Alternate History

Tell me about your alternate history autism.
I don't care if it makes sense or not, just share how you imagine different versions of history, and maybe we can debate it.
I'll start with one alternate version of history that imagine in which the Byzantine Empire doesn't fall. What follows is essentially the same thing that happened with the rest of history - a medditeranean empire centered around Anatolia is established, there are wars with Russia, WW1 involvement with Germany, Cold War allignment with NATO, etc. -, the difference being that, through history, what we called Turkey would be called Byzantine Empire/Republic, its capital called Constantinople, it would be an Orthodox-Christian nation, composed of a mix of Medditeranean and Slavic ethnicities, speaking some language related to Greek and Russian. And no Armenian genocide by the way.

>assuming the rest of world history would go the same way just with added byzantine empire

What is butterfly effect

I don't know where that flag comes from, but I have an urge to colonize it and ensure the populace largely subsists on a single crop

Post the worst high-effort alt history out there

Christ, what's with all this neutral territory. Don't the great powers care about oil in central Asia.

>butterfly effect
Brain worked too hard. Stop using logic.

Can we discuss the effects of a Mexico that didn't suffer constant infighting/invasion? What would Mexico be like if it hadn't been taken by Spain from the start? What would it be like if everything followed our history up until independence, at which point it wouldn't be plagued with internal strife? Could Mexico have been a modern Mayan/Aztec republic? Or a prosperous Mexico free of cartels and poverty?

r8

butterflying away the Ottoman empire has huge effects for world history.

For one it would make the Habsburg empire much stronger, which would dominate central Europe more frequently than France.

Also lack of control of the Middle-East by one power has unforeseen consequences.

Maybe Egypt gets colonised by France earlier.

Also, Russia wouldn't fight the Byzantines, quite the contrary they would be allies against the other great powers.

What do you mean?

At one point Euros will make contact with South America, and some form of conquest gets triggered anyway.

The biggest catalyst for the fall of the pre-Columbian civilizations wasn't just the difference in technology, but disease.

>No American revolution
>East US remains a British colony
>Even more English colonists move to Eastern Canada to aid in driving the French out.
>Political stagnation leads to Native American government, French+Spanish colonization of the western and southern Americas.
>The American-Spanish initiate war with the Japanese.
>Spanish btfo
>Chinese become industrialized
>THey invade Korea and Japan, leading to colonization.
>Chinese go to war with the Dutch. The Germans join as allies to the dutch, and so do the English.
>China defeated in great battle
>Chinese state is reduced in size, as westerners colonize China, forming a dutch pro-european colony near China.
>English eastcoast of America separates and becomes its own commonwealth nation, eventually leading up to an overall revolution and balkanization of the colonies, the division being between canada and the US (because of French occupation). The French invade Southern New-England, leading Northern New England to invade Quebec, Newbrunswick and take over the west, meeting Japanese colonists and Native Americans.

It makes sense from a geographic point of view.

i made this one


i got told it was pretty terrible though

ama i guess

What happened between 1900 and 1920?

>there is a timeline where allied forces attacked Nazi Germany in 1938 and war ended in 1939
Hold me lads

iirc (i made this ages ago)

Britain debates intervention in ww1 slightly longer. France loses at the marne, Paris falls.

France signs armistice, Russia eventually is destroyed and dissolved into German satellites and a weak empire.

Italian and Austrian relations worsen over their rejection of honoring the tripartitite pact, Austria is reorganized into a federation style government.

Italy breaks into civil war, Austrians occupy Venice.

Italy annexes Korea in the 1880s for its coal deposits.

Carthage never falls and instead hannibal destorys rome
I have no idea what would happen other than the germanic tribes not copying the romans,christianity not becoming a thing, a long with latin not being a thing making diplomacy even harder to do

