Mexican National Identity

Because the intellectuals who influenced Mexican culture were socialists who hated European civilization.

Gee I don't know, would you rather look more fondly on the culture of your people who lived in your homeland since time immemorial, or the culture of a bunch of allah-akbars that invaded a while ago and whose influence is dwindling in the modern world?

It is though. Even the spanish you mexicans speak has nahuatl ingrained in it's words and the large use of sizing up adjectives in words. Mesoamerican languages are still spoken by millions of Mexicans. The foods you eat are a mixture of spanish, French and indigenous cuisine. Most mexicans you can just tell by their appearance are primarily of indigenous except maybe in the north. Remember also that the Aztecs are only one indigenous civilization. Mexico had hundreds of ethnicities.
It's part of their ancestry. If you are of nahua descent in central mexico chances are you have aztec ancestors. Some may be mixtec, purepecha, tarahumara or whatever. So it's not wewuzing if it's true. You could just as easily say mexicans are larping being spanish. Just because the trend is recent doesn't negate these facts. The spanish occupation was only a few hundred years anyway compared to thousands of years of history. By this logic spaniards are larping as europeans who are really just moors.

>mesoamericans weren't religious loons themselves

Lol.

Mixed are still indians my friend. Do mixed black people stop being black? Obama who's half white is still a black man.

99 percent of the language is iberian in origin. The cuisine argument is lol worthy. Are Japanese Portuguese too? As for ancestry it has already been demonstrated most mestizos have predominantly European ancestry. Not mesoamerican.

Just face it Pedro. It's a larp and a lie. It was invented by people who hated Spain and Europe and used as a wedge to justify irredentism against America.

If you went back one hundred years and asked a mestizo if he was a native American he would have laughed at you. There's nothing organic about this bullshit you faggots pull at all.

Well, you got to realize that the Spanish era is over, Mexico and every other latin country has now until the end of civilization to diverge culturally from Spain, and that the Spanish culture was added on top of already existing indigenous cultures.

So as time goes on, they are becoming less and less Spanish and more just themselves. Eventually they will not be Spanish at all, the languages might actually be mutually unintelligible at that point.

>A few regional wars compared to the conquest of a whole continent is the same.
Even counting human sacrifices which weren't that high it is still insignificant compared to the damage and religious fervor spaniards had.

Fuck off Pedro. There's nothing aztec about you.

The Spanish conquered an entire continent because they could. The aztecs didn't not out of any moral choice but because they lacked the ability to project power beyond tormenting their nearest neighbors.

>was added on top of already existing indigenous cultures.

t. Cesar chavez.

There is absolutely nothing in contemporary Latin American mainstream culture that is mesoamerican in any meaningful way. That's not an exaggeration. Your languages, names, religions, holidays, music etc is all overwhelmingly European.

Because identifying with an indian would guarantee worst treatment back then. Theres a reason the anti pulque propaganda pushed by german immigrants who couldn't sell their beers was successful. They literally are their ancestors though. They have enough to reclaim their indigenous if they'd like to. In Cuba they are doing the same. I don't understand why it's so controversial really has your mind gotten so cucked by spain? Really if you are going to build nationalist sentiment best to go with the roots. Going with the invaders whom your people had no connection to 500 years ago has no foundation. And this only works if you wipe out nearly all the natives like they did in north america and replace with a new population.

>your people

The bulk of the Mexican genome is from Spain. Numerous genetic studies have shown this.

But please. Continue larping.

>roots

We have already established your roots have nothing to do with mesoamerica.

Consider that modern day Greece has far more of a claim to lineage from ancient Greece than Mexicans do from aztecs. Yet Greeks still get mocked for being over zealous about it. Mexican by contrast have no real tangible connection.

I honestly don't know why any non-Spaniards would associate with Spaniards, they are a different people that live in a different land. They are literally not the same and will continue to get different from each other as time goes on.

