it's not that extreme.

why are the dodeccanese in the aegean blue. what makes them richer than the rest of greece

Sicily was poor because of unequal land distribution, all of the farms were large estates powered by slavery called latifundia. This land distribution scheme outlasted both halves of the Roman Empire, the entire medieval + early modern + industrial period, and would only come to an end by 1950.

>but the scene is always the same; everywhere solitude and desolation that wrings the heart

jstor.org/stable/29776533

tourism shekels

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italiotes

So the Italiotes were Italic tribes living next to Greek settlements who spoke Greek?

doesn't the rest of greece get that too?

>The Italiotes (Greek: Ἰταλιῶται, Italiōtai) were the pre-Roman Greek-speaking inhabitants of the Italian Peninsula
>Greek-speaking
>Greek-speaking
>Greek-speaking
The greek settlers called themselves italiotes. The italic tribes called themselves by their own ethnic affiliation.

Not nearly as much as the regions on those maps, and I think a lot of that also comes from people taking cruises, they stop off at those locations. So you have a lot of wealthy people who want to enjoy the Mediterranean and have money to spend. And I assume those other reasons are going to be hurting even more which the whole migrant issues as of late, people staying away. It'll pass eventually though.

>Saying they're different ethnicity is just plain retarded though

In my opinion, I think there's enough genetic difference between northern, central and southerners Italians and SPECIALLY Sardinians for us to classify them as separate people.

This map is a good argument against marxism.

more like it's a good argument against pseudo communist dictatorships

t. wikipedia genetist
you can even find people that look like an irishmen in the south as you can find somebody with stronger semitic features in the north
this is simply plain retarded

look like irishmen*

lad, not him, but southerners on average there are more people with dark hair and eyes in the south, sardinians do tend to be small, and both tend to be generally kind of hairier, and somewhat of darker skin tone (tho this might be due to being exposed to harsher summers)

sardinia is a very isolated island for obvious reasons and i have no idea about them, but unless you cherrypick people from south tirol you simply cannot tell northerners and southerners apart

I might not be able to pick 1 northener and 1 southerner apart, but if you give me 2 groups of 50 people each, one having only northeners and one having only southerners, I could very easily tell which group is which

Kek, implying you can actually progress a marxist state beyond pseudo communist dictatorship.

the feasibility of communism advancing from a dictatorship to a stateless commune is irrelevant to the point that what fucked eastern europe up was being under a regressive dictatorship, and not the ideology the state party (pretended) to adhere to

kill yourself trotsky

It's your anecdote vs genetic studies by professionals. There are significant cultural and genetic differences between the regions.

im not even a commie lol

>cultural
surely
>genetic
maybe with the kraut regions

are people here aware that something named central italy exist?
or the professors here even believe that Tuscany is the north?

Dude I've got two words for you: Cavalli Sforza.

literally why would you make this post

I have the impression that some people here don't even know the boundaries and think that the North ends in Rome

and this is relevant to the discussion about north vs. south in Italy because?
I mean ffs, even we italians have the north vs south meme, benvenuti al sud/benvenuti al nord, rings a bell?

ok so where do you think they believe Tuscany belongs to?