US independence day is not on the 7/4/1776, but on 10/10/1777, simply because I like that date much better.
The Constitution has 10 articles instead of 7. And there are 20 ammendments rather than 27. But it's the same thing in practical terms.
Slavery is abolished from day one and there are no racist laws ever (this actually means much less black people, since most blacks came to the US after it became independente as a result of the slave trade, it means no BLM or affirmative action programs, and it means more Asian and European immigration, the kinds of immigration that would make America even better on the long term).
The War of 1812 is a complete victory for the United States of America and Canada is fully annexed.
The Mexican-American War results in a complete victory and the United States annexes more parts of Mexico (namely, the northern region as south as Baja California, including Baja itself). The latinos in that region are deported to what is left of Mexico and the territory that has been annexed by the United States from Mexico is settled by West European and Japanese immigrants.
The US annexes Cuba and the Bahamas, the locals being deported to wherever and the islands are settled by Western European and Japanese immigrants.
With all the additions of territories, the US would be divided into 100 States.
With a slightly different Constitution, this means there would be 1000 representatives and 100 senators.
Speaking of the Constitution, American democracy would me more transparent and efficient, it would be a true democracy, or at least "truerer" than it is now.
There is no Civil War, since slavery has been abolished from day one. The Southern States (and so the USA as a whole) would be much more developed as a whole. Instead, the US goes to war with some other whatever nation to add another victory to its list of achievements.
9/11 is prevented.
Democrats never dared to touch the 2nd Ammendment.
That's what I would change about history.

Background: As I'm sure many of you know, Germany attempted to support an uprising in Ireland in 1916. The German government sent a ship, the Aud, with 20,000 captured Russian Mosin Nagant rifles, 5 machine guns and several million rounds of ammunition. When the Aud reached the coast of Ireland, there was no one there to receive the weapons. The ship was sunk by the Royal Navy and Sir Roger Casement (the liaison between the Irish rebel movement and the German government, who arrived concurrently via U-boat) was captured and later executed.

The reasons for why there was no one there to receive the weapons are somewhat complicated, but essentially there were disagreements between O'Neill and Pearse (the rebel leaders) and the uprising was postponed to the following Sunday (the Aud arrived on the Friday). Pearse, one of the leaders, sent a telegram to Berlin telling them to bring the weapons on Sunday instead of Friday. But there was no way of relaying this information the crew of the Aud as the ship did not have a wireless receiver in order to avoid detection by the Royal Navy.

I wonder what would've happened if the rebels received those weapons. Let's say Pearse and O'Neill agree to have the uprising on Friday as originally planned, and they have men ready to receive the weapons. Would the 1916 Rising have happened on a much larger scale, diverting British resources from the Western Front as the Germans had hoped?

Furthermore, had all of this happened and the Germans somehow won the war, what would the situation in Ireland be like? Would it be a republic with Pearse as president, or a monarchy with Joachim I as king of Ireland? The latter was a possibility suggested by the Germans and entertained to a large degree by Pearse (something not many Irish people are aware of). Prinz Joachim was seen as a good choice because he did not speak English, and thus could be taught Irish instead.

Since this is the dedicated autism thread. R8 my proposal for 1900 Europe, assuming I have magic omnipotence.

1 nice false flag
2 THERE IS A REASON WHY SLAVERY WASN'T ABOLISHED DAY 1
3. America winning the war of 1812 is impossible
4. If america somehow annexed both mexico and canada the european major powers would have seen us as a bigger threat and probably team up to bring us to our knees

8/8 because the U.S. owns the Baja Peninsula
A E S T H E T I C

Maybe thats why there is a neutral zone. Trade would still work

I would pay to watch a war between world powers and the United States. Just try to imagine it. Soldiers all over the world - from Germany, Italy, Britain, France, Russia, Arabia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Brazil, China, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, Iran, India, Spain, Greece, Turkey, Israel, all disembarking by the millions in America, and we beat them all. Not only through strenght - of course, 90% of them would be killed in action, but 10% of them (which still means millions) would drop their weapons, their uniforms and join America. They would happily be part of America, fight for the American Dream, start a farm, a business and be happy. It would be simply epic.
I will ignore everything else you said because it was unamerican.

I had an idea for an alternate history series. What if, after the American Revolution, a bunch of British loyalists escaped to South Africa, where they set up a slaveholding society modeled off of Sparta in the same way that the US was modeled off of Athens and the Roman Republic, and they ended up being America's antagonists in the Cold War instead of the Russians, and also every single female in their society is canonically bisexual and really, really hot and they have lots of hot lesbian sex with each other because all the men are too busy having hot BSDM rape sex with the hot female slaves hnnnnnnnng ng ng ng

All of this will be graphically depicted in the novels, of course.