Castilian sounds fine to them, but to New Worlders, Spaniards sound like they talk with a gay lisp. Apparently Brazillians think the Portuguese are a bunch of dumb-asses.

African contributed to much of latin americas music.

North Brazil is a shithole of epic proportions. Who cares what they think.

spain and portugal contributed to much of african music.

Mexico is a country with 130 million people, and about 50 million mexian-americans.
central mexico, although embracing of its indigenous past also fully embraces it's spanish heritage, the bajio is very spanish, and the north although more white is a cultural wasteland.
I think Mexico is more spanish than spain desu, in Spain they are so ready to embrace European stuff that they forget to relate to Latin Americans, and try to emulate the shitty parts of french or British culture.
Mexico doesn't generally do the we wuz tlatoanis, there are people who do, but generally the culture is about being mixed since the 1920s.

Why did you specify North Brazil? Are the Southern Brazilians more white-ish, is that why?

You are aware that nobody outside of Latin America considers people from Latin America to be white, right? Especially not Brazil.

Not trying to be /pol/, I'm just saying they have their own identity and attempting top be 'white' from latin America just sounds like aping another people out of some sort of inferiority complex, its not healthy.

Most likely because (((intellectuals))) wanted to shill for communism so they LARPed as natives to create the imperialist-victim association with Spain in popular cultural consciousness.

>*continued

Oh wait, you Are you OP, and the same person who posted this? Huh, I guess that settles it, you are a Latin American trying to be a European because of an inferiority complex.

It actually started with right wing nationalists.

Never got this. Why do Mexicans pretend they're native to Mexico? Mexicans shouldn't get told to go back to Mexico, they should go back to Spain

...

Might as well tell americans to go back to europe.

T. Panista from mitofago

>making fun of Mexicans for embracing a native religion.

You know the fastest growing religion in the world is a folk religion cult native to Mexico called 'Nuestra Señora de la Santa Muerte'.

ITT: buttmad derechairos.

Are there any mesoamerican neo-pagans?

A few. The lacandon maya are continuing pagans. They even see jesus christ as the son of some foreigner god who trades and brings disease and is currently trying to steal the sun. You can think if the dun like a title like the crown. As for neo pagans there are some reconstructionists. Most however mix it with christianity. In Guatemala some shamans will begin and close a prayer to the rain (chak) with a christian one before invoking an ancient spirit or god. Kind of as a way to enter that world fir a moment away from the eyes of the christian god.

*sun

>Reeee I'm not some filthy Ch*Cano peasant I'm 1488% pure Iberian Mexico is whiiiite

This

>Because the Spaniards only contributed to their identity
Mexicans, even mestizos, derive a significant portion of their ancestry from the spaniards. They're mutts, even pure amerindians are rare, most of the native tribes aren't even aztec either.

Purity doesn't matter. It's the culture you practice.

>The Spanish conquered an entire continent because they could.
And they could because their technological advantage allowed them to defeat great armies with few men.

>The aztecs didn't not because they lacked the ability to project power
They could, but they would have required to far more men than the Spanish and supplying and reinforcing is not as easy when you lack horses.

>They agreed to work at it viribus et posse, and began at once to divide the task between them, and I must say that they worked so hard, and with such good will, that in less than four days they constructed a fine bridge, over which the whole of the men and horses passed. So solidly built it was, that I have no doubt it will stand for upwards of ten years without breaking —unless it is burnt down — being formed by upwards of one thousand beams, the smallest of which was as thick round as a man's body, and measured nine or ten fathoms in length, without counting a great quantity of lighter timber that was used as planks. And I can assure your Majesty that I do not believe there is a man in existence capable of explaining in a satisfactory manner the dexterity which these lords of Tenochtitlan, and the Indians under them, displayed in constructing the said bridge: I can only sav that it is the most wonderful thing that ever was seen.
- Cortes to Charles V, about his expedition to present day Honduras, 1500 km away from the Aztec supply lines

I highly doubt anyone's going to wind up with excessive language divergence in the current age. Before, it was somewhat common due to lack of fast communication (See Texas German and Texas Czech, you can use both to talk to Europeans, but some of the vocabulary is different), but now, the tendancy is for languages to try and remain similar to facilitate communication.

