Is Charlemagne the spiritual father of France or Germany ?

His is the father of modern Europe

this, he's the a father of all the brown area

Howdy, germanic servants.

prometheus-delft.org/internet_tijdschrift/Karel de Grote.html
translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.prometheus-delft.org/internet_tijdschrift/Karel%20de%20Grote.html

Neither.

Both the French and Germans tried to connect to Charlemagne in romantic political foundation myths, but factually neither France nor Germany has a lot to do with the Carolingian Empire.

France. Germans are bastards.

He is more importantly the father of Western civilization. The West started with the Franks.

France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Liechtenstein, Belgium, The Netherlands

basically western Europe with the exceptions of England and Italy and maybe Spain

That snownigger barbarian LARPer isn't the father of my region. Venice was never touched by snowniggers again after the Ostrogoths.

Yeah venice is sui generis. Adjacent to Western Europe, but not really a part of it culturally or politically.

thank god that arabs kicked the snowniggers out of my country

Yeah, it's complex to say the least. The merovech tribe came from the east of belgium but they settled and reached their peak in france. Clovis is probably the most famous merovingian and his reign led to the formation of west francia, east francia, lombardy, etc. Salic law is a bitch and it took Charlemang to reunify the splintwring kingdoms. Then the carolingians split again and there you have the beginning of a distinct culture between proto-french and proto-germans. Although the french united much faster while the germans remained in HRE limbo for centuries to come until based bismarck officially put an end to all those shenanigans.

>shitaly

>the pastaniggers bow down to charlemagne

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Nicephori

No, I'm Venetian from southern Padova.

>snowniggers try to invade Venice
>can't because they have no navy
>lol I didn't want it anyway
>tries to negotiate a treaty and fails
>based Venice remains independent and survives for 1000 years

The Venetian language is more aesthetically pleasing than standard Italian too. Has some harder consonants in there to make it sound less "lazy" to my ear.

>byzantine daddy submits to charlemagne
>mainland veneto is ruled by the carolingians
>venice itself effectively reduced to client state
>b-b-btfo!
top kek

>mainland veneto

Do you realize it took Venice several centuries to expand into that whole region? Mainland Veneto = Marquisate of Verona. That's different. I'm not from that region anyway. I don't give a shit.

Say that to my face and not online and see what happens

You should've died with the rest of your barbarian brothers in the Venetian swamps:

>Charlemagne sought to subdue the city to his own rule. He ordered the Pope to expel the Venetians from the Pentapolis along the Adriatic coast,[16] and Charlemagne's own son Pepin of Italy, king of the Lombards under the authority of his father, embarked on a siege of Venice itself. This, however, proved a costly failure. The siege lasted six months, with Pepin's army ravaged by the diseases of the local swamps and eventually forced to withdraw (810). A few months later, Pepin himself died, apparently as a result of a disease contracted there. In the aftermath, an agreement between Charlemagne and the Byzantine Emperor Nicephorus in 814 recognized Venice as Byzantine territory and granted the city trading rights along the Adriatic coast.

/thread

howdy

Fuck carloman, he was a gay

Can't be Germany. He didn't destroy Europe.

He would not know either of them.

They are not his.

isn't Disney going to buy Venice or something?

luxembourg is just a bizzare accident of the HRE. Netherlands and Belgium are creations of Perfidious Albion in order to weaken the continent and guarantee that the continental system of napoleon couldn't be tried again.

AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>By 1796, the Republic of Venice could no longer defend itself since its war fleet numbered only four galleys and seven galliots. In spring 1796, Piedmont fell and the Austrians were beaten from Montenotte to Lodi. The army under Bonaparte crossed the frontiers of neutral Venice in pursuit of the enemy. By the end of the year, the French troops were occupying the Venetian state up to the Adige. Vicenza, Cadore and Friuli were held by the Austrians.

>After Napoleon's ultimatum, Doge Ludovico Manin surrendered unconditionally on 12 May, and abdicated himself, while the Major Council declared the end of the republic. According to Bonaparte's orders, the public powers passed to a provisional municipality under the French military governor. On 17 October, France and Austria signed the Treaty of Campo Formio, agreeing the sharing of all the territory of the ancient republic

Pathetic. At least Byzantium put up a last fight, Austrians and Frogs were just walking through your territory and the Doge just gave up like a cuck.

Also, Liechtenstein

>Is Charlemagne the spiritual father of France or Germany ?
yes

Charlemagne is the father of France.
Charles the first is the father of Germany.

Franks are the true master race of Europe
>brought peace to Western Europe
>introduced the feudal system
>held back the Muslim expansion into Europe
>brought Europe out of barbarity and laid the foundations of modern Western culture
>reintroduced Roman law

/thread

And here we go again

HE KNEW NEITHER GERMANY NOR FRANCE. HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW EUROPE. HE WAS NOTHING MORE BUT EMPEROR OF ROME AND KING OF THE FRANKS, THE LOMBARDS ETC ETC ETC, BUT NOT THE "FATHER OF EUROPE", OR OF GERMANY, OR OF SOME OTHER BULLSHIT YOU JUST FUCKING MADE UP.

pls leave schizo tripfag

Nice argument, faglord. I also never used a tripcode in my entire life.