Bah, nobody cares about Mexicoland.

is that an American colony in southern italy

Why is southern Italy independent? Makes sense though desu.

Press x to doubt

In the 1920s and 1930s, the United States of America begins to see more advantages in alligning itself to Germany and Japan than to Britain and France.

Japan could provide an excellent trade partner, exporting cheap raw materials across the Pacific once its plan of conquest was completed. Across the Pacific Ocean, there would be a lot of peaceful trade of rubber, wood, steel and other materials for American oil. Japan and America could also trade industrial goods between each others.

Germany is strategically positioned in the center of Europe, making it an influent ally in European affairs. Britain and France are sandwhiched between North America and Germany. It is also an industrial power that could trade goods with the United States.

British and French colonies in Africa and the Americas could be relatively easily taken by the United States. Colonies like South Africa, Nigeria and so on. While Germany was doing the dirty work in France, Britain and North Africa, as well as holding off the Soviet Union, the US could detach at least part of its Armed Forces to take over European colonies in Latin America and Subsaharan Africa.

On top of this, there is strong pressure from German-Americans, Italian-Americans and Japanese-Americans to form stronger bonds with their nations of origin; as well as a growing awareness by American politicians that the German-Japanese ideas of, freedom of peoples and national unity are much closer to the American ideas than the Franco-British ideas of colonialism and imperialism.

America signs the Tripartite Pact with Germany and Japan. The Axis becomes the USA, Germany and Japan (with the secondary Axis members like Italy or Finland). They fight together through WW2 against Britain, France, the Soviet Union and China.

They win.

The world is launched into an era of science, technology, innovation, wealth, prosperity, freedom, justice, equality.

By the year 2000, the Earth is a perfect place.

if the byzzies stayed around they would have probably not been in anatolia, they would have most likely been pushed into greece + constantinople with a standstill with the ottomans in the straights

if the byzantines survived they would have been a buffer state and an austrian puppet forever after the habsburgs rose to power, and then eventually collapse into... greece but not turked greece

Another thing - if the Byzzies never fell, there'd be less impetus for the Latins to search for alternate routes to trading with the East through exploration. This would affect exploration of the New World.

exactly, it still would have happened as the ottomans became dominant on the silk road, as the byzantines no longer had the pontic or control over the straight, i would say that colonization would be put back by 50ish years

>holy

>mongol

>empire

you didnt have that idea at all, dont lie, feral scum

>literally a giant band of roaming asian crusaders slaughtering the pagans in asia

dddXXXxxxD

An idea based on the idea from this thread.

>Ternate, Tidore, Makassar, Majapahit, etc. start interacting with the Aboriginals in the Northern Territory earlier than in our timeline, centuries before European contact
>Rice farming and other technologies spread to the northern tip of the continent, rice kingdoms form
>Aboriginals of the area adopt a syncretic Hindu-influenced religion
>Assuming minimal butterflies to Europe, the Brits still come to Australia, and still colonise New South Wales
>But while most of the continent is colonised easily, the rice kingdoms of the north have been unified by some strong leader
>The British have to actually wage war on this entity to fully secure their hold on the continent, much in the style of the Zulu War
>As Australia moves towards independence and post-colonialism, this history gives all Aboriginals in Australia a sense of "we was kangs and shit", even the ones who lived in the easily-colonised and non-agrarian rest of the continent
>An independence movement forms in the Northern Territory at whatever time decolonisation gets popular elsewhere in this timeline, augmented by Aboriginals from elsewhere in the continent moving to the Northern Territory to help
>In a compromise agreement, they end up staying part of Australia as a special autonomous region, like Tibet in China or the native-goverened parts of the US

Kingdom of Two Sicilies was a GOAT state and their development was stunted by the northern-centric unification

I just like imagining colonising a little uninhabited archipelago far south.
Right now, my pacing-daydream involves a man bringing many people who speak various Celtic languages down to a small archipelago(pretty much a bit over twice the size of the Falklands, and a bit further northeast) and how these communities developed, united in sustaining their individuality, with no major affect on the world.

Imperial Japan then takes it away, because what the fuck are the spaghetti niggers going to do about it?

No, I didn't. I was curious whether anybody would get the reference, though. Last time I dropped one on here nobody did!

I bought the last 2 books in that series in a used bookstore and when I plopped them on the counter, the owner looked at the cover art, read the author's name, looked at me, and said "... really, man?"