I think it's more likely, barring a breakdown of communication, that we'll move closer and closer to a single vocabulary with only rules and sentence structure being different at some point.

>Legit know a 70 year old lady who dumps food at a road corner out in the country and dances while chanting in a nonsense language.

That's about the only one who I could say takes that sort of thing seriously though. And it's really just a collection of folklore she acts on.

Believe it or not many Northern Mexicans unironically belive this. They call themselves Hispanistas. Curiously they also have the greatest drug cartel violence in the country aside from michoacan and guerrero.

I know it firsthand; my middle and high schools were full of buttflustered norteños who thought along Brazillian lines.

.

The Aztec/Mayan/Yaqui/etc. was the identity of the most part of the mexican population (mainly indigenous). The elite kept identifying with Spain after the emancipation.

The movement "indigenismo" was political trickery created after the 1910 revolution to absorbe the indigenous population into the capitalist system and european culture. The exaltation of the Aztec and Mayan empire was a way of consolidating a Nation, which as we know, is crucial for the bourgeois agenda (creating a national market and jurisdiction). But this exaltation always talked about the past and of superficial traits, never on the ideology of these cultures which contradicted the idea of capitalism.

This wasn't, of course, planned ahead in a secret reptilian meeting, but it represented the ideas of the time (of an elite with a voice, at least). The "founder" of indigenismo, Gamio, didn't exactly have bad intentions when he talked about keeping the good indigenous traditions, and getting rid of the bad ones; and when he said that indigenous people weren't inherently dumb so they could embrace contemprary culture. But this implicated the keeping of superficial traditions and the dissapearing of everything else (as demonstrated by genocides and severe represion against indigenous communities, which continue to these days).

When we did socialism and wanted brownie points for free gibs.

DEJAD

Fuck off morenazi, and take your SEP bullshit with you.

Spain ruled over Mexico longer than the Aztec empire existed

>The spanish occupation was only a few hundred years anyway compared to thousands of years of history.
There was basically no history outside of the Mayans in Mexico. The Aztec empire lasted less than the presence of Spain in Mexico

Fuck off gringo. Just fuck off. I am a proud aztec. I am a proud shitcano. I worship Cesar chavez and quezacotl. Die gringo

>religious fervor spaniards had.
The inquisotion in 300 years killed a total of 60 people in New Spain and Peru. The Aztecs in one month sacrificed more people than that

Mexicans speak Spanish,have Spanish surnames,they eat mostly Spanish dishes they are catholic and celebrate the same holidays as Spaniards even the more obscure ones. How are they closer culturally to Aztecs?

DELETE THIS GRINGO. DELETE IT NOW!

To be fair, Spanish surnames like Fernandez and Rodrigez have a visigothic origin but that does not make the Spaniards Germanic now does it?

Spain only has thatand some lone words from the Visigoths. Mexican culture is mostly Spanish

Azteck culture is pretty metall.
I don't blame them for preferring that to some generic latin culture

Azteck culture is pretty much a copy of the previous mesoamerican cultures so no that culture has lived longer than the spaniard invadors has

>Mexican culture is mostly Spanish

In the same way plastic paddies from Boston are Irish.

WE

Maybe but it is way closer to Spanish culture than to Aztec culture by any means

>We are Aztec ese

i'm not mexican tho

>posting pics of buildings built by the occupiers
>proving anything

Oh yeah Mexican architecture of the XIX century was Aztec as fuck holmes. We aztecs ese

Yeah, but the whole point of identifying with the aztecs (and others) is more of rediscovering a local identity rather than just following somebody else in looking at who to be.

I don't get the sense that anybody wants to reject Spanish heritage so much as just accept that they are more than just Spaniard transplants and that they have an indigenous past to look at as well.

Mexico is Spain. It never was. But it is obvious that their culture is more Spanish than Native by any fucking means.

>Mexico is not Spain
I made a mistake

>rediscovering

It's literally making shit up ex nihilo. This isn't some national rediscovery movement like the ones in Europe where they at least had some tangible connection to their predecessors. This is LARPing, plain and simple.

Two anons who don't understand how nationalism works, I guess.

>don't understand how nationalism works

Let's look at it by comparison then.

Greek nationalism of the 18th and 19th centuries:

>Identified with their actual religion
>Identified with their actual ancestors (Byzantines)
>Could speak the language and read the literature of their ancestors

etc.

Mexican Nationalism

>Based on association with Spain until 1960s
>Commies come along in 1960s and say Europeans are bad and natives are good because muh noble savage victims of European imperialism
>No religious or linguistic connection to Aztecs, and only the slightest genetic connection
>Shitcanos lap it up
>Take it to the US

>Identified with their actual religion

Nope. Christianity is middle-eastern.

>Identified with their actual ancestors (Byzantines)

Still nope, that was a cosmopolitan empire forged by Latins. Like calling the Ptolemies native Egyptians.

>Could speak the language and read the literature of their ancestors

Nope yet again, Classical Greek is not the same as modern Greek. Too different.

>Based on association with Spain until 1960s

The cuckoldry ran deep.

>Commies come along in 1960s and say Europeans are bad and natives are good because muh noble savage victims of European imperialism

Mexicans are not Europeans. Doesn't matter who started saying it.

>No religious or linguistic connection to Aztecs, and only the slightest genetic connection
>only the slightest genetic connection

Not white, never will be.

Japs used european architecture too, dosen't make them european

It is not just architecture you can look at And you couldn't tell me if it was happening on thr Spanish or Mexican Guatemala. Most Mexican dishes are just Spanish dishes using Mexican ingredients and so on. Mexico is closer to Spain culturally than to the natives. It is just obvious.

>Nope. Christianity is middle-eastern.

What language was the New Testament written in? Who were the most prominent early Church Fathers? Buddhism may have originated in Northern India but it now has a distinctively East Asian character, likewise for Orthodox Christianity and Greek culture.

>Still nope, that was a cosmopolitan empire

After Heraclius it wasn't though.

>The cuckoldry ran deep.

More like there wasn't a state propaganda machine to pump them full of indigenismo shit so they naturally identified with organic aspects of culture like the language they spoke, the names they bore and so on.

>Mexicans are not Europeans. Doesn't matter who started saying it.

They are literally more European than they are indigenous.

>A 2006 study conducted by Mexico's National Institute of Genomic Medicine (INMEGEN), which genotyped 104 samples, reported that mestizo Mexicans are 58.96% European, 35.05% "Asian" (primarily Amerindian), and 5.03% Other.

>What language was the New Testament written in? Who were the most prominent early Church Fathers? Buddhism may have originated in Northern India but it now has a distinctively East Asian character, likewise for Orthodox Christianity and Greek culture.

So you just undermined your own fucking point then here Catholicism is an indigenous Indian religion as much as Christianity is in indigenous Greek religion.

>What language was the New Testament written in?

It could have been written in moon runes for all it matters.

>They are literally more European than they are indigenous.

1/3rd native sounds native enough to explore that part of their heritage. Again nobodies rejecting Spanish heritage, but Mexicans are not the same people as a group of people with a gay lisp across the Atlantic from over 200 years ago.

A lisp is an speech impediment.Not being able to pronounce θ is a lisp not the other way around.English also has the θ sound

I'm not saying they litterally have a lisp, its just that to a new World person, European Spanish sounds really really gay.

Nothing against gay people of coarse, but they also have that stereotypical way of talking.

>So you just undermined your own fucking point then here

How?

>Catholicism is an indigenous Indian religion as much as Christianity is in indigenous Greek religion.

Who said that it was an indigenous Greek religion?

>It could have been written in moon runes for all it matters.