His imagination is seriously shit

rate

biggest differences
Norway got the PU and formed a Norse Union withot denmark
Denmark got SH
Lithuania is now Belorussia-Lithuania
Papal states "unified" italy as the Italian Papal Republic
SnP still around
Austria never lost venezia

Italy and Russia strike an alliance based on Russia's need for warm water in the Far East and Italy's need for coal. Russo-Jspanese War becomes Russo-Italo-Japanese War and kicks off some years earlier.

why do people like Tricolour flags? Its great for like 2-3 countries but they get old.

>without Denmark
yuck
>Schleswig-Holstein
ok
>Lithuania change
ok
>Papal States unify Italy
YUCK
>those giant United Low Countries
hahaha
>Super Portugal
cool
>presumably Byzantines still rule Constantinople somehow
hahaha

Easy ID from a distance. Flags were originally created to ID armies. If you had a flag like that of a modern country like Brazil's flag for a country in the 19th and 18th centuries, nobody would be able to see what the flag is exactly from a distance, it would be so blurry.

>Tunisian-Albanian empire
>Basque Gascogne
>Lithuania is about 10% Lithaunian
>Rusyns annexed to Ukraine for no reason
>Bessarabia given to Romania for no reason
>Bulgaria given Thrace for some reason
>Gorani genocided by Albanians
>Finland gets 90% Russian provinces
>Independent Baleares
meh/10

i was thinking for constantinople more or less the american mandate

albania and tunisia are slightly off, shold be different colors, ms paint failed me with colors

And Japan still wins because it was impossible for a second rate European power to fight an industrialized country on the other side of the world.

Unified Ireland. 10/10

Italy would have probably been more industrialized in this timeline due to having total control over Korea's natural resources.

That's idiotic. What, they're going to be building a merchant marine fleet the size of Great Britain's so they can travel to the opposite side of the world to get some coal? There's a point of diminishing returns here.

no, literaly a cluterfuck of unstable post-mongol empires, vasals and semi autonomus kingdoms and city states with five main religions, stretching from the alps to allaska and from the north pole to sri lankha, with buddhist monks acting as a scribe buerocracy and catholic monks doing the same in christian lands

it basicaly holds all oldworld holy citties and 2/3 of all world holy sites in its territory so you bet pilgrimages are a huge deal, and so are religious wars

the clergy keeps the thing together by projecting the idea of a great reign of peace and prosperity and deifying or sanctifying this or that khan or king, technology and science are developed here and there like bohemia or japan

as long as intercontinental trade keeps being as lucrative as it has shere selfinterest and greed keep the conglomerate cooperating, but manicheans are a constant problem as they metatsased into a heresy both for catholic and mahayana dogmas and have a silly habit of starting uprisings and even pull crap like mass nonviolent resistances, which are always annoying to clean up

so basically the HRE, but multireligious and an absolute clusterfuck that is at constant conflit with itself but is uninvadable because no one wants to fuck with the giant clusterfuck of loosely allied semi-states stretching from one side of the world to the other?

actually kinda really fuckin neato

Alternate history threads piss me off very much.

There's too many of them, and they mostly deal with fantasy, rather than realistic scenarios. I wouldn't even want them then, though.
Why not post them over at ?

>having ketchup, mayonnaise and mustard as your flag

>civil war in china
>commies lose
A nationalist China is formally created in the fifties. There is a Chinese Emperor as divine head of state, a nationalist Constitution, and the three powers. The Emperor is merely a figurehead. Most of the power remains with some sort of prime minister (but with a cooler, Chinese name for that role), and the legislative branch which would be made of congressmen who would be called mandarins. Capital would be in the geographical center of Core China, around Chongqing. Manchuria and Xijian would be released as nations. China would be allied to Mongolia, Manchuria, Korea, Japan and Xijian in this day.