No, if it were written in Chinese it would be extremely relevant.

>1/3rd native sounds native enough to explore that part of their heritage.

Most shitcanos believe they are more Aztec than European.

>European Spanish sounds really really gay.

And your Spanish sounds like garbled shit skin speak, you fucking ungrateful mud.

Now get back to your LARPing or narco-trafficking.

>How?
>Who said that it was an indigenous Greek religion?

Eh, just confused with what you meant when you said "Identified with their actual religion".

>No, if it were written in Chinese it would be extremely relevant.

Not according to the beliefs of said religion.

/3rd native sounds native enough to explore that part of their heritage.
>Most shitcanos believe they are more Aztec than European.

Does it actually matter what the blood ratio is? Nevermind that it varies from person to person.

U mad.

Also, I'm an English speaker so nice assumption.

No, it actually was Cuba who did it.

Why would you want to be Iberian, those guys were the least cultured of the western Europeans that gave the least scientific and cultural achievements. A backwater.

If it were the French I might understand.

Herr kapellemeister, more rock'n'roll!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=sGER1ratQyI

>Why would you want to be Iberian
They are culturally Spanish
>If it were the French
France is the historical definition of shit.The most populated country in Europe by far that achieved nothing but chimp outs until an Italian manlet sent waves of French in all directions which caused a demographic collapsed.After they lost their demographic adantage they got BTFO constantly.Who the fuck would want to be that pathetic?

Yeah, because a bunch of Spanish people with 10% native heritage suddenly deciding in the 60s they wuz Aztecs is pretty hilarious

Why are you so obsessed with this?

>10%
More like 50.If you go Mexico is pretty clear that they don't look like Spaniards and are way more mixed.
Because France sucks.It is like the retarded bully at school that got BTFO constantly and when he moved to highschool and wasn't the big guy anymore was stomped by literally anyone

Oh, I thought you were this guy Why are you obsessed with trying to paint Mexicans as Spaniards?

>white people
>culture

>Why are you obsessed with trying to paint Mexicans as Spaniards?

The inferiority complex mentioned above I bet. In a place like Mexico where a race based class system existed with Spaniards at the top, being in a civilization today described as Mestizo must seem for some of lighter skin as being called inferior. So that same people looking at native roots must also seem like deliberately becoming inferior on purpose.

But the reality is, Mexico as a whole is a mestizo nation, with a lot to do with pre-spanish blood.

A hundred replies later and we've yet to see any sort of demonstration of a tangible connection between contemporary Mexican and mesoamerican culture.

But feelz > realz

>continued

There must be several layers to this. First of all Spaniards born in Europe were considered above Spaniards born in the Americas. So even the white people in Mexico might be sensitive to being considered just 'dirty colonials' and even more so being lumped in with the 'brown' mexicans, and so they might Trump up Spanish heritage to try and nullify that perception.

2nd, Spanish speakers are not considered white in America, even if they are lily white skinned, they are not considered Europeans, ever. So if any individual with light skin in Mexico who associates with European heritage, that must further make them defensive.

3rd, Spaniards are a Mediterranean people and thus many are olive skinned and not white, some clearly have Moorish blood too, especially in the south. So its silly to try and build an identity off of 'whiteness' from the Spanish and other Mediterraneans. It doesn't do anything when Spaniards were not fully white to begin with.

For example, latinos were considered 'colored' back in the Jim crow days, Mexicans would have to ride in the back of the bus.

>3rd, Spaniards are a Mediterranean people and thus many are olive skinned and not white, some clearly have Moorish blood too, especially in the south. So its silly to try and build an identity off of 'whiteness' from the Spanish and other Mediterraneans. It doesn't do anything when Spaniards were not fully white to begin with.

Absolute nonsense. Most Spanish are white. Nor does having olive skin mean you aren't white.

Mexcrement should stick to their own ersatz version of Iberian culture rather than trying to analyze actual Iberian culture, they understand nothing.