>worldwide, everyone under one God (Christian God)
>no public sex
>no public nudity
>no pornography
>no masturbation
>obedience to God, the ultimate being
>faggots either getting treated or killed
>if you manage to masturbate, your hands will get cut off
>if you manage to have premarital sex, you will be castrated
>if people manage to make pornography, the works will be destroyed and the creators will be killed
>no niggers, mudslimes and other degenerates
>money rules

That flag is aesthetic as fuck

The final years of the 13th century was a volatile period in the history of Poland, with numerous princelings vying for power in the land divided for over 150 years. By the year 1295 there two main players; the first was Vaclav, duke of Bohemia, a foreigner who managed to seize control over the south-eastern portion of Poland (on the map it's the area inside the thick black border). Vaclav's main rival was Premysl, a native duke ruling from Poznan. When Premysl inherited Pomerania in 1294, his domain extended all the way to the Baltic coast (vanilla coloured area on the map).
In 1296 Premysl was assassinated, his heritage became strongly contested because he was the last male in his branch of the family. Local nobility accepted as their new ruler duke Ladislaw, whose lands were adjacent to the east, but who had virtually no rights to inherit after Premysl.
Meanwhile the rightful heir to those vast lands was Premysl's sole daughter, princess Rixa, 7 at the time of her father's death. She was betrothed to Otto, a young margrave of Brandenburg, and everything that we know suggests that she left Poland for Brandenburg already during Premysl's lifetime.
Otto and his father were planning to push Rixa's claims to her father's lands, but they needed to wait for their own sake at least until she was old enough to be wed to Otto, which was after her 12th birthday, on 1st September 1300. Meanwhile they were building alliances with neighboring Saxon and Wendic princes, and trying to bring polish magnates to their side.
Alas, Otto died like a bitch somewhere in 1299 or 1300, we don't exactly know, anywayit was before the marriage could have taken place. The alternative scenario is, what would happen, if Otto lived longer, and by the beginning of 14th century the family of the margraves of Brandenburg managed to obtain Premysl's inheritance all the way to the banks of Vistula and the shores of the Baltic Sea....

>Mao comes to power
>Lays the blueprints for the Great Leap Forward that aren't fuckin' stupid and doomed to fail
>Proper industrialization, no backyard steel
>Four Pests campaign never happens, no famines
>Maoist China isn't a hellish shithole to live in because of it
>Maoist China falls in 1960 and the KMT takes back the mainland, propelling Sun Yat-Sen to Lenin levels of cult of personality

>Lenin leads for three decades before dying
>Stalin comes to power after
>Forced collectivization was fairer to farmers but gulags and shit still enforced
>Soviet Union falls in 1975

>Same cases with all the other failed communist states except no Khmer Rouge shit happens in Cambodia at all

>Communism goes down in history as just some obscure and deeply flawed political movement with the same popularity as some obscure movement that's rarely ever discussed, like the Falangists or the Distributists
>Communism dies in obscurity, no SJW liberalcucks championing communism for the sake of looking edgy
>Communism has very little advocates besides a handful of weirdo radicals on the Internet that no one takes seriously

>Mussolini never takes part in colonial campaigns and minds his own business in Italy without partnering with Hitler
>Goes down in history as a somewhat controversial political leader with eccentric ideas

>Scotland doesn't become the UK's bitch

>And no Armenian genocide by the way.
Why do you say that? Are you implying such a thing ever happened?

>By the year 2000, the Earth is a perfect place.

Wrong, America still exists.

International trade and seafaring. Exchange of ideas and goods between the Americas involving Egypt/Rome/Polynesia.

Underwater caves in Mexico filled with skeletal remains that locals regard in fear and the vanishing of some American Civs suggest a genocidal event.

Aztec sacrifice religion mimics Abrahamic ideas of sacrifice and is a byproduct of international seafaring

Large reptiles existed recently due to dragons written and documented by Greece , Marco Polo , Romans and the Chinese.

Dinosaurs died for a multitude of reasons. Cold weather because they were cold blooded and reptiles don't migrate suggests they either hibernated or died when it got cold.
Lack of paternal instinct among reptiles suggest they probably ate their own young. Being so large demanded a volume of food that became unavailable. Like pandas , poor sex drive , long gestation cycles with high failure rate.

They are nice colors.

Is there any alternative history fiction written about what would have happened if the cuban missle crisis didn't fly so good?

The further back you go, the more changes there will be in the future. The Eastern Roman Empire couldn't just survive and not affect the rest of the world. It would have an impact which would mean there would be no WW1 and no NATO, at least not in any form similar to the historical concepts.

Again, you have to look at the bigger picture. First of all, you need a very radical change to allow for surviving native states in modern Mexico and secondly, they would form anything but Mexico since Mexico is a colonial state formed from the territories of New Spain.

The geopolitics doesn't make much sense, but they've done a good job with the setting aside from that.

All my dreams in alt history revolve around a United ireland being buddies with England and dismantling Germany before giving their clay to poles and French people.

Why does no one fucking know why Colombus went to the west Indies

Who /kaiserreich/ here? One of the best balances between viable alt history and fantasy

greater Finland best Finland

>liking a game that doesn't have the desired border changes
We were just talking about this in /gsg/ you dumb liqourposter

...

>obedience to God
>money rules

choose one

...

...

Italy is completely forgoten

THE AMERICAN continued ww2 against the soviet union with their new found superweapon. After the soviet union the americans continued to push out the communists in china' thus erradicating communism forever.
This would nean no vietnam no cambodia no taiwan no north korea no cuba no angola no somalia no afghanistan. Basically all conflicts since ww2 could have been avoided and i belive that there would be world peace if that americans just pushed on

>Adolf Hitler has a stroke in 1942
>more control shifted to his generals
>Heer is given the go-ahead to use Sarin and Tabun gas
>Paulus breaks out of Stalingrad with the majority of his army
>Moscow & Leningrad fall by 1944
>Russia annexed to the Urals, Reichskomissariaten set up
>D-Day failed since the war on the Ostfront was over
>In 1946, Germany launches an all-out invasion of Britain
>they're practically running on fumes, but somehow get enough men across the Channel that they negotiate a surrender
>they launch an invasion of America
>America essentially gets a status quo ante bellum with them in 1949

>it's now 1969
>the world was carved up by the Axis
>Germany implemented Generalplan Ost, less than 10k Jews left in Europe
>everything's going to shit though
>Hitler's on his deathbed, the generals are struggling for power
>rising unemployment, student protests across the Reich
>Soviet raids into RK Ostland are becoming more and more common
>Italy might actually peacefully transition to democracy and start decolonizing Africa
>Japanese Indonesia and most of China are under martial law
>the US and the British exiles in Canada are high on revanchism and gearing up for war

Ottoman empire conquers europe and from there on the world while it under civil pressure drafts a constitution and introduces a parlaiment where everyone has equal representation.
At the end we live happily ever after till colonization of space is possible.

>Westralia

There was an alt-history novel a while back where the Germans manage to negotiate peace with Britain and fight the USSR to a stalemate.

Then the US gets enough Peacemakers and rains nuclear fire down onto the Reich.

>Aboriginal zulu war in Arnhem

Oh dear lord.

...

Greeks and Sassanid Persians never fight each other to exhaustion and instead team up to BTFO the Arabian peninsula and convert them all to Zoroastrianism or Orthodox Christianity, stopping Pisslam in its tracks.

Dat donut Romania

What books desu?

>Japan could provide an excellent trade partner, exporting cheap raw materials across the Pacific once its plan of conquest was completed.
No it couldn't, it actually had to import everything because the logistics of the territories it was conquering all universally sucked so fucking hard.

>germany strategically located
>British and French colonies easy pickings
OR or, hear me out here, or us americans could NOT be retarded and let them all fight against each other (with aid we generously provide) and once they're all fucked up and bankrupt, swoop in kick everyones ass and then give them loans to rebuild the continent they fucked up with our moenies and weapons on the condition they let their colonies go. So that they all become our bitch and we dominate the fuck out of the following trade routes.

All of them.

Because fuck the British empire

R-r-rule britannia amirite?

Who has the strongest navy now bitch?

Why?

>Heer is given the go-ahead to use Sarin and Tabun gas
And in retalliation the whole of germany is blanketed in gas by allied bombers

This. It's the perfect balance to Florida

>>D-Day failed since the war on the Ostfront was over
We could have taken Germany solo

>Basically all conflicts since ww2 could have been avoided
And replaced with entirely new conflicts

Maybe a capitalist Republic of China gets all fucked up on credit.

Bad autism. Better autism is that the Ottoman empire existed as usual, died as usual, the difference being that Ataturks' rebellion was put down really hard, and the Greeks were given the Aegean back.

Kaisereich is always fun
>Germany wins WW1
>Suddenly commies
>President MacArthur
>Mega Canada

Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.